Sony: Raised R&D Costs Related to PS4 Launch

[partridge]

Time will tell. And who said anything about being forced to buy it? Where did that come from. I'm a launch day buyer of the PS3, when PS4 comes along I'll get it, no worries there, but I don't expect to see it this side of 2013.

I'm not expecting Project Cafe to be anything more than a slightly better PS3/360. I don't expect it to give Sony or MS anything to worry about. It's about Nintendo playing catch up now that Wii sales are declining. They've saturated that market, now they need to get back in the business of offering their gamers something more than Mario and Zelda; they need real 3rd party support.

They won't get that by expecting Activision or EA to plough even more millions into next gen versions of CoD, etc.

[xtop]

Originally Posted by partridge

Time will tell.

But I'm not expecting Project Cafe to be anything more than a slightly better PS3/360. I don't expect it to give Sony or MS anything to worry about. It's about Nintendo playing catch up now that Wii sales are declining. They've saturated that market, now they need to get back in the business of offering their gamers something more than Mario and Zelda; they need real 3rd party support.

They won't get that by expecting Activision or EA to plough even more millions into next gen versions of CoD, etc.

i'm confused, why do you think an under powered nintendo console isn't something to be scared of? and why on earth would sony give them a 2 year head start?

[Wingman1977]

All I'm going to say is that the successor to the ps3 won't see the shelves anywhere in 2012. I can see it in Japan in spring 2013 with a fall/holiday 2013 release in the US. Also, Sony has been working on it much longer than they are saying. MS has been working on the successor to the 360 since 2006.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by partridge

Time will tell. And who said anything about being forced to buy it? Where did that come from. I'm a launch day buyer of the PS3, when PS4 comes along I'll get it, no worries there, but I don't expect to see it this side of 2013.

I'm not expecting Project Cafe to be anything more than a slightly better PS3/360. I don't expect it to give Sony or MS anything to worry about. It's about Nintendo playing catch up now that Wii sales are declining. They've saturated that market, now they need to get back in the business of offering their gamers something more than Mario and Zelda; they need real 3rd party support.

They won't get that by expecting Activision or EA to plough even more millions into next gen versions of CoD, etc.

You're talking about the games sector like it is static market and games will sell the same every year without any innovation. Seriously, they don't. CoD is something of an exception in that it has massive brand recognition, but look at Madden or PES, they were huge last gen, but this gen the sales have been declining because publishers release the same game with a new coat of paint every year.

Café is powerful and cheap enough that it will probably become the platform of choice for developers if sales are good and they see no movement on next gen from Sony/MS. That would be a disaster for both companies as a relatively powerful and cheap Nintendo console with full third party support and the stable of Nintendo games would be a formidable competitor. The Wii won this gen without third party support, now imagine how bad it would be for Sony/MS is they'd had it from the start of the gen.

This is why Nintendo are jumping next gen first, they saw the Wii crashed because they had no third party support, and launching a more powerful, easy to code for console early is the best way to get third party support. Sony and MS have to respond to this or they will be steamrolled.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by Maximus

You're talking about the games sector like it is static market and games will sell the same every year without any innovation. Seriously, they don't. CoD is something of an exception in that it has massive brand recognition, but look at Madden or PES, they were huge last gen, but this gen the sales have been declining because publishers release the same game with a new coat of paint every year.

Café is powerful and cheap enough that it will probably become the platform of choice for developers if sales are good and they see no movement on next gen from Sony/MS. That would be a disaster for both companies as a relatively powerful and cheap Nintendo console with full third party support and the stable of Nintendo games would be a formidable competitor. The Wii won this gen without third party support, now imagine how bad it would be for Sony/MS is they'd had it from the start of the gen.

This is why Nintendo are jumping next gen first, they saw the Wii crashed because they had no third party support, and launching a more powerful, easy to code for console early is the best way to get third party support. Sony and MS have to respond to this or they will be steamrolled.

They will but that doesn't mean that we'll see their consoles in 2012.

[Maximus]

I think it does at least Sony will launch in Japan as a show of good faith. If the third parties think the consoles aren't coming until 2014 why bother supporting them over the Café?

PS2 beat Dreamcast because it had all the third party support and PS1 was awesome so gamers waited for it. PS4 has none of these luxuries. It has a smaller userbase to follow than PS2 and no guarantee of third party support like PS3

[fsavoie]

Originally Posted by Maximus

You're talking about the games sector like it is static market and games will sell the same every year without any innovation. Seriously, they don't. CoD is something of an exception in that it has massive brand recognition, but look at Madden or PES, they were huge last gen, but this gen the sales have been declining because publishers release the same game with a new coat of paint every year.

Café is powerful and cheap enough that it will probably become the platform of choice for developers if sales are good and they see no movement on next gen from Sony/MS. That would be a disaster for both companies as a relatively powerful and cheap Nintendo console with full third party support and the stable of Nintendo games would be a formidable competitor. The Wii won this gen without third party support, now imagine how bad it would be for Sony/MS is they'd had it from the start of the gen.

