Ben-Hur (1959) (Ultimate Collector's Edition)

[little flower]

I pre-ordered this last night. I got a free rental copy of the movie on 'Amazon Instant Video' since I pre-ordered the Blu-ray. I can watch the free rental copy right now.

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by yojoeski

If the UK version is only one disc, then why is the UK getting the movie on one disc and the US is getting it split? The pics we've seen of the US UCE clearly show 3 discs and 2 of the discs say "1959 Part 1" and "1959 Part 2".

Well, Amazon UK is listing it as 1 disc, but any Amazon spec is questionable, so I'll should just call it "movie only, non fluff" release.

Where are you seeing a pic of the discs that say Part 1 & part 2? The pics in the listing here shows 3 discs all labeled Ben Hur, but are not large enough that I can see anything more. The movie is 212 minutes, borderline for fitting on on 50GB disc with decent bitrate and not overly compressed.

[AeroK]

Originally Posted by crow2k5

I pre ordered it, this will be a blind buy for me.

I envy you. Chariot race=

[yojoeski]

Originally Posted by The Duke

Well, Amazon UK is listing it as 1 disc, but any Amazon spec is questionable, so I'll should just call it "movie only, non fluff" release.

Where are you seeing a pic of the discs that say Part 1 & part 2? The pics in the listing here shows 3 discs all labeled Ben Hur, but are not large enough that I can see anything more. The movie is 212 minutes, borderline for fitting on on 50GB disc with decent bitrate and not overly compressed.

Go to its page and where it says "front" and "back" click on back and it will show a clear picture of the UCE's contents as well as the discs themselves which the labels are easily readable.

And no, this release isn't borderline for fitting on one disc. There is no excuse for this being on 2 discs but you can bet Warner will do it to simply raise the price that much more. Seven Samurai is only 6 minutes shorter and it looks spectacular on one disc and with Ben Hur being in it's 2.75 aspect ratio, there will be even more black area in the frame which uses less space for compression.

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by yojoeski

Go to its page and where it says "front" and "back" click on back and it will show a clear picture of the UCE's contents as well as the discs themselves which the labels are easily readable.

Gotcha, I see it now. Thanks.

And no, this release isn't borderline for fitting on one disc. There is no excuse for this being on 2 discs but you can bet Warner will do it to simply raise the price that much more. Seven Samurai is only 6 minutes shorter and it looks spectacular on one disc and with Ben Hur being in it's 2.75 aspect ratio, there will be even more black area in the frame which uses less space for compression.

Well, I'd rather see them do it right and give it plenty of room to breathe rather than like some of their previous mediocre releases of shorter movies squeezed on to a 25GB disc, or longer movies squeezed on to 1 50GB disc. And, at this point we don't know both discs are 50GB. Actually, if they do a separate transfer and put the UK release on 1 50GB disc and the US on 2 50GB discs, I'd have to reconsider buying the UK release-but that is highly unlikely, Warner likes to do one transfer and use it worldwide.

And I am glad to see they're using 3 BDs, I'm so sick of their releases with the movie on blu-ray and everything else on DVD. I'm not buying the LOTR EE until I can buy the movies on blu-ray by themselves, without all those extra features on DVD that I've already bought once.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by yojoeski

Go to its page and where it says "front" and "back" click on back and it will show a clear picture of the UCE's contents as well as the discs themselves which the labels are easily readable.

And no, this release isn't borderline for fitting on one disc. There is no excuse for this being on 2 discs but you can bet Warner will do it to simply raise the price that much more. Seven Samurai is only 6 minutes shorter and it looks spectacular on one disc and with Ben Hur being in it's 2.75 aspect ratio, there will be even more black area in the frame which uses less space for compression.

It's not just time, it's the level of detail and the difference from pixel to pixel both within one frame and between one frame and the next frame. AFAIK, color films generally take up more room than black and white films. A crowd shot in the arena will take up lots of room because almost every pixel is different.

Studios do not place movies on two discs to raise the price, especially on a release that has lots of physical extras and special packaging, which raises the price anyway. If it weren't on two discs, than everyone would be complaining that Warner sacrificed the quality to squeeze it onto one to save costs.

If you wonder why studios ignore sites like this one, it's because eventually, even the well-meaning production people there figure they can't win. No matter what they do, people complain. I can tell you from experience in a similar circumstance that it becomes depressing. This is why truly innovative companies like Apple never do focus groups and never ask people what they want. They just go out and produce the best products they know how to make.

I know it's really hard for a couch potato to stand up after two hours, walk over to the BD player and switch discs, but they should exert their muscles and try so they don't turn into that human character in Wall-E. I doubt most of the people complaining about this actually go all 222 minutes without a bathroom or snack break anyway.

[Douglas R]

Originally Posted by The Duke

And I'm sure Warner loves you for thinking that way and wishes more folks would think like you. I think the price is an insult and a rip-off. Throw in a couple bucks worth of junk and inflate the price 3x? Shakes head and pre-orders the movie only UK release.

