The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[vidjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

My apologies. Definitely closure. Believe me, definitely closure.

I have two goals. One, to make sure as many people as possible understand the tint as it exists. It is slight, almost imperceptible, and far less severe in motion. But too many are intent on dismissing it and claiming it doesn't exist. That needs to be corrected.

Two, I am interested in hearing Mr. Jackson address his now-confirmed intentional choices. Not to verify the official studio statement, not to dig up discrepancies. But simply so I, as a fan, can understand the artistic and thematic reasoning a slight green tint was added to the whole of the film, slight and imperceptible as it is.

Mr. Jackson has made it clear he loves to use subtle and not-so-subtle colors to evoke key moods. Since he made a deliberate change, he must have had a deliberate reason. I'd love to read two sentence from him about the reasoning for that change so I can discuss that change with full understanding of the filmmaker's intentions

Again, definitely closure. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. That isn't inciting anything. It's just asking for more transparency than a two-sentence PR statement provides. (And yes, I believe the statement is true! I'm not trying to slyly undermine it. I'm just pointing out it doesn't reveal why Jackson chose to intentionally add the tint it confirms he intentionally added).

Hope that helps clarify!



Correct. I'm trying to proceed as a good journalist would. (Even though, I admit, I'm not a journalist, just a humble reviewer trying to preserve as much integrity as possible in a very volatile thread swirling around a very volatile debate.) As I go, I have been gathering verifiable facts, reporting them, drawing reasonable conclusions and asking logical followup questions. I don't have any hidden agenda, and I'm definitely not trying to stir any pots

Thank you, and closure is exactly what I thought you wanted, me to, I do not read most of the posts anymore, I mainly skim LOL because even still today, you have the same couple of people saying the same thing, but your posts I definitely stop at and read.

Thank you again for answering, I really appreciate it.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by TheOperaGhost

Acknowledging green snow and Legolas the color of a Teletubby is not histrionics, it's pointing out facts. That many find it displeasing is understandable. That some defend that color choice/error obnoxiously and doggedly is unsurprising -- remember PentonMan's ridiculous defense of The Last of the Mohicans? -- but it is indefensible.

One can say that they like the change, but they cannot say honestly that no change has occurred or that it is "natural."

My point in the original post was not about the so call green or no green, it was that a certain core of people here and else where on the Internet will always find something wrong and complaint and b1tch to no end about every single release that is done. If it's not on the movie transfer, they will complaint about the packaging or the art on it or something....the point is that certain people will complaint no matter what is done because it's in them to do so.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

Thank you again for answering, I really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by vidjunkie

No offense or disrespect to Ken Brown, but...

No problem, and no offense was taken at all. Please continue to question me whenever my points or conclusions don't add up, or when I'm being potentially misunderstood. I can't rightly criticize the studio and filmmakers for a lack of transparency and then not be willing to be transparent myself.

You guys keep me on my toes, and I truly appreciate it. If nothing else, I hope it helps contribute to a more informed, more civil discussion. Even those of you who have disagreed with some of my positions or opinions along the way have been, by and large, very respectful to me. That doesn't go unnoticed, and I've tried my best to return the favor

Thanks as always for posting!

[G:Box]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

No problem, and no offense was taken at all. Please continue questioning me when my points or conclusions don't add up, or when I'm being potentially misunderstood. I can't rightly criticize the studio and filmmakers for a lack of transparency and then not be willing to be transparent myself.

You guys keep me on my toes, and I truly appreciate it. If nothing else, I hope it helps contribute to a more informed, more civil discussion. Even those of you who have disagreed with some of my positions or opinions along the way have been, by and large, very respectful to me. That doesn't go unnoticed, and I've tried my best to return the favor

Thanks as always for posting!

.....And this is exactly why KB is da man

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

The quote you are referencing on the Digitalbits.com was a quote from AintItCool's Harry Knowles that was re-published by Bill Hunt on the Digitalbits.com; it is a second-hand account of Peter Jackson's thoughts and impressions. It's helpful, but it is not a quote from Peter Jackson, or a direct statement from the filmmaker. Statements of these nature have been comprised of Mr. Hunt or Mr. Knowles' accounts of Jackson's thoughts, in Mr. Hunt and Mr. Knowles' own words. The difference between a quote and an account requires a fine distinction, but it's an important one. Their accounts of Jackson's impressions also don't feature any acknowledgment from Jackson that the tint was added; only that the film looks better than it ever has. Again, a direct statement would clear up most of the lingering confusion, specifically one that addressed the verifiable, consistent tint that, slight and at-times imperceptible as it is, has been objectively shown to have been applied to the full transfer.

