The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Here's a comment from someone over at AICN

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I can confirm Fellowship looks like ****
by mattman

It looks like something's wrong with the tint on my TV. It's not color timing... it's a green filter over every scene, and it looks really bad. I went into this with an open mind, but this is lazy at best. I hope there is a trade-in program at some point, after enough people complain. The complaints are totally warranted on this one.

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Re : mattman
by real deal

Do you have a s[t]ore bought copy?

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Real deal, yep
by mattman

Just picked it up this morning. It's a beautiful set, and I like how compact it is.

I've watched about an hour of Fellowship so far. I figured the complaints were overblown... I was wrong. All the daylight scenes have lost much of their natural beauty and range from tolerable to eyesore.

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Discerning eyes can easily see the problem even on the actual discs in motion and it's very bothersome. As has been mentioned before, being able to easily spot this kind of stuff is more of a curse than a blessing.

And to karlosfunkster, as I've said, I have an HD rip of the EE versions that is identical to all of the screencaps from the actual BD disc in every single instance. I watched that copy and tested it on my 120" screen before I started contributing to this thread. There is zero reason to think that the BD disc itself would look different than what I have in any significant way.

Take care,
HeKS

No I don't think it will. Where are you finding issue? The entire film? Or the parts where the changes are more noticeable? Perhaps you could speak to KingKong and ask if you can get a copy that he has regraded? PS, if it wasn't for this thread I wonder if mattman would have noticed??

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Well, the problem is once you know about the tint and have seen the comparisons, it is more noticeable... even when the film is in motion. Once you see it, it's difficult to unsee it. Believe me, I'm now cursed. I stand my statement that it's more difficult to see when the film is in motion, but that will mainly apply to people who haven't studied the differences so closely. Todd has studied the comparisons so much, as have I, that I'm sure he will notice, as do I. That doesn't make him any more right or wrong than you. That's the rub. No one is right or wrong in this situation, it's all about personal tastes, impressions and beliefs.

Just to clarify: I'm not trying to contradict you at all, or start an argument. But I also think dismissing those who notice the tint, even in motion, as malcontents is only going to lead to further arguments that really aren't necessary or fair to those with a different opinion. The tint boils down to perception, so it's bound to bother some more than others. Why everyone seems angry at those who see or don't see it is baffling to me.

You noticed the dull(er) colors in some of the scenes in Hobbiton on the DC, but not on the Blu-ray. That doesn't make you wrong, or the two versions different. It just shows how easily viewing environments, screen sizes, reference points, etc affects how noticeable the new color grade and tint are.

Thanks Ken, and very well put. Like I have said, opinions and impressions are and will be all over the map as far as the green tint since like you say it all boils down to perception. Some people are flat out just more sensitive to seeing this type of issue as well compared to others. You, me and mredman could all be sitting and watching this together and all come away with a different opinion even though we watched the same disc on the same setup in the same room and none of us are right or wrong as far as our perception and opinion of what we are seeing.

In a sense, I am glad more people do not see this how I have seen it up to this point since there would be a lot of disappointed people right now which would suck in a sense. At the same time, I wish more people did see it from my perspective so we could cause more noise and maybe have a better chance of getting something done about it since I clearly feel this is a mistake no matter if it ever gets owned up to or not (the next release will be VERY telling as far as this goes depending on if we get the tint or not). It is what it is though and at the end of the day it is cool reading all the happy reports since this is such a big release that so many have been anticipating for a long time (years for many of us!). I plan on just rolling the dice and buying it tom since I want to own these films even with FOTR in what I consider to be a flawed state. Plenty of positives though to justify my purchase which I am going to choose to focus on after I get through my initial impression of FOTG as good or bad as it may look to my eyes.

Cheers!