I love these big box sets and I don't consider books to be "junk" - that sort of printed material is expensive to produce. Of course, I appreciate that many people would sooner just have the film at a cheaper price but these classic films clearly do not sell in huge numbers and if the only way to make them profitable is to release them as a box set, then that makes perfect business sense.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's not just time, it's the level of detail and the difference from pixel to pixel both within one frame and between one frame and the next frame. AFAIK, color films generally take up more room than black and white films. A crowd shot in the arena will take up lots of room because almost every pixel is different.

Studios do not place movies on two discs to raise the price, especially on a release that has lots of physical extras and special packaging, which raises the price anyway. If it weren't on two discs, than everyone would be complaining that Warner sacrificed the quality to squeeze it onto one to save costs.

If you wonder why studios ignore sites like this one, it's because eventually, even the well-meaning production people there figure they can't win. No matter what they do, people complain. I can tell you from experience in a similar circumstance that it becomes depressing. This is why truly innovative companies like Apple never do focus groups and never ask people what they want. They just go out and produce the best products they know how to make.

I know it's really hard for a couch potato to stand up after two hours, walk over to the BD player and switch discs, but they should exert their muscles and try so they don't turn into that human character in Wall-E. I doubt most of the people complaining about this actually go all 222 minutes without a bathroom or snack break anyway.

What is that saying:
"You can please SOME of the people ALL of the time, or ALL of the people SOME of the time".
or maybe it was just simply: Damned if you do, Damned if you don't ;-)

[RBBrittain]

Originally Posted by yojoeski

Go to its page and where it says "front" and "back" click on back and it will show a clear picture of the UCE's contents as well as the discs themselves which the labels are easily readable.

And no, this release isn't borderline for fitting on one disc. There is no excuse for this being on 2 discs but you can bet Warner will do it to simply raise the price that much more. Seven Samurai is only 6 minutes shorter and it looks spectacular on one disc and with Ben Hur being in it's 2.75 aspect ratio, there will be even more black area in the frame which uses less space for compression.

With 2 of the 3 discs devoted to the main film and one to the special features, we're back to it being odds-on that the 1925 silent version is still in SD. Even it they put it in HD alongside the 1959 film on its two discs, they would mention both versions; instead they say "1959 Part 1" and "1959 Part 2".

I still suspect the UK version will contain all 3 discs without the swag (just like GWTW), since the description there says "Ultimate Collector's Edition" but the price is way too low to cover the swag.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by The Duke

And I'm sure Warner loves you for thinking that way and wishes more folks would think like you. I think the price is an insult and a rip-off. Throw in a couple bucks worth of junk and inflate the price 3x? Shakes head and pre-orders the movie only UK release.

[/threadcrap]
My apologies. Had to say it, but I'll only say it once.

Good thing you can import then, that way you don't have to keep complaining about your OPINION.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by The Duke

And I'm sure Warner loves you for thinking that way and wishes more folks would think like you. I think the price is an insult and a rip-off. Throw in a couple bucks worth of junk and inflate the price 3x? Shakes head and pre-orders the movie only UK release.

[/threadcrap]
My apologies. Had to say it, but I'll only say it once.

Does that same logic apply to:
A BMW vs. Toyota Camry
A 5br house vs. a 4br house
Rolex vs. Timex

The list goes on and on, but I'm sure you get the point. What's wrong with someone liking the UCE? I know I'm looking forward to it! Furthermore it's not like it's a doubledip, as this is the first time Ben-Hur has been released on BD. Clearly you're not a 'bells & whistles' kinda guy.
I think $45(could even be less by release) is a great price for everything included. Considering that most 'big hit', or new theatrical release BDs go for $19.99...you're paying a little more than double and you get a great assortment of items. I wish more movies got this sort of treatment.
Hell I'd crap myself if Escape From New York got all this stuff. But that's just me.

[Strevlac]

I don't mind the concept of a box set I just wish so many of these weren't rectangular. I much prefer the route WB went with Citizen Kane (aside from the fact that it's a DVD box set with a bluray thrown in). I want to be able to store these in a bookshelf normally without stacking it on top like some kind of dorky shrine.

[rexinnih]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's not just time, it's the level of detail and the difference from pixel to pixel both within one frame and between one frame and the next frame. AFAIK, color films generally take up more room than black and white films. A crowd shot in the arena will take up lots of room because almost every pixel is different.

Studios do not place movies on two discs to raise the price, especially on a release that has lots of physical extras and special packaging, which raises the price anyway. If it weren't on two discs, than everyone would be complaining that Warner sacrificed the quality to squeeze it onto one to save costs.

If you wonder why studios ignore sites like this one, it's because eventually, even the well-meaning production people there figure they can't win. No matter what they do, people complain. I can tell you from experience in a similar circumstance that it becomes depressing. This is why truly innovative companies like Apple never do focus groups and never ask people what they want. They just go out and produce the best products they know how to make.

I know it's really hard for a couch potato to stand up after two hours, walk over to the BD player and switch discs, but they should exert their muscles and try so they don't turn into that human character in Wall-E. I doubt most of the people complaining about this actually go all 222 minutes without a bathroom or snack break anyway.

Wait a minute. The truth has no reason to be on the Internet!

