Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[JasonWard]

Maybe Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru took some pictures with Anakin and Padme at the homestead.

That said, Luke and Vader can feel one another's presence as you've pointed out. That's good enough for me. The idea that Luke worked it out using commonsense also works for me.

[Jumpman]

Not when it comes to plot holes and missing information. If I have to go do reaserach to find out who say Sifo-Dyas is then why is it even mentioned in the film? I would ask George but I doubt he would give me a good answer.


The film mentions who Sifo-Dyas is. You just didn't take it a face value. Many thought that there would be another twist to it when there actually wasn't.

Try again.

[JasonWard]

During the writing process, an early draft implied it was Sidious and the name is derivative of Sidious. That said, Lucas did change that and pulled away by the final draft.

Jango wasn't lying when he said he was recruited by a man named Tyranus and Tyranus wasn't lying when he said the republic was being controlled by a Sith lord. The clones were ordered by a Jedi named Sifo-Dyas. It turns out that entire block of the film was true and there was no mystery there.

The Viceroy probably went to Dooku for help which led him to Sidious where he was seduced. Syfo-Dyas was probably a comrade of Dooku who commissioned the clones just in case. Dooku was seduced and then murdered Syfo-Dyas before he could expose the conspiracy. That's how I read the story based on the evidence.

I do think it is still one of the looser ends of the saga and it should have been explained in that end scene with Yoda and Obi-Wan before "begun the Clone Wars have."

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Not when it comes to plot holes and missing information. If I have to go do reaserach to find out who say Sifo-Dyas is then why is it even mentioned in the film? I would ask George but I doubt he would give me a good answer.


The film mentions who Sifo-Dyas is. You just didn't take it a face value. Many thought that there would be another twist to it when there actually wasn't.

Try again.

ok I will try again.

Pretty important role with regards to the CLONE ARMY to give a just a few sentences about him. I really think a large portion of people that went to see these films walked away with a real disconnect with the characters and events. Like many others have said and I agree with that too much is implied "like we are supposed to already know" or we are supposed to accept that so much happended off screen and is just mentioned in passing.

[whaleman]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Fair point. That was just more convincingly portrayed I guess--at least for me. Anakin's sudden turn to become Sidious's apprentice was very jarring to me, while I thought the build up to Vader turning to good again at the end was more believable. Seeing your son being tortured to death is a more convincing motive for turning good, than some nightmares about your spouse dying causing you to turn evil. Especially since he already knew all that stuff and still turned Sidious in only to betray the masters for no real real new reason during the fight.

In any case, I'll bow out as I hate debating Star Wars stuff. Wasted way too much time on that back when the prequels first came out and don't want to waste more time discussing movies I'm not all that fond of (despite my online alias that I wish I hadn't of picked back then--but still use to be consistent across forums I've posted on)!

After Padme died, didn't Darth Vader want to kill the Emperor and rule the galaxy on his own? So I've always just wondered, in RotJ when he destroys the Emperor, wasn't he accomplishing what he would have wanted to do anyways, just seizing the opportunity? Yeah, he did save his son, but this was also after the Emperor was calling for Luke to finish Darth. I've always kind of wondered is this really enough to "return to being good"? Maybe it was a mix of being so fed up with being double crossed by the Emperor so many times. I wonder if he knew he would kill himself in the process.

[JasonWard]

I think it is a given he knows he's giving his life to save his son. By dying in the process, he's not achieving the Sith's goals.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

These are just spiteful, subjective rantings. In the end nobody can definetely say why George Lucas does something. We can just judge from his work. The movies - even the Sequel-Trilogy that you allegedly like are conveying messages of loyalty, friendship, love, bravery and modesty especially to children. In a time where religious fundamentalism, greed and general moral decay threatens our planet I am glad that these 6 movies can now reach a new generation. Who cares if some conservatives want Han or Greedo to shoot first - I don't even know what's supposed to be the right version. It's so small-minded. What matters is the integrity of the 6-part saga as a whole.

Great Post Andy

But there is one thing that is wrong. Star Wars in 1977 was NOT aimed at kids. In fact in Sept of 1977 Kenner and the toy lines were scrambling all of a sudden to even get toys out by Christmas (and they failed). Lucas had no intention of "toys" in May and the summer of 77. In fact most people didnt get any toys that Christmas because they were not ready in time so you could buy vouchers. I know because I got a lot of vouchers that x mas that we could not redeem until Jan and Feb of 78.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Breather

Well said.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Great Post Andy

But there is one thing that is wrong. Star Wars in 1977 was NOT aimed at kids. In fact in Sept of 1977 Kenner and the toy lines were scrambling all of a sudden to even get toys out by Christmas (and they failed). Lucas had no intention of "toys" in May and the summer of 77. In fact most people didnt get any toys that Christmas because they were not ready in time so you could buy vouchers. I know because I got a lot of vouchers that x mas that we could not redeem until Jan and Feb of 78.

The very first thing that I was able to get my hands on were those great Wonder-Bread cards, and that 1978 calendar.

Boy...I sure was in heaven with just those measly things.

[Cowboy]

Me too....had the Wonder Bread cards and then collected Blue, Red, Yellow, Green and Orange colored sets of cards. In fact still have all the cards in binders. Also still have all my Starlogs, Famous Monsters and Fantastic Films rags, Comic Books #1-6 etc.. I was in heaven when it came to Star Wars or Empire Strikes Back stuff. Did not collect stuff around Jedi though...must have got to old by then.