That said, I've tried to make it clear I accept and appreciate the Warner Brothers statement. I don't think they'd issue one if it weren't true. It would be a PR nightmare. The comment in my review is discussing the source of some of the ongoing confusion; it isn't calling the official statement into question. (Which I go on to quote and support in my review.)

Hope that helps clarify!

I've submitted my suggestion to the various "powers that be" that a direct Jackson or Lesnie quote on the matter would he helpful. My own suspicision - and I want to be clear that these are my thoughts only, uninformed by anything other than my own feelings - is that the lack of one stems from one or all of three things: 1) Jackson may consider this a non-issue, being happy with the look of the film and discs personally, and having already had Lesnie look into it (according to Harry's report), 2) he's just extremely busy with production on The Hobbit films, and/or 3) Jackson may be aware that - right now - it's only people on a limited number of online A/V enthusiast forums and websites who are even aware of the issue, whereas the moment he issues a personal statement on the matter, it might get picked up by the more mainstream entertainment press (understandably curious about The Hobbit production) and suddenly an limited Internet forum kerfuffle gets blown up into a much larger headache. But again, this is speculation at best.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

I've submitted my suggestion to the various "powers that be" that a direct Jackson or Lesnie quote on the matter would he helpful. My own suspicision - and I want to be clear that these are my thoughts only, uninformed by anything other than my own feelings - is that the lack of one stems from one or all of three things: 1) Jackson may consider this a non-issue, being happy with the look of the film and discs personally, and having already had Lesnie look into it (according to Harry's report), 2) he's just extremely busy with production on The Hobbit films, and/or 3) Jackson may be aware that - right now - it's only people on a limited number of online A/V enthusiast forums and websites who are even aware of the issue, whereas the moment he issues a personal statement on the matter, it might get picked up by the more mainstream entertainment press (understandably curious about The Hobbit production) and suddenly an limited Internet forum kerfuffle gets blown up into a much larger headache. But again, this is speculation at best.

Thanks so much for offering your insight on the matter. I could easily see where any of the three, or a combination thereof, could be the source of the silence. Your posts are certainly appreciated, even when they simply involve speculation

Take note Blu-ray.com forum members: when our discussion remains civil, we're the beneficiaries of insights and speculations we might not otherwise be privy to!

[AintNoSin]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

I've submitted my suggestion to the various "powers that be" that a direct Jackson or Lesnie quote on the matter would he helpful. My own suspicision - and I want to be clear that these are my thoughts only, uninformed by anything other than my own feelings - is that the lack of one stems from one or all of three things: 1) Jackson may consider this a non-issue, being happy with the look of the film and discs personally, and having already had Lesnie look into it (according to Harry's report), 2) he's just extremely busy with production on The Hobbit films, and/or 3) Jackson may be aware that - right now - it's only people on a limited number of online A/V enthusiast forums and websites who are even aware of the issue, whereas the moment he issues a personal statement on the matter, it might get picked up by the more mainstream entertainment press (understandably curious about The Hobbit production) and suddenly an limited Internet forum kerfuffle gets blown up into a much larger headache. But again, this is speculation at best.

I think a combination of 1 and 3 seems very likely.

[fishtaco]

"Earlier this month there was some hub-bub about some of the Blu Ray forums that the FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING EE Blu-Ray mastering was completely f'd with an ugly green hint over everything, oblitering any real whites and messing up the entire gorgeous color palate of the film. I wrote Peter Jackson to alert him to the rumors. Peter had Andrew Lesnie look into it – you see… of the 3 films, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING EE was the only film of the trilogy that did not go through the extensive and expensive Digital Color Grading process. They did that for this. Peter had seen the new mastering of FELLOWSHIP – in fact anyone that had seen it on HD broadcasts recently was looking at the gorgeous master sans any tinting. In Peter’s opinion the film has simply never looked better – including theatrically, because this new digital color grading was something that Peter wanted from the very beginning."

Does anyone know what the bolded part of the above statement from Harry Knowles means? It seems to indicate the new PJ-approved version has been shown on HDTV without any tint. Since the discs do have the tint, isn't that a contradiction? Which is the approved version, the HDTV or the Blu-ray?

[Jayrcee]

Originally Posted by joebloggs13

This new EE BD set is on sale at Costco for $59. I already own the DVD EE. With all that's been said about the changes made. Is the upgrade really worth it?