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Does that same logic apply to:
A BMW vs. Toyota Camry
A 5br house vs. a 4br house
Rolex vs. Timex

The list goes on and on, but I'm sure you get the point. What's wrong with someone liking the UCE? I know I'm looking forward to it! Furthermore it's not like it's a doubledip, as this is the first time Ben-Hur has been released on BD.

Absolutely nothing wrong liking the UCE. When I said "shakes head" I meant I don't get the attraction and they're not for me, never intended it as a put-down against folks who appreciate them. The world would be a very boring place if we all thought alike and I'm glad other folks like things I don't, and just as happy I like things that others don't.

Clearly you're not a 'bells & whistles' kinda guy.
I think $45(could even be less by release) is a great price for everything included. Considering that most 'big hit', or new theatrical release BDs go for $19.99...you're paying a little more than double and you get a great assortment of items. I wish more movies got this sort of treatment.
Hell I'd crap myself if Escape From New York got all this stuff. But that's just me.

I am a bells & whistles kind of guy, in areas that I care about. For a blu-ray, it's the PQ & AQ. I have no use for a big pretty box and assorted trinkets inside. But I hope you enjoy them, I'll just enjoy the movie.

Originally Posted by retablo

Good thing you can import then, that way you don't have to keep complaining about your OPINION.

You quoted my first post in the thread, and I've never posted in any other UCE threads, so your "keep complaining" rings a little hollow.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Does that same logic apply to:
A BMW vs. Toyota Camry
A 5br house vs. a 4br house
Rolex vs. Timex

The list goes on and on, but I'm sure you get the point. What's wrong with someone liking the UCE? I know I'm looking forward to it! Furthermore it's not like it's a doubledip, as this is the first time Ben-Hur has been released on BD. Clearly you're not a 'bells & whistles' kinda guy.
I think $45(could even be less by release) is a great price for everything included. Considering that most 'big hit', or new theatrical release BDs go for $19.99...you're paying a little more than double and you get a great assortment of items. I wish more movies got this sort of treatment.
Hell I'd crap myself if Escape From New York got all this stuff. But that's just me.

Thank you for bringing some common-sense economics to the "studios are ripping us off" crowd.

[Boob-Ray]

There's sound logic to both sides. Some people want a UCE of some films / others don't. And they should offer a cheaper version to satisfy both camps and get more happy customers.

This is one UCE that I do want. Ben Hur and Gone With the Wind represent the grandest of the grandest of Hollywood's grandest. Certain sets, I feel warrant the giddy splurge - and that's my logic. But it shouldn't be the only option - and it probably won't.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

AFAIK, color films generally take up more room than black and white films.

I'm positive that that's true.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Boob-Ray

There's sound logic to both sides. Some people want a UCE of some films / others don't. And they should offer a cheaper version to satisfy both camps and get more happy customers.

This is one UCE that I do want. Ben Hur and Gone With the Wind represent the grandest of the grandest of Hollywood's grandest. Certain sets, I feel warrant the giddy splurge - and that's my logic. But it shouldn't be the only option - and it probably won't.

You hit the nail on the head. I, like you, have been looking forward to this UCE for a long time. As I do with several other films that are among my favorites. Overall though I like when the studio presents the consumer with options: standard movie(lower cost), UCE(higher cost)!
Like anything else in life having options can always be viewed as a good thing!
Obviously from the studio's POV, they will roll out the UCE first, see how that sells then come out with a movie only version(a-la Gone With the Wind, Wizard of Oz, & Sound of Music)
So at the very worst, fans of Ben-Hur that don't want to spend on the UCE would have to wait a little while longer for the scaled down version. A shame, but that's just the way business(especially movie business) has always been conducted.

[thelwig14]

Are we still holding out hope for a disc only release at Target or Best Buy? Or is it big box or bust?

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by thelwig14

Are we still holding out hope for a disc only release at Target or Best Buy? Or is it big box or bust?

Well, the US release doesn't even have a release date yet but the UK movie only release has a date of Sept. 5, so the US will likely release around then. So that's pretty far out for there to be any details of a non-UCE retailer exclusive. Walmart's non-digibook exclusive of The Outlaw Josey Wales was completely stealth - no one knew anything about it until it showed up on shelves on release day this week. Long story short - yes, we're still holding out hope.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by rickah88

You hit the nail on the head. I, like you, have been looking forward to this UCE for a long time. As I do with several other films that are among my favorites. Overall though I like when the studio presents the consumer with options: standard movie(lower cost), UCE(higher cost)!
Like anything else in life having options can always be viewed as a good thing!
Obviously from the studio's POV, they will roll out the UCE first, see how that sells then come out with a movie only version(a-la Gone With the Wind, Wizard of Oz, & Sound of Music)
So at the very worst, fans of Ben-Hur that don't want to spend on the UCE would have to wait a little while longer for the scaled down version. A shame, but that's just the way business(especially movie business) has always been conducted.

Or just import it from the UK. That's what I don't get. All of those releases were available as discs-only releases in Europe from the start, and yet people in the US would rather wait until it's given a release there .