The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Cinemaddict]

Originally Posted by Ugly Pig

I personally don't buy into that line of logic at all (that a slight tint over the title "proves" that it's there for the duration of the movie). I'm just sayin'.

A valid point, but it does strongly indicate that something went wrong with that particular shot. Which makes it seem much more likley that something is wrong with the other shots that look green.

My understanding is that some sections of the film look fantastic, and some sections look weirdly green. How much, I'm not sure.

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Ugly Pig

Following that logic, the blue in my screenshot must surely be "undeniable proof" that a blanket blue tint was imposed across the whole film on the original DVD, in which case; who is to say it was any more "correct" than the new transfer?

I wouldn't use the title as reference for anything.

From comparing these 2 shots it is very obvious that the title was newly inserted into the transfer. Even discounting the difference in color the one in the BD looks (for lack of a better term) much less 'integrated' into the scene. That has nothing to do with the color timing though and I'm certain it would still be the case if the green tint was removed. Actually, the new title looks a lot brighter than the old one relative to the rest of the scene so its original color in this transfer was probably white.

The only thing to go by is the fact that the title is the same unnatural green that has been overlaid over the entire film - and to me that's a clear indicator that it was done rather late in the game.

[Cinemaddict]

Simply put, it appears that: Sometime between the print leaving PJ's "hands" and the Blu-ray being pressed, something weird happened that only affected certain shots. (The FELLOWSHIP title being one of them)

Does that seem like a fair conclusion at this point?

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

Edit: Oh and Roy, pretty sure in general your going to be disappointed with this release. It has been confirmed 100% that there is a new color grade for the BD EE's. The only thing we're left wondering and waiting on, is if the supposed extra green tint is intentional or not.

No, we don't know yet how green would that green push look on our Home Theater setups yet.

But you are right about me most likely ending up disappointed by this release, because even if the green is milder than it looks on the many screen caps, the new color timing has been poorly applied, more like a hazy layer over the entire frame than a real, careful color grading on specific areas of the image. And that has not only affected the overall color palette of the film, but also the light balance to a point that, once again, does not look like a "creative decision" but rather a mistake.

Originally Posted by Velmeran

I wasn't going to touch Roy's post at all until I saw the little PS he added. What value to this thread did it add? It had nothing to do with the overall point of this thread.

You don't have to know it, of course, but English is not my first language, so, most of the times I read my posts after having posted them, I see a lot of mistakes and omissions that I try to fix.

I added that P.S. comment because it was really something that I wanted to address initially and then forgot to. Declaring oneself "part of the industry", so to say, as a way of stating your superior authority, seems quite puerile to me. It was a personal comment towards Retablo because nobody else has done that here, as far as I know.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Ugly Pig

Okay, how come this gets posted over and over again but no one took the time to check if it was actually "pure white" to begin with on the DVD? Hint: It wasn't.



To my eyes, it looks about as green now as it was blue before.

EXACTLY. That's the entire point. Things that were white or bluish-white in the earlier versions are now an ugly light green in the EE version.

Few movies are going to contain any "pure white". But we all perceive a wide spectrum of slightly tinted whites as actually being just white. It could be white with a reddish tint, white with a yellowish tint, white with an orangish tint, etc. and still pretty much look like white.

When I examined various screen shots taken from the theatrical edition Blu-ray, things like snow and the white on a horse's head looked pretty white, but color sampling in Photoshop revealed they were whites (actually, more of a light grey) that were slightly tinted toward blue. They were whites that had the strongest RGB (Red Green Blue) value in the blue spectrum.

Likewise, those same spots and scenes in the screen captures from the extended edition Blu-ray are now whites (light grey) that are tinted green. Their strongest RGB value was in the green spectrum. Only, the green tint in the EE is much stronger than the blue tint in the previous versions. Where the bluish tinted title from the DVD you provided really looks more like a grey with very slight blue tint, the EE version title color looks like a grey with a more overpowering green tint.

Things like snow and other whites will naturally reflect the color of the sky. So, outside, one of the colors that would naturally be found in whites is a tint of blue. Even on a cloudy day, snow will have a certain amount of blue tint to it.

Detecting a blue tint when you look at or photograph snow seems natural because that's how nature works. The sky is BLUE!

What you don't see in nature is snow that is tinted green. And, to make matters worse, the level of green tint we are seeing in these screen shots is substantially more noticeable than the level of blue tinting we see in the previous versions. The green is unnatural AND it's stronger than the previous blue tint.

I have no idea what exact specific color the "The Fellowship Of The Ring" title is supposed to be. All I know is that in the DVD and theatrical Blu-ray editions that title appears to the naked eye as just "white" and in the new EE version that title looks a light putrid green. It has been changed.