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Thanks Ken, and very well put. Like I have said, opinions and impressions are and will be all over the map as far as the green tint since like you say it all boils down to perception. Some people are flat out just more sensitive to seeing this type of issue as well compared to others. You, me and mredman could all be sitting and watching this together and all come away with a different opinion even though we watched the same disc on the same setup in the same room and none of us are right or wrong as far as our perception and opinion of what we are seeing.

In a sense, I am glad more people do not see this how I have seen it up to this point since there would be a lot of disappointed people right now which would suck in a sense. At the same time, I wish more people did see it from my perspective so we could cause more noise and maybe have a better chance of getting something done about it since I clearly feel this is a mistake no matter if it ever gets owned up to or not (the next release will be VERY telling as far as this goes depending on if we get the tint or not). It is what it is though and at the end of the day it is cool reading all the happy reports since this is such a big release that so many have been anticipating for a long time (years for many of us!). I plan on just rolling the dice and buying it tom since I want to own these films even with FOTR in what I consider to be a flawed state. Plenty of positives though to justify my purchase which I am going to choose to focus on after I get through my initial impression of FOTG as good or bad as it may look to my eyes.

Cheers!

Nice one - and yes we all perceive colour and sound slightly differently to one another, not to mention the fact our entire brains are all wired a little uniquely! I think we can all agree to have a difference of opinion. I am open to change my own opinion and who knows, perhaps yours may be changed tomorrow!! And goodnight all...time for bed.

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by karlosfunkster

No I don't think it will. Where are you finding issue? The entire film? Or the parts where the changes are more noticeable? Perhaps you could speak to KingKong and ask if you can get a copy that he has regraded? PS, if it wasn't for this thread I wonder if mattman would have noticed?

Essentially, yes, that's what I mean. I have a copy of the movie, which exactly matches all the screen prints taken directly from the discs that have appeared in various reviews and other places on the net. So I've seen what it looks like in motion, in a dark environment, on a huge 120" screen, and I strongly dislike what I see. Even if there was a tiny amount of improvement from the disc itself, it couldn't possibly be significant enough to make me say, "Oh, now it looks great."

I checked it out in motion on a large screen in a dark room before I ever contributed to this thread because I agreed that I needed to see it myself under those conditions before judging it. When I did that, some parts seemed less noticeably affected by the green than one might expect from the comparable screenshots (even though the screenshots were totally accurate), but the boosted contrast bothered me all the time right from the start and where the elements aligned to showcase the green tint it drove me crazy. That's when I signed up here and started posting.

Take care,
HeKS

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Hi all. Sorry this is coming so late. This afternoon, the Vice President of Publicity and Promotion at Warner Home Video forwarded me the official WHV statement you've all already read several times over. (Thanks to Mr. Harris, who let her know I was looking for a confirmation of the statement's source.)

I don't have any other news to report at this time, although I've updated my FOTR review accordingly. Thanks for your patience. Please accept my apologies for being so late to the table on this one

Thanks Ken. So, I do wonder, do you think the Blu-ray is the same (exact) copy as what people saw in theaters. Also, do you believe WB that PJ approved this? Not trying to stir the pot, just would like to hear your thoughts.

[karlosfunkster]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Essentially, yes, that's what I mean. I have a copy of the movie, which exactly matches all the screen prints taken directly from the discs that have appeared in various reviews and other places on the net. So I've seen what it looks like in motion, in a dark environment, on a huge 120" screen, and I strongly dislike what I see. Even if there was a tiny amount of improvement from the disc itself, it couldn't possibly be significant enough to make me say, "Oh, now it looks great."

I checked it out in motion on a large screen in a dark room before I ever contributed to this thread because I agreed that I needed to see it myself under those conditions before judging it. When I did that, some parts seemed less noticeably affected by the green than one might expect from the comparable screenshots (even though the screenshots were totally accurate), but the boosted contrast bothered me all the time right from the start and where the elements aligned to showcase the green tint it drove me crazy. That's when I signed up here and started posting.

Take care,
HeKS

Yes my first viewing was the same HeKS as I was so concerned. I've now purchased the set though as I came away happy. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Take care...and good night all!