This is why Nintendo are jumping next gen first, they saw the Wii crashed because they had no third party support, and launching a more powerful, easy to code for console early is the best way to get third party support. Sony and MS have to respond to this or they will be steamrolled.

I don't really disagree with you but at the same time, Wii won mainly because they made all non gamer to buy a console. This is amazing to see all my surrounding here that has bought a wii while they usually don't play games much. Now what I wonder is if those "non gamer" will still follow for another console. Hardcore gamer will probably stick with xbox/ps or have both. So unless the next wii is really mind blowing, I'm not sure PS4 will be that affect by it than by the next xbox.

[tarvis]

Sony won't want to lose market share to consumers that would opt to have the same multiplatform games and the next Mario and Zelda. Neither will Microsoft. They don't have the same luxury as consumers to opt for a wait and see approach. Or something something.

[cheaitsjustin]

Debunked.

http://thesilentchief.com/2011/05/27...opment-rumors/

PS4 probably is in development, but apparently Sony meant the NGP when they said "future platform".

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by cheaitsjustin

Debunked.

http://thesilentchief.com/2011/05/27...opment-rumors/

PS4 probably is in development, but apparently Sony meant the NGP when they said "future platform".

That's nothing more than PR trying to save face. The statement doesn't really leave much up for debate.

[Terjyn]

Maybe I just don't get it. It seems to me 3rd party support for this new Nintendo product will be multi-platform with the PS3 and 360. And thoroughly outsold.

Why would 3rd parties start releasing exclusives on Nintendo's new console when it's not much better than the existing hardware of the other guys...and the last three gens have been disasters for Nintendo and "hardcore" 3rd parties?

[master_8ball]

Some more to feed the rumor mill.

Sony Planning to use 16 SPE Cell Processor

[slick1ru2]

The biggest news is the interview that the PS3 is only halfway through its cycle and it being way too early to discuss the PS4 per head of Sony UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...views-part-two

PS3 has "many years to come." Ray Maguire and Ian Livingstone interview – part two
The second part of our chat with the chair and deputy chair of Bafta's video game committee. Today: is the industry being creative enough? March, 15, 2011


This is the part of the interview that pertains to the PS3/PS4.

And as a console manufacturer, how does the constant evolution of technology affect your business? How will you build PlayStation 4 to allow for the creation of new game types?
RM: It's the same conversation as it was for PlayStation 1, 2 and 3. With the amount of money required nowadays to develop and launch a new platform, you have to have a long lifecycle. With PS1, launched in 1995, we ended up with a seven year active lifecycle and a 10 year overall lifecycle. When we set out to invent a new platform, often it's something we can't actually make yet, because technology hasn't got us into a position where we can make silicon that thin, or where we can manage that amount of heat or power.

PlayStation 3 was the classic example – nobody else could create it for us so we had to build a fabrication plant to make it ourselves. And then there's a learning curve of how to use the technology to get the most out of it – so classically at the launch you'll get one or two brilliant games then a lot that struggle to use the power because it's complicated. Right now, we're seeing a lot of the power of PS3 being used so the games are looking great, and that's good for third-party publishers as they start to make good money on the big winners.

Where we go after this is an interesting one. The online side is very interesting and is a big part of our business going forward. But in terms of what sort of technology we'll be using, it's far too early to say yet because we're only half way through the lifecycle of PS3 – there are many years to come on that machine.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

But in terms of what sort of technology we'll be using, it's far too early to say yet because we're only half way through the lifecycle of PS3 – there are many years to come on that machine.[/I]

I can believe many stuff and I don't think we will see the PS4 in 2012 like some do, but if by 1/2 way through the cycle he means that the PS3 will be around until 2016 then I can agree it is likely (but does not tell us when the PS4 will be out), but there is almost no chance the PS4 won't come out before that.

My guess once the Wii2 (depending on capabilities) or 720 are announced we will actually start getting more/real info. Don't forget there is no reason now to push the idea that in a year or two or maybe three the PS4 will come out because all it can do is hurt sales until then.

PS that is why he stated that PS1 “ended up with a seven year active lifecycle and a 10 year overall lifecycle”

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I can believe many stuff and I don't think we will see the PS4 in 2012 like some do, but if by 1/2 way through the cycle he means that the PS3 will be around until 2016 then I can agree it is likely (but does not tell us when the PS4 will be out), but there is almost no chance the PS4 won't come out before that.

My guess once the Wii2 (depending on capabilities) or 720 are announced we will actually start getting more/real info. Don't forget there is no reason now to push the idea that in a year or two or maybe three the PS4 will come out because all it can do is hurt sales until then.