The million dollar question: WHY?

Why? If this green tinting has been selectively applied, why on earth change the title too? It doesn't make any sense.

The more logical explanation is that the new green tinting is a mistake.

Mark

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Cinemaddict

Simply put, it appears that: Sometime between the print leaving PJ's hands and the Blu-ray being pressed, something weird happened that only affected certain shots. (The FELLOWSHIP title being one of them)

Does that seem like a fair conclusion at this point?

No, that conclusion is wrong. If you said, 'something weird happened that affected the entire film - each frame of it' - that I would underwrite. Just because the green isn't as noticable in scenes with certain colors does not mean it isn't there.

[Cinemaddict]

PJ has not commented on the final BD encode, has he?

[Velmeran]

Originally Posted by Roy Batty

No, we don't know yet how green would that green push look on our Home Theater setups yet.

But you are right about me most likely ending up disappointed by this release, because even if the green is milder than it looks on the many screen caps, the new color timing has been poorly applied, more like a hazy layer over the entire frame than a real, careful color grading on specific areas of the image. And that has not only affected the overall color palette of the film, but also the light balance to a point that, once again, does not look like a "creative decision" but rather a mistake.

If the green tint overlay truly exists, and is corrected -- but know that there is still a new color grade on the BD's (this has been confirmed by multiple sources) would you still be "upset" (and I put it in quotes because that may not be the best word to use --- basically are you against the film being revised in anyway -- I know Stinky is in that boat, but not upset enough to cancel his order)

Originally Posted by Cinemaddict

PJ has not commented on the final BD encode, has he?

He has not a response from him would do a lot towards ending 1 of the 2 debates floating around in this thread (Ken described the 2 debates very well sometime yesterday), on if the color seen on the BD is what he intended or not.

I'm of the belief (and I don't think I'm alone in this) that don't think we'll get any type of statement until after the 28th.

[Cinemaddict]

Originally Posted by Karl Murks

Just because the green isn't as noticable in scenes with certain colors does not mean it isn't there.

Okay then, how about this:

Sometime between the print leaving PJ's "hands" and the Blu-ray being pressed, a change occurred that is more apparent in some shots than others.

?

[Karl Murks]

Originally Posted by Cinemaddict

Okay then, how about this:

Sometime between the print leaving PJ's "hands" and the Blu-ray being pressed, a change occurred that is more apparent in some shots than others.

?

I have to agree with that one.

[Cinemaddict]

I find the FELLOWSHIP text and end credits to be the most compelling piece of evidence because it is one of the few things in the film that we know should not be the slightest bit green.

Originally Posted by Velmeran

I'm of the belief (and I don't think I'm alone in this) that don't think we'll get any type of statement until after the 28th.

Forgive my ignorance, but has there ever been a similar situation where there was a recall? I find it hard to imagine ever getting a replacement disc for something like this. I could be wrong, but I think the best we can hope for is that the color is quietly fixed for a later release.

[MEB]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

If the green tint overlay truly exists, and is corrected -- but know that there is still a new color grade on the BD's (this has been confirmed by multiple sources) would you still be "upset" (and I put it in quotes because that may not be the best word to use --- basically are you against the film being revised in anyway -- I know Stinky is in that boat, but not upset enough to cancel his order).

I know you didn't direct your question at me, but I'll answer it.

All I care about is that the light green tint that I'm seeing (in video clips and screen shots taken directly from the EE Blu-rays) looks completely unnatural. It looks like crap. The second image below looks HORRIBLE.

Theatrical Blu-ray:


Extended Blu-ray:


Source: http://blubrew.com/2011/06/16/the-fe...ended-edition/

If that unnatural green tint was removed from the movie and all other color timing/color grading changes were made so that the movie appears to follow the laws of nature, I'd be a happy camper.

And, yeah yeah... I realize it is Middle Earth and it's all a bunch of science fiction anyway. But the movie hasn't had this green tint for 10 years and I don't see how ANYONE could have thought it was a good idea to apply it now.

Mark

[gstriftos]

Originally Posted by MEB

Few movies are going to contain any "pure white". But we all perceive a wide spectrum of slightly tinted whites as actually being just white. It could be white with a reddish tint, white with a yellowish tint, white with an orangish tint, etc. and still pretty much look like white.

When I examined various screen shots taken from the theatrical edition Blu-ray, things like snow and the white on a horse's head looked pretty white, but color sampling in Photoshop revealed they were whites (actually, more of a light grey) that were slightly tinted toward blue. They were whites that had the strongest RGB (Red Green Blue) value in the blue spectrum.