[Drowned]

Originally Posted by Inspector Toschi

Well, after flipping through FOTR for a solid hour I'm ashamed to say that I actually fell for all the hoopla for a moment. This is a stunning image. And what-do-ya-know, everything isn't slathered in green. I can't help but laugh at the Matrix comparisons now. It's shocking how overblown this has gotten.

Had I not read these forum, all I would have noticed was the new teal to some scenes. Honestly, I'm a little baffled as to how someone could think the entire film has a green tint when watching the disc. Skin tones look great. The skies in hobbiton were a nice shade of blue (That youtube comparison is officially a joke now) I've seen a number of shades of different white. Flames look like flames. I could go on. The only instance where the teal color is a bit drastic appears to be the snow mountain trek for obvious reasons.

I could get behind the TE criticisms because they actually suffered from DNR and a bit of EE. But this is just another Alien/Aliens scenario. What a fantastic looking image. And in case anyone asks, I did not hold a piece of paper up to my screen while I watched it.

I just watched FOTR in its entirety and came here to share my own thoughts on it but opted to simply quote your post as you just perfectly summarized what I was gonna say.

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

There is a little flyer in with the set for LOTR items you can buy, the ring is one of them, but it will cost $129.

That's a different ring than what you get if you preorder.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by joebloggs13

This new EE BD set is on sale at Costco for $59. I already own the DVD EE. With all that's been said about the changes made. Is the upgrade really worth it?

SOLD! I did not even think about Costco for this......thanks for the info! The great thing about Costco is if I really hate it they have a great return policy. I doubt I will be that dissatisfied, but makes my purchase decision easier.

[HeKS]

I didn't notice mattman reference this thread. Did I miss that somewhere?

In either case, he was one of the people who though complaints were overblown and that it wouldn't really be a problem and chose to get the actual discs, only to discover the complaints were right on the money.

[vidjunkie]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

That's a different ring than what you get if you preorder.

Yea I know, I am sure Best Buy would not be handing out a $129 replica of the ring for pre ordering, I was just saying if he wanted one bad enough, there it is, there is also a cheaper silver version one for I believe $79.

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Bill,

I'm going to respond to the reply you made to my post that this is taken from, but before I do, can you clarify something for me? What are you meaning to say in that statement I've bolded above? Do you mean to suggest that they WERE as careful this time as they were originally, or do you mean to suggest that they WERE NOT as careful this time around?

Take care,
HeKS

I mean to suggest that they were careful now, as then. Sorry if that was confusing. It was a long post, and it's been a busy day.

[nathan_393]

Watched FOTR earlier and I am now watching TTT. While the tint was there and the coour timing has changed, I can't see I overly dislike it. Seemed to work for the most part, and I actually thought that some sequences benefited very much from it.

Overall, 8/10 PQ from me. TTT is probably 8.5 at the moment. All is well in LOTR world for me. I could see FOTR having "better" colour timing, but the hoopla here is way overdone.

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Hi all. Sorry this is coming so late. This afternoon, the Vice President of Publicity and Promotion at Warner Home Video forwarded me the official WHV statement you've all already read several times over. (Thanks to Mr. Harris, who let her know I was looking for a confirmation of the statement's source.)

I don't have any other news to report at this time, although I've updated my FOTR review accordingly. Thanks for your patience. Please accept my apologies for being so late to the table on this one

Hey Ken,

Just wanted to chime in and say I thought your review of the set was excellent, your comments thoughtful and I've got loads of respect for you. It's gotten plenty turbulent around here, but my hats off to you for staying rational in the midst of much silliness.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Elrood

Just want to say that Fellowship looks AMAZING. There is absolutely no green tint problem.

*Sigh* This is the kind of post that can cause trouble. Yes, there is a greenish-blue/cyan tinting to the film. Hell, it's measurable, so it exists. The only debate is whether or not it's a problem.

