The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[mredman]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

Is it so difficult to be polite and make your point without throwing around insults at people you don't even know? You should try it some time.

I agree with you on one thing at least, that getting a replacement scheme going to fix the constant green tint on the fotr ee blu-ray should be our number one priority.

If it is intentional and all points to that with the trailer they show at the official site also include the tint. I think it is wishful thinking that there will be a replacement then. And one will not come for a good reason. No matter if you like it or not.

[RYJAPE21]

Let's talk instead about how awesome it is that the extended editions are FINALLY on blu-ray

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by punisher

yes we can..***** and complain....but the best action is no action,meaning don't buy it period!

Look, I love these films as much as the next guy, but yeah - I'm going to wait. Not only will this issue eventually have a resolution, but the set will be cheaper to boot. In the meantime, I have the 6.1 DVDs to play through my ancient THX dts-es receiver...I'm good.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

While we're on the subject, I've just checked a "fade to white" in the beginning of the remastered 'Gangs of New York' disc and it most definitely has a green tint. I suspected this earlier in the thread, but only now checked on it. I also suspect it's not just these two catalog titles. Which begs the question, why has it taken so long for somebody to pick up on this phenomenon?

It's not like adding various hues is uncommon in movies, but when considered within the whole scope of the issue, here the color looks misplaced to me. Only the opening of Gangs has that color scheme, and attempting to balance the rest of the movie to it would yield grossly miscolored images, here I can't find a highlight without the green cast, be it flame or sky or text or smoke...

Also worth noting that Gangs was not digitally color graded and was not a largely DI production. No idea if the new remaster replicates the original color timing, or leverages these new tools.

[TruBlu06]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Disclaimer: This explanation has nothing to do with cyan/green tints intentional or otherwise, but to clarify something on 'video' images/photographic images and computer eyedropper measurements.

In images, there are specular white/reflections and light sources. And there are diffuse whites. Specular reflections are, for example, the shiny reflections you see on metal and car finishes etc. These, and light sources are of course brighter than diffuse whites. Diffuse whites are things like white T-shirts, walls, clouds etc. Hair.

To make this difference in brightness perceivable on a reproduced image, diffuse whites have to be on a lower level on a digital/video image (higher density in a photographic image). The specular reflection highlights and light sources have to be on a higher level (lower density on a photographic image) than the diffuse whites to separate the tones. So in "video" these highlights go near what people call pure white (90~100% RGB 255/255/255) (or in photography, just a little darker (slightly more density) than the transparent film base) while the diffuse whites tend to fall more around 80~90% RGB levels (In photography, more dense (darker) than the specular highlights near the film base).

If this wasn't done all the highlights and light sources would look blown-out (the cheap video look), ending clipped. So that's why when "whites" (the diffuse kind) are measured in video they tend to come out as "light grey". They are light grey referenced to 100% 255/255/255 level pure white, but they are supposed to be that way. When watching the image, due to the overall exposure and referenced to other levels in the image, the diffuse whites, tho technically light grey (which can be measured by an eyedropper tool), in relation to the other darker tones and small specular highlights and light sources (if any) on the image, they are white.

Thank you for ending the issue of the whites. Now if we can only deal with the whole green issue. Really, I think if Peter Jackson has modified the movies it is for the best. Since he was the director and an avid LOTR fan, I think it we should give the modified EE BDs a chance before we get out our pitchforks and torches and march down to Warner Brothers. Now don't get me wrong I loved the way the movies look on the theatrical BDs, but to say that Warner has done a new HD master for three of the top selling movies of all time only to screw it up with some overpowering shades of green doesn't seem very likely to me.

[denger76]

I am sorry but I don't like all those DVD's with this release. I prefer to just watch the movies and would wish these studios would release a bare bones (just movie version). I am guessing that as greedy as these studios are that they will release the EE's individually, if not I will wait for the complete box set with the Hobbit movies.

[gates70]

[MEB]

Originally Posted by griezzel

I've finally begun looking very closely at some screencaps I took and seeing some odd things. I'm seeing that once were brightest areas of the scenes I'm looking at have the most consistent green tint, leaving other parts of the frame not as affected. Like they selected the brightest areas and clicked "global fill" with pea soup green. Seeing the same thing consistently throughout the film, leading me to believe, for the first time, that this may have been intentional afterall. It seems to me if that same green had been applied to every pixel of the film it would very much worse.

