The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

No, it's not just an opinion. It's an opinion from someone who is one of the most pre-eminent film restoration experts in the world and is responsible for the restoration of Lawrence of Arabia, Spartacus and The Godfather, among others. He knows of what he speaks.

So his opinion is worth far, far more, than my opinion or your opinion or the opinion of haters, trolls, fanboys or well-intentioned people who actually don't know what they're talking about but know enough to be dangerous. Now if there was a professional mastering technician on here or a professional color timer, I would also value their opinion highly.

Now that doesn't mean you have to buy the set based on his opinion. Obviously, if you think a screenshot that appears to be greenish will kill your enjoyment of the film, don't buy it. But I trust him a lot more than I trust just about anyone else on here. A few frame examples does not a movie make.

I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day, TO ME, it is just one more opinion since how big/little of an issue this is will depend on who you ask and is very subjective (evidence in the fact that RAH hardly even touched the green issue in his review since I am guessing it simply did not bother him or catch his eye). From this approach, yeah he is just one more opinion in my mind and holds no more weight than you, me or anyone else. If you dont agree, thats fine and we can agree to disagree.

[m_burlock]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Of course someone with such low sensitivity to color balance will never ever find anything wrong with the FOTR EE. (Consider yourself lucky if you fall in that camp. )

I must be lucky then!

P.S.
And I actually do have O.C.D.!

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

No, it's not just an opinion. It's an opinion from someone who is one of the most pre-eminent film restoration experts in the world and is responsible for the restoration of Lawrence of Arabia, Spartacus and The Godfather, among others. He knows of what he speaks.

So his opinion is worth far, far more, than my opinion or your opinion or the opinion of haters, trolls, fanboys or well-intentioned people who actually don't know what they're talking about but know enough to be dangerous. Now if there was a professional mastering technician on here or a professional color timer, I would also value their opinion highly.

Now that doesn't mean you have to buy the set based on his opinion. Obviously, if you think a screenshot that appears to be greenish will kill your enjoyment of the film, don't buy it. But I trust him a lot more than I trust just about anyone else on here. A few frame examples does not a movie make.

So if an expert has a differing opinion than me, then I'm supposed to change my opinion because his is more valid than mine? That makes no sense. Just because a professional says they don't mind it doesn't mean that anyone has to. I'm not saying my opinion differs, I'm just saying that opinions are one's own personal views.

A professional food critic may say that Gordon Ramsay makes the best Beef Wellington in the world, but if I don't like Beef Wellington that really doesn't change just b/c one person makes the best...

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Thank you. Main Title is gold.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4862442

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

So if an expert has a differing opinion than me, then I'm supposed to change my opinion because his is more valid than mine? That makes no sense.

It is more valid because he has the experience and education to make a more informed opinion. You don't have to change it, though.

[petmic10]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Great review by Ralph at AVS where he confirms the green coloring and expresses his thoughts on the matter................

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342504

Highlighted some of his thoughts.

Last year’s Blu-ray release of Fellowship of the Ring created quite a stir within the internet community as there were some problematic issues with the quality of its high definition rendering. When it was announced that the release of the Extended Edition was going to contain a new transfer re-mastered from the original 2K digital files everyone breathed a sigh of relief and looked forward to the results. Word was also received that director Peter Jackson and director of photography Andrew Lesnie oversaw the retiming of the film’s color as well although the reasoning for this hadn’t been made clear. It didn’t take long for samples/clips/captures to begin appearing on the internet. Outraged fans/enthusiasts began to complain about the changes in the color and what appeared to be the inordinate application of cyan/green which now had been added where it hadn’t previously been and enhanced to a deleterious point otherwise. There were also complaints about problematic changes to the contrast. Upon receiving the set I examined several sequences that seemed to focus on the complaints. The overall changes in color are readily apparent. Across the board chromatic emphasis is deeper which I personally don’t see as a problem. As it was the film relied heavily on deep greens and bluish hues during certain segments. This newly revised presentation overemphasizes some of those segments and imparts what I would call an unnatural level of cyan/green. Furthermore it has been added to segments where it didn’t originally exist. Comparing this presentation to the Extended Edition DVDs confirms this. I don’t have a problem with the stylized use of mood setting color and in fact this very method (image permeating cyan) is used in The Two Towers (examples can be found in the extended edition DVD/Blu-ray at the beginning of chapters 17, 33, 38). The issue here is the inconsistency of its application and use where it doesn’t seem “logical”. The best example of this comes at the 7:21.00 mark where the scene shifts to the Fellowship as they begin their ascent up the snow covered mountain.