PS that is why he stated that PS1 “ended up with a seven year active lifecycle and a 10 year overall lifecycle”

Of course there is going to be product overlap. But what he says means don't hope for the PS4 in the next year or two. They just started making money on the PS3 after losing $4 billion on it. And they will most likely put out a PS4 that will lose money for awhile to keep it in a competitive price point. The PS4 is going to have decade life cycle, so they are going to put as much new state of the art technology in it as possible initially which is expensive initially.

[BluOgre]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

The biggest news is the interview that the PS3 is only halfway through its cycle and it being way too early to discuss the PS4 per head of Sony UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...views-part-two

PS3 has "many years to come." Ray Maguire and Ian Livingstone interview – part two
The second part of our chat with the chair and deputy chair of Bafta's video game committee. Today: is the industry being creative enough? March, 15, 2011


This is the part of the interview that pertains to the PS3/PS4.

And as a console manufacturer, how does the constant evolution of technology affect your business? How will you build PlayStation 4 to allow for the creation of new game types?
RM: It's the same conversation as it was for PlayStation 1, 2 and 3. With the amount of money required nowadays to develop and launch a new platform, you have to have a long lifecycle. With PS1, launched in 1995, we ended up with a seven year active lifecycle and a 10 year overall lifecycle. When we set out to invent a new platform, often it's something we can't actually make yet, because technology hasn't got us into a position where we can make silicon that thin, or where we can manage that amount of heat or power.

PlayStation 3 was the classic example – nobody else could create it for us so we had to build a fabrication plant to make it ourselves. And then there's a learning curve of how to use the technology to get the most out of it – so classically at the launch you'll get one or two brilliant games then a lot that struggle to use the power because it's complicated. Right now, we're seeing a lot of the power of PS3 being used so the games are looking great, and that's good for third-party publishers as they start to make good money on the big winners.

Where we go after this is an interesting one. The online side is very interesting and is a big part of our business going forward. But in terms of what sort of technology we'll be using, it's far too early to say yet because we're only half way through the lifecycle of PS3 – there are many years to come on that machine.

I hope you guys all understand that Sony will deny as long as possible because in their eyes talking about PS4 in any way shape or form takes away potential business from the PS3. You want potential customers thinking of buying the PS3 and not holding off because the PS4 will be released in the next couple of years. Kind of like Nintendo releasing a new gameboy but at the same time announcing the 3DS being released next year.......rookie mistake when you are competing with yourself.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by BluOgre

I hope you guys all understand that Sony will deny as long as possible because in their eyes talking about PS4 in any way shape or form takes away potential business from the PS3. You want potential customers thinking of buying the PS3 and not holding off because the PS4 will be released in the next couple of years. Kind of like Nintendo releasing a new gameboy but at the same time announcing the 3DS being released next year.......rookie mistake when you are competing with yourself.

Just like I hope you realize that Sony is in a much worse financial state now vs when it was developing the PS3.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...opment-for-PS4

Sony CFO Masaru Kato indicated that when Sony was developing the PS3, seeking outside partners for chip manufacture wasn't really feasible. However, the situation for the PS4 was different and the idea of investing so much money upfront into the company's next console was unthinkable.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...yStation_4.php


According to Japanese business newspaper Nikkei (as translated by Andriasang), Kato told investors today that the company would not have the same level of financial investment in its future products as it did with the PlayStation 3.

"It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3," he said, allegedly in response to a question about whether the games division would retain its profitability.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Maybe I just don't get it. It seems to me 3rd party support for this new Nintendo product will be multi-platform with the PS3 and 360. And thoroughly outsold.

Why would 3rd parties start releasing exclusives on Nintendo's new console when it's not much better than the existing hardware of the other guys...and the last three gens have been disasters for Nintendo and "hardcore" 3rd parties?

IMO thats exactly what going to happen.

Cafe will have the best looking version of mutiplatform games but sell the least. Obviously due to PS360's installed base, and the fanbase for games like COD are on those systems.

And the wii sold close to 90 million consoles mainly because people who never played games before bought it. My friends mom has a wii. I don't think she''ll be buying a cafe.

[Whatstreet]

I am not surprised that Sony has started a development budget for a new console. Computational integrated circuits are about to make a leap in performance due to the further miniaturization of the transistor. Intel will release Ivy Bridge next year which will be much faster and require less power. Nvidia will release Kepler which will also have the same benefits.

Yes, the PS3 CPU and GPU will not be even close to the same league as a gaming PC built next year. The consoles must be updated or they will hold back software development because the major titles must sell in the console market. So, if the software is dumbed down for consoles there will be apathy for all this new hardware development that can bring us new dazzling effects. No one wants that.

Could the next CPU be a multi core ARM processor? That would be one more kick in the shins for Intel.

[BluPlay]

Originally Posted by Whatstreet

Could the next CPU be a multi core ARM processor? That would be one more kick in the shins for Intel.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't a revision of the Cell, Sony bought a Cell plant for just over $800 million recently. Unless they wanted to fit out that factory for some other purpose?