But I do see that a slighter green haze over the the whole frame of the entire film. As if, after filling in the highlights with green, another tint was added to the entire frame to dampen the other colors. Very odd.

And you're right, it makes FOTR look MUCH different than the other films. It depresses me more thinking that they intended this look, because it's so extreme. And incomprehensible. I can only assume, then, they would be planning to do the same to TTT and ROTK at some future date, to bring them in line. Because as it is now, the first film looks drastically different than the other two.

In short, if the film as it is now was intentional and not a major flub, I will be much MORE upset.

There are naturally going to be "brighter" pixels scattered throughout most scenes. It's only when these brighter pixels end up in a group (very close to each other) that we see a "bright" spot in the scene.

Brighter pixels are closer to white. Obviously, a green/cyan tint affecting a brighter pixel is going to be more noticeable than a green/cyan tint affecting a darker pixel.

So, when you have a grouping of brighter pixels (snow, light streaming in from a window, smoke, haze, mist, fog, grey hair, white/grey clothing, etc.) then the green/cyan tint is going to be more noticeable in these areas.

I'm in complete agreement with Ken. EVERY pixel in the movie has been impacted by the green/teal tint. But we can only easily notice it and measure it in the pixels that were brighter before the green tint was added.

There is NOTHING selective about the addition of this green/teal tint. In fact, I believe the reason some people just can't see it (watching the actual discs) is because their eyes and brains have adjusted to a new "normal" by the time they get to scenes with lots of brighter pixels. Their eyes and brain have adjusted SPECIFICALLY because of green/teal tint placed over the entire image.

Mark

[mport5150]

Originally Posted by RYJAPE21

Let's talk instead about how awesome it is that the extended editions are FINALLY on blu-ray

Yes, let's do that!

How many skipped buying the Theatrical versions and waited for the EE release? I know I did.....though if I found one I would have been all over the $7 LOTR Trilogy @ Target on Black Friday.

[TruBlu06]

Originally Posted by mport5150

Yes, let's do that!

How many skipped buying the Theatrical versions and waited for the EE release? I know I did.....though if I found one I would have been all over the $7 LOTR Trilogy @ Target on Black Friday.

Yes, I agree let's stop talking about the infamous GREEN. The reviewers here on Bluray.com still liked the presentation. I bought the TE BDs on release day. Couldn't help myself. Wonder if Target will make the same mistake on the EEs this year. That would be great. Probably fired whoever did their ad though.

[chetripley80]

Originally Posted by TruBlu06

Yes, I agree let's stop talking about the infamous GREEN. The reviewers here on Bluray.com didn't mention it so I doubt it even is a problem.

The green tint issue was covered thoroughly in Ken's review.

I'm really tempted to purchase this set, but I think I'll wait until there's a clear resolution to the tint issue. While replacement disc programs aren't too bad (I've done it in the past for "Sunshine" and "Saving Private Ryan"), they can still be a pain in the butt sometimes depending on the studio.

[mport5150]

Originally Posted by TruBlu06

Yes, I agree let's stop talking about the infamous GREEN. The reviewers here on Bluray.com still liked the presentation. I bought the TE BDs on release day. Couldn't help myself. Wonder if Target will make the same mistake on the EEs this year. That would be great. Probably fired whoever did their ad though.

I would think they dumped the Ad Agency after that....I'm sure they lost a lot of GREEN

(Sorry I couldn't help it!)

[mport5150]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

The green tint issue was covered thoroughly in Ken's review.

I'm really tempted to purchase this set, but I think I'll wait until there's a clear resolution to the tint issue. While replacement disc programs aren't too bad (I've done it in the past for "Sunshine" and "Saving Private Ryan"), they can still be a pain in the butt sometimes depending on the studio.

I did it for Gladiator and it was pretty painless....my Saving Private Ryan was already the new one...