On a whole the film appears a bit darker which negatively impacts the perception of shadow detail during some sequences. Conversely there are many instances where the balance between white and black levels is right on the money which gives the video a pleasingly rich quality. The sequence where the four hobbits hide in the root of the tree, as the dark rider hovers directly above, is a good example. The blend of vivid color, deep black and dynamic contrast coupled with the high level of detail looks incredible. I found the changes in contrast to be noticeable but far from egregious. The same is true of the basic changes in chromatic emphasis/depth. The overdriven cyan/green additions/changes are another matter. The sequences affected are apparent and can be distracting especially when viewing with a critical eye. If what appears herein is the intention of Peter Jackson and Andrew Lesnie so be it. As a fan I would have to say that I disagree with them but keeping it in perspective can put it aside knowing that what we see here is in fact what was intended. If that is not the case then that is another matter. I will update this review should any further information come to light in that regard.

Putting those issues aside I found much to like about this presentation. Unlike the previous Blu-ray release fidelity appears intact as the video delivers rewarding levels of detail that enhances the perception of minutia within the physical features and structural make-up of people and objects onscreen. As previously indicated blacks are deep with mildly compromised delineation that lessens dimension but not overtly so. Colors range from lush and vibrant to sepia toned and earthy to bleakly monochromatic. Sequences that feature prolonged use of uneven light and shading are visually enhanced via warm accents and multi-staged grays. Like the color palette fleshtones shift accordingly to coincide with the mood, lighting and scenic theme. The overall result works perfectly within the film’s narrative construct. Grain is intact and gives this presentation a film like aesthetic that looks terrific in high definition. I saw no signs of unwanted digital manipulation, image degrading artifacts or distracting video noise.

As I alluded to earlier I think it is important to keep this presentation in perspective from an overall point of view. While there are aspects of it that are in question I didn’t find that they adversely affected it as a whole. It is true that I am not crazy about some of the revisions (assuming they are what was intended) but at the end of the day The Fellowship of the ring EE looks head and shoulders above the problematic theatrical cut Blu-ray release.

[Thunderhead]

Right on target ZoetMB!!

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

It is more valid because he has the experience and education to make a more informed opinion. You don't have to change it, though.

I agree, Professional insiders and such, and professional reviewers do have a lot more experience than I do, or many of us on the board. But the point was that Todd has his opinion, and was saying that anyone who reviews these films is a differing opinion than his own, and it seemed like Zoet was telling him that a professional should have more weight than his own opinion in matter of taste. Which is should not.

Me, I PERSONALLY listen to these professional opinions because I KNOW that they have more experience than me. But if I do buy the films, and I end up really not liking the color change when I watch it, I'm not going to say to myself, well Ken, Robert, and Bill all thought it was okay so I'll learn to like it.

Edit: I'm sorry Zoet, I misread some of the stuff that you typed and misinterpreted. Definitely NOT what I initially thought you said. Very well stated. That was my fault.

[petmic10]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4862442

Yuck.

The damn title screen is green too. This has to be a mistake.

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Great review by Ralph at AVS where he confirms the green coloring and expresses his thoughts on the matter................

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342504

Was this an updated or re-up? Or was Ralph's review previously only linked within the LotR thread on AVS?

Originally Posted by Bluballs31

i'm not going to go through 100 plus pages, can anyone tell me if pictures of the US set have been posted. Like someone who actually has it because I just want the films already regardless of any flaws and would like to see the packaging

Here you go, on packaging pics.:

Originally Posted by sutter

"Front" of Box

[Show spoiler]

Opened Box

[Show spoiler]

Front/Art of all 3 cases

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Here's a few more for ya then

Sutter posted some additional screenshots of the set (Box, Cases, discs, etc) in the slipcover thread. It was also confirmed that the BD cases are black.

