The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by SleeperAgent

Well the way I see it, they will either come forward and say it's intentional (to save money now) or say it was a mess up and issue a replacement 2 discs for FOTR.

So let's say it's officially "intentional"....it is going to be so much fun
when they alter the colors again for the Ultimate Edition (that's going to be "intentional" again of course)....

[MEB]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Here is the thing. While that scene always had a blue tint to it, it was applied more selectively and looked more natural.

Let's look at the flames in the candles...

This is from the Theatrical Edition:


This is from the Extended Edition Blu Ray:


As you can see in the Theatrical Edition, even though a blue tint was applied, things like flames that should appear orange WERE orange in the original color timing. In the new color timing, surprise surprise, it is green.

How dare you use science and logical analysis to evaluate an image. Don't you know you are supposed to just look at it and say "looks good to me"!



Mark

[frogmort]

I could possibly see Warner trying to push this under the rug, but not Peter Jackson. You know, if this is an error, he is probably much more upset about this than any of us. These are the movies that he will be remembered for, and he put years of his life into making them. With all the stumbling blocks that he's had to overcome, with lawsuits, getting 'The Hobbit' going, and recent surgery for an ulcer, and now this, I really have sympathy for him, but I'm sure he will make it right.

[Scooter1836]

Ken,

I peronally would not call the actions that have been happening as overwhelming evidence.

It is not uncommon for there to be distribution issues especialy in europe.

The wierd posting on Amazon UK is actually common for Amazon when they run out of stock and do not have a date on when they will get copies.

Also I am not suprised at the domestic price drops. That is alsonot uncommon as the release date closes. And to tell you the truth, given that it is the same extra's that are in the DVD set it was really priced too high to begin with.

Now if you have read my posts in the past you realize I have been on the side of staying rational as opposed to one side or the other.

I do not think they would do anything to jeprodize sales at this point. And any type of recall would do just that. Even halting distribution. The disc exchange would be cheaper. We need to remember that hte largest majority of buyers do not read forums and in many cases do not read reviews before purchase.

A deliberate recall or deliberate distribution delay would cause the value of a corrected release to be less profitable since the PR fallout would be horrendous.

Since I do not have the BD's in hand I am not going to judge either way. However with what I have seen and heard my "guess" is that it is intentional and not an error. But that is a my speculative "guess" based on what I see as the evidence.

But like we have said. We need an officlal statement to take the guess work out of this.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I could possibly see Warner trying to push it under the rug, but not Peter Jackson. You know, if this is an error, he is probably much more upset about this than any of us. These are the movies that he will be remembered for, and he put years of his life into making them. With all the stumbling blocks that he's had to overcome, with lawsuits, getting 'The Hobbit' going, and recent surgery for an ulcer, and now this, I really have sympathy for him, but I'm sure he will make it right.

I agree

If it is I am sure he will if it is an error.

And IF it is the reason we have not heard from him is because it is an error, he knows the path of least resistance is to keep WB involved and get them on board. He is smart enough not to burn bridges. Even if it is not an error I would doubt he would make a statement without the WB legal department being involved.

[nazdar]

wow ... glad i got the theatrical bd

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Scooter1836

Even if it is not an error I would doubt he would make a statement without the WB legal department being involved.

He would not need to consult Warner's legal department if he were confirming an intentional change he made as it appears on the final retail disc. He would only need to consult with the studio if he were preparing a statement associated with a replacement program or something connected to a production error. And as you said, it would be more out of professional courtesy than strict obligation.

Originally Posted by Scooter1836

I peronally would not call the actions that have been happening as overwhelming evidence.

To clarify: I don't think any individual piece of the puzzle can or should be called overwhelming evidence. I do think the amount of evidence indicative of an error, and the lack of evidence that points to it being an intentional tint, is rather overwhelming though. If not overwhelming, definitely lop-sided.

Again, the only thing to suggest it's intentional at this point is a vague months-old statement about color-grading changes; changes that are indeed visible on screen, whether or not you factor in the consistent tint that presides over the full film.

I do agree with many of your other points, but for me, it's the combination of all these separate evidences that point to it being an error; I'll be the first to admit no one individual piece of "evidence" is damning. As I said, Jackson's silence strikes me as the most telling. If the tint were intentional, I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't simply confirm the tint is intentional. Sales certainly wouldn't suffer more than they have (not that they've suffered much at all), and it would quickly quell the controversy that's plagued the release.