[HonestJohn]

Kris Deering at AVS finally got a hold of his advanced copy for review. A few words from Kris .... around and around we go .....

http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showpost....postcount=2172

[Show spoiler]So I received my review copies from Warner yesterday. I haven't had a chance to go through the full set but I spun up FOTR to see how they looked in regards to this "green" issue. I made sure to look at the majority of the scenes discussed here including the title and the infamous snow scene when the ring is dropped.

I have a calibrated JVC RS40 coupled with a Lumagen Radiance XE. I checked the calibration on the display this morning before I looked at the disc to be sure everything was good, calibration is spot on.

On my disc, there were no issues with green tinting that I could detect. The snow was WHITE, with maybe a slight tinge toward blue, but that may have been more to do with the sky. The opening title looked white as well, though a slightly off white. I've seen the screen caps that most are posting here and I can assure you that on my display this disc looks NOTHING like what is being shown in these screen caps. Shane Buettner is going to be coming by today and I plan on showing him the scenes and the screen caps here to get his opinion as well, but for now I am not seeing ANYTHING like what people are reporting here. My observations are pretty much in line with what Robert shared a few days ago.

Now whether this means there are indeed different discs out there or not, I have no idea. I rarely take anyone's word when it comes to picture quality as the majority of people I know don't have a properly calibrated system and a multitude of other issues wrong with their systems. I always make sure I check them in my own setup, which I know is calibrated spot on.
__________________
Consulting Technical Editor/Writer
Home Theater Magazine

Looks like he's in agreement with this part of Ken's review .....

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-L...Blu-ray/19929/

[Show spoiler]Whew. Glad that guy's done talking. On to the goods. Altered color timing aside, The Fellowship of the Ring has, quite frankly, never looked as strong, confident and capable as it does here. There are a few ragged edges, a few flaws here and there, but nothing that should prevent anyone from enjoying the upgrade the new transfer offers. The image is rich and bold, primaries are tenacious, black levels are deeper than ever, the overall palette remains lush and lively, and detail is excellent. While a measure of filmic softness still prevails at times, many a scene is Glamdring-sharp. Textures are often exceedingly refined, edges are crisp (without the help of any egregious artificial sharpening) and additional noise reduction hasn't been applied.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by TruBlu06

Yes, I agree let's stop talking about the infamous GREEN. The reviewers here on Bluray.com still liked the presentation. I bought the TE BDs on release day. Couldn't help myself. Wonder if Target will make the same mistake on the EEs this year. That would be great. Probably fired whoever did their ad though.

I picked up the TE for $7.99/each but then traded them in because Fellowship and Towers looked so bad.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HonestJohn

Kris Deering at AVS finally got a hold of his advanced copy for review. A few words from Kris .... around and around we go .....

http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showpost....postcount=2172

[Show spoiler]So I received my review copies from Warner yesterday. I haven't had a chance to go through the full set but I spun up FOTR to see how they looked in regards to this "green" issue. I made sure to look at the majority of the scenes discussed here including the title and the infamous snow scene when the ring is dropped.

I have a calibrated JVC RS40 coupled with a Lumagen Radiance XE. I checked the calibration on the display this morning before I looked at the disc to be sure everything was good, calibration is spot on.

On my disc, there were no issues with green tinting that I could detect. The snow was WHITE, with maybe a slight tinge toward blue, but that may have been more to do with the sky. The opening title looked white as well, though a slightly off white. I've seen the screen caps that most are posting here and I can assure you that on my display this disc looks NOTHING like what is being shown in these screen caps. Shane Buettner is going to be coming by today and I plan on showing him the scenes and the screen caps here to get his opinion as well, but for now I am not seeing ANYTHING like what people are reporting here. My observations are pretty much in line with what Robert shared a few days ago.

Now whether this means there are indeed different discs out there or not, I have no idea. I rarely take anyone's word when it comes to picture quality as the majority of people I know don't have a properly calibrated system and a multitude of other issues wrong with their systems. I always make sure I check them in my own setup, which I know is calibrated spot on.
__________________
Consulting Technical Editor/Writer
Home Theater Magazine

Looks like he's in agreement with this part of Ken's review .....