Likewise, those same spots and scenes in the screen captures from the extended edition Blu-ray are now whites (light grey) that are tinted green. Their strongest RGB value was in the green spectrum. Only, the green tint in the EE is much stronger than the blue tint in the previous versions. Where the bluish tinted title from the DVD you provided really looks more like a grey with very slight blue tint, the EE version title color looks like a grey with a more overpowering green tint.


Mark

Mark can you please look at the RGB values of this shot:

[Show spoiler]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[nelly_platinum]

Im kinda getting annoyedby all these color pallette discussions,ok we get it theres a green tint lets get over it,buy it or dont buy it,if WB is gonna do replacement or if a new disc will come out to fix it lets leave it till then,how much more can you argue about a pallette we already know exists,its not gonna change anythin,i for one cant wait to watch the EE

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by Velmeran

If the green tint overlay truly exists, and is corrected -- but know that there is still a new color grade on the BD's (this has been confirmed by multiple sources) would you still be "upset" (and I put it in quotes because that may not be the best word to use --- basically are you against the film being revised in anyway -- I know Stinky is in that boat, but not upset enough to cancel his order)

As I have stated before, I am by princciple strongly opposed to any kind of revisionism, but I can always accept some measure of "fine tuning", so to speak.

I understand that's quite a blurry line to tread.But, as an example, this...



I would consider acceptable "fine tuning".

But this...



... or this...

[Show spoiler]

... I would certainly consider that an egregious aberration.

And, sadly, from the many screen caps around, I can't hardly imagine a scenario where that green haze will not be present and strongly apparent on the BDs.

[Idioteque...]

Originally Posted by Roy Batty

As I have stated before, I am by princciple strongly opposed to any kind of revisionism, but I can always accept some measure of "fine tuning", so to speak.

I understand that's quite a blurry line to thread.But, as an example, this...



I would consider acceptable "fine tuning".

But this...



... or this...

[Show spoiler]

... I would certainly consider that an egregious aberration.

And, sadly, from the many screen caps around, I can't hardly imagine a scenario where that green haze will not be present and strongly apparent on the BDs.

And it looks pretty bad in the second pic but not because it's a different color, happens all the time cinematographers opt for a certain color in their films. I don't really care about that, what annoys me is now the film looks dark but I'll keep my order and if this is what Peter Jackson wanted then yeah, I'll live with it. I hated Darren decision to go for grain in Black Swan but it looks terrific but it could have benefited from another look. Same instance here since the reviews have been glowing.

[Illy Scorsese]

Originally Posted by MEB

I know you didn't direct your question at me, but I'll answer it.

All I care about is that the light green tint that I'm seeing (in video clips and screen shots taken directly from the EE Blu-rays) looks completely unnatural. It looks like crap. The second image below looks HORRIBLE.

Theatrical Blu-ray:


Extended Blu-ray:


Source: http://blubrew.com/2011/06/16/the-fe...ended-edition/

If that unnatural green tint was removed from the movie and all other color timing/color grading changes were made so that the movie appears to follow the laws of nature, I'd be a happy camper.

And, yeah yeah... I realize it is Middle Earth and it's all a bunch of science fiction anyway. But the movie hasn't had this green tint for 10 years and I don't see how ANYONE could have thought it was a good idea to apply it now.

Mark

Disgusting...

[beckmen]

Originally Posted by Boone_Carlyle

I really can't think of a single instance, other than this release where snow has been discolored like that. The harry potter films often use color correction, but they have never used them in snow scenes.

The Empire Strikes Back...?

Looking at these screencaps, the blue snow makes me quite angry, but I think I might like the rest of the shots. Or the ones I looked at, at least. Film-makers should really avoid doing this, though...because people are way more apt to freak out over the changes. If you change nothing, there really isn't need for a discussion. It's a safer approach. You're also less likely to look at it a few years down the line and think "What was I smoking?". Whatever. I won't let this stuff affect my purchase decision. What I will let affect it is the cost. I already spent around 60-70 bucks on each of these movies. Movie tickets, 2-disc DVDs, 4-disc EE DVDs. I am not going to buy them again until they are all under 20 bucks. Especially since they were too lazy to even port the features over to Blu-ray discs, and instead just apparently re-printed the Appendices discs I already own.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by beckmen

The Empire Strikes Back...?

I absolutely love the blue ice in ESB.

[PGW]

Originally Posted by Idioteque...

And it looks pretty bad in the second pic but not because it's a different color, happens all the time cinematographers opt for a certain color in their films.

You're talking about an artistic choice applied to individual shots for a certain effect. This is a puke-like green tint which is present on every shot of the film. It's difficult to believe this is an "artistic choice" as opposed to a mastering error.