I also agree that a replacement program is the way to go if it is an error. A recall would be a mess, and I completely understand why Warner and Jackson would be silent on the matter now if they were gearing up for a replacement program in the coming weeks. That's when Jackson's silence on the matter suddenly begins to make sense: after it's paired with the notion that a post-release replacement program is forthcoming.

And let me just say thank you for being rational! It's so much easier to have these discussions when everyone simply states their opinions and addresses each other with some measure of respect

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by MEB

How dare you use science and logical analysis to evaluate an image. Don't you know you are supposed to just look at it and say "looks good to me"!

I understand that's how most people probably judge things like this. It was my mistake thinking forums like these were for film enthusiasts and fans of the Blu Ray medium which would tend to veer more toward the technical aspects of a release than mere eyeballing and PR explanations.

[MEB]

Since I've posted another round of "screenshot evidence" I guess I better also post this (to keep some people off of my back):

I fully intend to evaluate the FOTR EE Blu-ray image quality with my own eyes, directly from the discs. A friend is expecting his set on Tuesday. I plan to go to his place to check it out on Wednesday. I will try REALLY hard to like what I see. I WANT to like it. I'd like to buy this set as I've never seen the extended editions of any of the movies.

Mark

[MEB]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

I understand that's how most people probably judge things like this. It was my mistake thinking forums like these were for film enthusiasts and fans of the Blu Ray medium which would tend to veer more toward the technical aspects of a release than mere eyeballing and PR explanations.

Ouch!

Mark

[jonmoz]

Originally Posted by nazdar

wow ... glad i got the theatrical bd

Me too as the fellowship is nowhere near as bad as some people say.o.k a little more sharpness would be welcome as long as it does not come with the altered color palatte.

For me the extended editions would be nice as I have never seen them,but as I live in the U.k and only ever buy U.s discs it's too much hassle to buy the set only to realise Warner made a mistake.

After watching the theatrical blu-ray of the fellowship on friday all I can say is the color palette suits the moves fairytale like tone,rather than the second two movies much more darker feel.

If the new green tint turns out to be what Jackson intended then I will buy the set and just get used to it,and as many people have pointed out it's not as noticable as some screenshots and internet videos point out,however it's still there and as many people know that when you know something is there you can easily become obsessed looking for it.

[duggie walker]

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be good for Jackson to step forward and dampen the hysteria.

Certainly, I'm not in the same league as the boffins who wish to break down every hue by micro-pixel and analyse it and I can't say I regret that. I'm afraid I do just look at something and decide whether it feels right or not. I don't always like what I see but, in this case, the Blu-rays look fine to me; and the grading is no more or less distracting than in most movies these days. It may be boosted from the original release, I can't say, but the result is consistent, varying as it should from scene to scene and adhering to its own internal logic as a colour scheme.

That's as much as I should say now. This has become, as many arguments do, a tribal affair.I still say, if you haven't seen these discs with your own eyes, you're not in a position to comment, however lucidly you put your points. I look forward to seeng the responses as these discs come in.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by MEB

Since I've posted another round of "screenshot evidence" I guess I better also post this (to keep some people off of my back):

I fully intend to evaluate the FOTR EE Blu-ray image quality with my own eyes, directly from the discs. A friend is expecting his set on Tuesday. I plan to go to his place to check it out on Wednesday. I will try REALLY hard to like what I see. I WANT to like it. I'd like to buy this set as I've never seen the extended editions of any of the movies.

Mark

Your eyeballs will tell your brain that it has a green tint, but then your brain will lie to your eyeballs and tell them that it does not. Will they believe it?

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

I still say, if you haven't seen these discs with your own eyes, you're not in a position to comment, however lucidly you put your points.

You mean to say if we haven't actually seen it that we should not judge it? Next you'll be saying that screen grabs are not a good indicator of picture quality. Surely you jest sir.

[jonmoz]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be good for Jackson to step forward and dampen the hysteria.

Certainly, I'm not in the same league as the boffins who wish to break down every hue by micro-pixel and analyse it and I can't say I regret that. I'm afraid I do just look at something and decide whether it feels right or not. I don't always like what I see but, in this case, the Blu-rays look fine to me; and the grading is no more or less distracting than in most movies these days. It may be boosted from the original release, I can't say, but the result is consistent, varying as it should from scene to scene and adhering to its own internal logic as a colour scheme.