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-L...Blu-ray/19929/

[Show spoiler]Whew. Glad that guy's done talking. On to the goods. Altered color timing aside, The Fellowship of the Ring has, quite frankly, never looked as strong, confident and capable as it does here. There are a few ragged edges, a few flaws here and there, but nothing that should prevent anyone from enjoying the upgrade the new transfer offers. The image is rich and bold, primaries are tenacious, black levels are deeper than ever, the overall palette remains lush and lively, and detail is excellent. While a measure of filmic softness still prevails at times, many a scene is Glamdring-sharp. Textures are often exceedingly refined, edges are crisp (without the help of any egregious artificial sharpening) and additional noise reduction hasn't been applied.

I think you should have posted the follow-up answer Kris gave to a question posed by ‘amerogosum’ here –

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2181

Because, unless I’m confused, it seems my friend Kris has a funny sense of the color *white*. I would consider a slight tinge toward blue, being more like page 22 -23, in this pdf file which should come up around the top of the Google search with the title - [pdf] Digital Cinema Hardware–

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...w=1024&bih=524

[Penton-Man]

To answer a question/comment which someone posed to me a bunch of pages back concerning frame rates.....No, don’t plan on 48fps becoming supported by Blu-ray anytime in the near or remote future.

[omicron]

I've decided not to cancel. I don't see it as worth it. There is nothing wrong the TT and ROTK. While there may be an error with FOTR everyone says overall this is easily the best FOTR ever released. There may also NOT be an error. If there is an error it may or may not ever be corrected. If it is corrected WB may or may not issue a recall. If there is I recall it won't cost me anything to get it fixed. If not I'll end up buying a new BD of FOTR for $15 some time in the future.

Worst case, which I think is about 15% likely I'm out $15. It's not worth it for me to wait who knows how long (could be years) for the BD EE LOTR.

As far as comparing screen shots - one has to realize the human eye automatically corrects color balance to a great extent. Screenshot comparisons depress that autocorrection because there are two different color palettes in play. This is why differences that show as gross in screenshots may not be visible at all, or be quite minor when watching the movie.

As an example as to how powerful this auto correction is, last year I had cataract surgery which means now one of my eyes has a different color response than the other. When I took off my eye patch everything I saw through that eye looked far more blue than I was used to because of the new clear lens. Seeing through the other, natural eye made everything look MUCH more brown/green. The difference was far greater than in the screenshot comparisons. Within a short while my brain learned to apply it's own automatic color grading to the different images from each eye making everything look as usual again despite the significant differences between the light reaching each retina. So I am not at all concerned by an even tint applied to the whole movie making things look green in screenshot comparisons. I am NOT going to be watching the new and old films side by side.

Now criticism of the possible loss of contrast by applying the tint I can agree with. But I think that is likely to be a much more minor effect if all other things are equal. And all things are not equal.

If we really want to see the impact of the tint on the viewer what is needed is a comparison showing reduced contrast, lost detail, etc.

[TruBlu06]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

The green tint issue was covered thoroughly in Ken's review.

I'm really tempted to purchase this set, but I think I'll wait until there's a clear resolution to the tint issue. While replacement disc programs aren't too bad (I've done it in the past for "Sunshine" and "Saving Private Ryan"), they can still be a pain in the butt sometimes depending on the studio.

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot that the beginning of his review was about the tint and all that. Honestly, I didn't even remember because I'm not really worried about it anyway. If there is something wrong with I could always try to get a replacement.

[joenostalgia23]

Originally Posted by PGW

The whole friggin' disc is tinted PUKE GREEN! It's UNWATCHABLE. So what DIFFERENCE does ANYTHING else make? Is it sharper? Sure! Who cares? IT'S PUKE GREEN!!!!

Yeah I know it is, but so are Fight Club, Amelie and Harry Potter 6. Before this release, the whole friggin' film was pink. Look at the shot of Saruman from the HDTV/Theatrical Blu-ray.
I'm wasn't even saying it wasn't an issue, just that it's so small an issue that it's silly to insult other people who disagree. It's there, but I can live with it, especially knowing that every review that I've read from people who actually own the disc has said that the green tint isn't noticeable and that the PQ is great. The only people saying it looks terrible and needs to be replaced are people who've never actually watched the disc and have only seen screenshots and youtube clips.