[Monolithium]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Not when it comes to plot holes and missing information. If I have to go do reaserach to find out who say Sifo-Dyas is then why is it even mentioned in the film? I would ask George but I doubt he would give me a good answer.

Also I would like to know what the definition of "Fanboy" is.

I'm pretty sure the answer would be this...

The Bearded One: Sifo-Dyas was originally called Sido-Dyas. Simple spelling error. You get those when you turn in a first draft as the final script.

As for the definition of a "Fanboy"...

The Bearded One: It's a fan that is also a boy. Girls can't be fans because they have those squishy girl emotions that make me uncomfortable.

[Jumpman]

No, he changed the spelling of the character so it wouldn't give away who we all knew was behind the creating of the Army in the first place.

Seriously, are people arguing over Sifo-Dyas?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by JasonWard

I really don't follow you here. We know why he turned to the dark side. He turned to the dark side because he was promised the secret to immortality. He took the bait, made a deal with the devil and paid for that.

We see him kill the Tuskens because they killed his mother. Blanket hatred in that instance is conceivable. But that is not entirely his decent towards the dark side, it just shows he is capable of killing mercilessly because his passions get the better of him. He's done this kind of killing before and Palpatine brings that out of him to kill Dooku.

If you get it on Blu-ray, you'll see that we know why he turned. The how and why is more than answered in the films themselves.

That's kind of my point, though.

He was brutal before before being 'seduced' by the dark side. He went from cute, lovable little Ani to somebody who would murder children (and no, slaughtering children is not a normal, understandable reaction to a personal tragedy) if you pissed him off enough and we don't really know why. That's a huge leap and it was just -- there.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by octagon

That's kind of my point, though.

He was brutal before before being 'seduced' by the dark side. He went from cute, lovable little Ani to somebody who would murder children (and no, slaughtering children is not a normal, understandable reaction to a personal tragedy) if you pissed him off enough and we don't really know why. That's a huge leap and it was just -- there.

What are you talking about? The Tusken Raiders killed his mother that he loved deeply and was propably carrying a lot of guilt for leaving her behind. On the other hand the Tuskens all are faceless and look kind of the same. That makes it easier to see them just as "monsters". On top of that Anakin has lots of bottled up fear and is being held back by his master.

His held back enormous powers explode in a ball of rage as he avenges his mother. After that he is devastated by his failure as portrayed beautifully in the haunting garage scene.

After crossing that first treshold it gets easier to kill in the Clone Wars, to kill Dooku, Mace, the Younglings and the Separatist-leaders. "If you're not with me - You're my enemy." He dehumanizes his victims as he did the Tusken years ago.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by octagon

He was brutal before before being 'seduced' by the dark side. He went from cute, lovable little Ani to somebody who would murder children (and no, slaughtering children is not a normal, understandable reaction to a personal tragedy) if you pissed him off enough and we don't really know why. That's a huge leap and it was just -- there.

Greedo shooting first caused ripples in the timeline.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by BLU_Until_The_End

But ultimately, GL decided to use the young Anakin to tie the two trilogies together...just my $.02...

Technically, Sebastian Shaw looked like Anakin had he never been burned, not as Anakin looked at any point in life, so I don't mind Hayden C's younger Anakin being inserted into ROTJ. It doesn't change the intent of the scene, unlike with the Han/Greedo revisions.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Danielle Ni Dhighe

Technically, Sebastian Shaw looked like Anakin had he never been burned, not as Anakin looked at any point in life, so I don't mind Hayden C's younger Anakin being inserted into ROTJ. It doesn't change the intent of the scene, unlike with the Han/Greedo revisions.

100% correct - I never got why people were sooooooo damned irked by the Christiansen change. Its just another item on a sadly long list of pointless complaints. Geesh.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

100% correct - I never got why people were sooooooo damned irked by the Christiansen change. Its just another item on a sadly long list of pointless complaints. Geesh.

Actually it's a prett big complaint, especially in light of the fact that they are selling the OT seperate from the PT and the whole saga. I won't even go into the ghost thing again.....they should have just sold the 97SE in the sepearate set. Then you would have the Lucas changes but still kept the two trilogies seperate unless you wanted the "complete saga" then you could have had the 2004 edit plus additional edits.

Problem solved. Everyone almost happy....

[rdkimes]

I think it's funny how much people get into all the film changes and the differences between the originals and special editions. I think Lucas should have made this blu-ray set to order just like people do when they go to have a computer built. Set up a website where you can choose all cover art, which editions of the movies, what special edition scenes added or left out..etc. Customize your own Star Wars blu-ray set!!

Man...if only it were that easy. But there would be tons of money to be made!!

[Rizor]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

100% correct - I never got why people were sooooooo damned irked by the Christiansen change. Its just another item on a sadly long list of pointless complaints. Geesh.

I think I would have liked it better if they'd actually filmed Hayden's entire body and put him into the scene. As it is, there's a strange floating head pasted over Sebastian Shaw's body. Lucas could have told Christensen to look proud of Luke and act more golden-boyish. But Lucas doesn't direct actors and instead we have Anakin giving his creepy "Please don't look at me like that" look.

[Blu-man08]

Originally Posted by Rizor

I think I would have liked it better if they'd actually filmed Hayden's entire body and put him into the scene. As it is, there's a strange floating head pasted over Sebastian Shaw's body. Lucas could have told Christensen to look proud of Luke and act more golden-boyish. But Lucas doesn't direct actors and instead we have Anakin giving his creepy "Please don't look at me like that" look.

It actually looks like footage taken of Hayden doing a costume test or something.