That's as much as I should say now. This has become, as many arguments do, a tribal affair.I still say, if you haven't seen these discs with your own eyes, you're not in a position to comment, however lucidly you put your points. I look forward to seeng the responses as these discs come in.

Good points and I am sure when many people actually see the fellowship disc their concerns will lessen to some extent.

But the fact still remains a movie you have got used to watching,in some pepoles cases many many times has changed,now if it's clarity has improved then o.k,but to alter it's color palette no matter how subtle is still going to cause an issue.

Now of course if the director can state a valid reason for doing this then o.k,but why was the theatrical version of the fellowship left unaltered?,as you now have not only a different running time but a very different looking movie.

[diman1982]

HDTV


Bluray EE

[joenostalgia23]

I think some of us need to cool off about the green tint stuff. I've been looking through the thread the last few days and its nothing but insults and screenshot comparisons. There's a whole universe to The Lord of the Rings, but the only things that people seem to find worth discussing is a shade of color.


I myself am going to buy the set. The way I see it, the old color timing was a bit off because back in 2001, the technology wasn't as precise and they had less time compared to the other two. The green tint definitely is there, and I believe that it is intentional for most parts.
For example, in the shire, Jackson added magenta and other warmer shades to the picture. I've always felt that the first film looked unnaturally warm and over saturated. I think they've attempted to balance out the color palette with the green tint. While everyone says that the sky is green, to anyone else who was not told of a green tint of any kind, the sky looks blue. If I said, "Does that sky look a bit green?", they'd notice. At the same time, if I said for the theatrical BD, "Does that sky look a bit pink?", they'd also notice. Really look at that theatrical cut... the sky is blue, but has a bit of a magenta tint. Everything that looks green, doesn't look "pure" in the theatrical versions. The post above is proof, one is pink and one is green... but in our minds we know he's wearing white.
Most films made in recent times can have a naturally blue sky with digital color grading applied. Everything has a greenish tint, a orangish tint, a magenta tint, etc. applied. I was watching the recent Harry Potter films on Blu-ray, and they look how they're supposed to be but their skies are even greener than the skies in Fellowship. I was watching Inglourious Basterds and the smoke didn't look completely grey, it looked a bit blue. While watching True Grit, I noticed that flames and lights didn't contain pure-whites, they were very slightly color corrected. But they were all intentional, and I believe The Fellowship of the Ring's new colors are completely intentional.

But, I think the other side has a right to a voice as well. I understand their perspective, because I'm still thinking about if I made a right choice. While I think the new coloring actually looks much better, I don't usually like things being changed for home video releases. I will not buy the new Star Wars Blu-rays because George Lucas has changed the editing, plot points, effects and even actors from the original films. He has also changed the color correction(although with much cruder tools) and as a result, caused the image to suffer. I am referring the previous Special Editions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the changes to the image were retained for Blu-ray.

Anyways, I just hope that the green tint arguments can at least settle. People are getting so worked up that its a bit embarrassing. I think before posting something extreme, people should remember that Peter Jackson hasn't confirmed anything yet.
If you say its the Jackson's vision and label people who dislike the new transfer as without love or inner happiness, but then hear Jackson condemn the release and issue a replacement program, you look like a huge jackass.
If you say that Jackson would never allow this and that anyone who can even take pleasure from watching it is ruining home media, but then hear that Peter Jackson supervised everything and is totally content with the release, you look like a huge jackass.

So chill out and be dignified. You can still discuss the green tint, but be civil? It's getting hard to find posts that aren't part of the same argument. I've been trying to find out if the Best Buy pre-order ring box can house the new set, or if that box does anything with the box set.

[eegah]

Looking at those shots of Saruman not only does the HDTV sample have a much more natural colour it also strangely enough, has much better fine detail. The extended edition looks like Saruman has been to the hairdressers for a green rinse.

[JVB2]

I've decided not to buy this for a while. I already didn't buy the TE, mainly because I knew the EE would come (even sooner than we all had expected I guess), but this just doesn't justify it for me. I mean, I already had problems with the fact that they included all of the extra's from the DVD EE I have, but these messed up colors in FOTR even make that worse.

[jonmoz]

The problem with screencaps however is you are never sure if the color level is the same on both.

I would agree that on the above screencap that there is an awful lot of green tint in evidence,but if the displays color level is turned up it will be a lot more noticable.