Open Box, no discs (Map of Middle-Earth)

[Show spoiler]

Spine of Box

[Show spoiler]

Back/Side of Box

[Show spoiler]

Back of the BD Cases

[Show spoiler]

Discs/Inserts

[Show spoiler]

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Was this an updated or re-up? Or was Ralph's review previously only linked within the LotR thread on AVS?




Here you go, on packaging pics.:

He only made comments previously in the LOTR thread over there. This is the first time we are seeing his official review.

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Thank you. Main Title is gold.

End Credit roll is pure white on pure black.

RAH

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4862442

Well someone is incorrect then.

To be far to Mark (MEB), pretty sure the analysis he preformed was on supposedly unaltered image -- though I don't believe we've gotten confirmation on where the source of the image was.

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

He only made comments previously in the LOTR thread over there. This is the first time we are seeing his official review.

Gotcha, I was getting confused because I knew I had read Pott's thoughts/review earlier.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Thank you. Main Title is gold.

End Credit roll is pure white on pure black.

RAH

Robert, any chance you could tell us what color the fade is, when Frodo wakes up in Rivendell?

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Does the set have the stupid time lapse text that was on the TE of FotR?

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4862442

The link is appreciated. It does appear to have soft green lettering.

The image from an actual disc, when played on a properly tuned system, looks nothing like that.

RAH

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Thank you. Main Title is gold.

End Credit roll is pure white on pure black.

RAH

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Ralph, any chance you could tell us what color the fade is, when Frodo wakes up in Rivendell?

Robert Harris is good, damn good, but even he can't channel the spirit of Ralph Potts and communicate through the aether.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

The link is appreciated. It does appear to have soft green lettering.

The image from an actual disc, when played on a properly tuned system, looks nothing like that.

RAH

So are you saying that's an inaccurate capture based on what you've seen? If it is that does change things.

Surely someone else with a disc should be able to grab that frame.

A properly calibrated system won't correct for that green tint if that's what is on the actual disc, a properly calibrated display isn't calibrated to a baseline assuming everything it displays will have an underlying green bias. To tune that out you'd have to calibrate the display for the color timing of this specific release only. It might not be as noticeable for some, but if it's there and that's how it appears that is certainly indicative of an overall green bias. The person who posted that is claiming it's a capture that has not been manipulated. Out of curiosity when you watch the fade-to-white scene when Frodo awakens in Rivendell for the first time how does it appear on your retail disc? Neutral and white/gray as it did before or light green?

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Robert Harris is good, damn good, but even he can't channel the spirit of Ralph Potts.

I already corrected it... but I knew it was too late

That's the problem with trying to combine multiple quotes/responses, you get a little confused in the end.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

I agree, Professional insiders and such, and professional reviewers do have a lot more experience than I do, or many of us on the board. But the point was that Todd has his opinion, and was saying that anyone who reviews these films is a differing opinion than his own, and it seemed like Zoet was telling him that a professional should have more weight than his own opinion in matter of taste. Which is should not.

Right. Me, RAH and you might be sitting in one of our HTs watching FOTG together and all have a different opinion on how bothersome this whole green issue is (since at this point none of us would deny it is there) which would be subjective and I would not put any more weight to one opinion over the other in this case.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Does the set have the stupid time lapse text that was on the TE of FotR?

I'm not clear as to what you mean by that.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

The EE have been shown in theaters... a couple times now, and the most recent was with the new color timing of FotR

My point exactly. The new prints have the new color timing... so how is it a mistake?

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Right. Me, RAH and you might be sitting in one of our HTs watching FOTG together and all have a different opinion on how bothersome this whole green issue is (since at this point none of us would deny it is there) which would be subjective and I would not put any more weight to one opinion over the other in this case.

I just think that a professionals opinion shouldn't be weighted so heavily that one thinks they should just accept it and change their view, is all I was trying to say.