Is it revisionist? Arguably yes, since this color scheme is a radical departure from the way this film has looked in every previous video incarnation.

Is it intentional? Also arguably yes. Wingnut and Warner have both officially come out and said so. The answer to this is only no if you believe in your heart that they're all lying to you just to sell some discs.

Is it a deal-breaker? It's strictly a matter of personal preference, but the picture quality is better in every other conceivable way, which gets forgotten in the discussion. I find that the contrast complaints are unwarranted as well. It's darker, but plenty of scenes benefit greatly from being less blown-out (Rivendell certainly).

Personally for me, being forced to re-buy 9 DVDs I already own is a far bigger deal-breaker than some revisionist (and apparently intentional) color timing ever will be.

Still, it rubs me the wrong way that there are still posts being generated claiming the tinting is not there. The green/cyan tinting is absolutely there, and entertaining ideas that it's not is more than counter-productive, it's counter-reality.

[JaseT]

Didn't somebody post a shot of the Blockbuster set having a ring too?

[Red Pill 101]

Is anyone having a problem getting the second disc from each movie to load?

I have a Sony BDP-S570. Disc one from each movie loads immediately. Disc two hangs right where the Warner Bros FBI logo should appear. I've left it go for about 10 minutes. Maybe I'm not waiting long enough. Most BD's load fast on this player. Firmware is also up-to-date.

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks

UPDATE

Although I never arrived at a menu, pressing the "Enter/OK" button on the remote plays the movie. The discs just hang on a black screen not prompting for any user input. After pressing "enter" they play fine.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

You'll only notice it because of your hundreds of posts on the matter.

Not true............I would LOVE to be wrong, or should I say my perception be different than I expect, and I hope I am. I dont want to see it, at least from a distraction standpoint. I will GLADLY eat crow and make that report if it does not look as bad as these shots/videos look to me since I want to enjoy what is one of my top 3 all time favorite films. Curious to see it and I am buying it for sure so we will see Costco for $59 is too good to pass up. Hey, I am more of an audio guy anyway believe it or not and I have no doubt it will blow me away from that angle!

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

Watched FOTR earlier and I am now watching TTT. While the tint was there and the coour timing has changed, I can't see I overly dislike it. Seemed to work for the most part, and I actually thought that some sequences benefited very much from it.

Overall, 8/10 PQ from me. TTT is probably 8.5 at the moment. All is well in LOTR world for me. I could see FOTR having "better" colour timing, but the hoopla here is way overdone.

I'm sorry to be a broken record here, but something about this whole controversy and "hoopla" keeps being overlooked. This issue needs to be broken down into 4 stages, starting with the EE DVD release.

Stage 1: The color timing as it exists on the DVD EE release of FOTR.

Stage 2: Color timing changes made to specific scenes (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien) for the Blu EE release of FOTR.

Stage 3: The addition of a green tint applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Stage 4: The addition of a massive contrast boost applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Most of us think that the changes made at Stage 2 are actually improvements. I haven't actually noticed anyone saying otherwise.

Our complaints start at Stage 3 and what I'm personally noticing is that several people are under the impression that the green tint applied in Stage 3 is what is responsible for the improvements that should actually be attributed to Stage 2. The change at Stage 3 simply gives the changes at Stage 2, along with everything else, a heavy green push, lessening the net improvement that was achieved at Stage 2.

Take care,
HeKS

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Not true............I would LOVE to be wrong, or should I say my perception be different than I expect, and I hope I am. I dont want to see it, at least from a distraction standpoint. I will GLADLY eat crow and make that report if it does not look as bad as these shots/videos look to me since I want to enjoy what is one of my top 3 all time favorite films. Curious to see it and I am buying it for sure so we will see Costco for $59 is too good to pass up. Hey, I am more of an audio guy anyway believe it or not and I have no doubt it will blow me away from that angle!

Then you will love it. I had mine cranked and it just sounds great!