Thanks for the heads up! I picked up a set today for $60. If anyone would like for me to get them a set for this price + shipping let me know. I have another gift card that I would like to get rid of

[marine92104]

Thanks Ken & Bill for staying up on this to let us know if it was intentional by the Director or not.

If the public is paying this much for a box set we have the right to know if it was something that the Director intended or a mistake.

Maybe they should realize how many people read these boards & that we just want to know the truth.

It shouldn't take Jackson long to issue a statement even if he's involved with The Hobbit.

[Cinemaddict]

Originally Posted by dirkblack

of the 3 films, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING EE was the only film of the trilogy that did not go through the extensive and expensive Digital Color Grading process.

Not true.

There is a video about digital grading on the Fellowship EE extras, and it talks a lot about how extensively it was used in the film.

[Ken Brown]

Originally Posted by Cinemaddict

Not true.

There is a video about digital grading on the Fellowship EE extras, and it talks a lot about how extensively it was used in the film.

Correct. The Appendices featurette you mentioned states approximately 70% of the film was subjected to extensive color grading. The new re-grade simply gave Jackson a chance to address 100% of the film via digital color grading.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by goresnet

Quick but dumb question. With these being discreet 6.1 surround, what happens in a 5.1 system? Do you lose the rear center, or does it matrix into the rears?

Generally on most 5.1 systems the rear channel will appear in your left and right surround channel. You won't lose any audio. What player and A/V Rcvr do you have?

[bam777]

Great, now Best Buy has messed up my order of The One Ring by itself. And Amazon still hasn't even shipped off my blu-ray set. This whole release just isn't going well for me right now.

[ApolloOne]

As a post-production professional, it grieves me to see so many out-of-work colorists out there.

[rltilley]

Originally Posted by jerzdawg

Since I cannot contribute to the viewing reviews I would just like to add that Borders.com sux. My fedex tracking still shows "Shipment information sent to FedEx. Please check back later for shipment status or subscribe for e-mail notifications." Why I knew it was a risk ordering from them the $65 price tag was the best option at that time. Would have gladly paid the extra $5 to get on release day through Amazon....

Definitely odd. I received shipping confirmation on Monday & mine is on the truck & out for delivery today. I ordered with the 50% off coupon on 5/23/11 & mine was shipped via FedEx as well.

[Cinemaddict]

Originally Posted by HeKS

I'm sorry to be a broken record here, but something about this whole controversy and "hoopla" keeps being overlooked. This issue needs to be broken down into 4 stages, starting with the EE DVD release.

Stage 1: The color timing as it exists on the DVD EE release of FOTR.

Stage 2: Color timing changes made to specific scenes (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien) for the Blu EE release of FOTR.

Stage 3: The addition of a green tint applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Stage 4: The addition of a massive contrast boost applied over the entire Blu EE release of FOTR, including OVER the changes already made in Stage 2.

Most of us think that the changes made at Stage 2 are actually improvements. I haven't actually noticed anyone saying otherwise.

Our complaints start at Stage 3 and what I'm personally noticing is that several people are under the impression that the green tint applied in Stage 3 is what is responsible for the improvements that should actually be attributed to Stage 2. The change at Stage 3 simply gives the changes at Stage 2, along with everything else, a heavy green push, lessening the net improvement that was achieved at Stage 2.

Great post. I believe the version I saw in theaters two weeks ago is what the movie looked like after Stage 2. Meaning: Awesome. All the changes I noticed were improvements.

Originally Posted by merrick97

Were you one of those who bought the theatricals, the EEs, then the UEs?

*Raises hand proudly*

Originally Posted by Ken Brown

Correct. The Appendices featurette you mentioned states approximately 70% of the film was subjected to extensive color grading. The new re-grade simply gave Jackson a chance to address 100% of the film via digital color grading.

Interesting. Thank you. Which scenes were recently graded for the first time?

[MarkWM]

Originally Posted by bam777

Great, now Best Buy has messed up my order of The One Ring by itself. And Amazon still hasn't even shipped off my blu-ray set. This whole release just isn't going well for me right now.

BB teed me off so I ordered mine from Amazon too with one day shipping. Still showing no movement after about 8 hours now...

[Cook]

I calibrated my tv this morning and picked up thr set. Im gonna check it out tonight.

[Sean72]

Originally Posted by ApolloOne

As a post-production professional, it grieves me to see so many out-of-work colorists out there.

Do you then dispute that the constant green tint may be an error? What's your qualified professional opinion?