Older HD

[FilmmakingFiasco]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

just saying, wondering if Hd experience would be as good for such early works, but with b+w it definatly won't.

Comments like this make me really, really sad. I actually watched scenes from Casablanca last night at a friend's house. I have to tell you, HD adds so much depth and clarity to a black and white film. The blacks are really deep and everything stands out so well.

It also bothers me when people say "I don't want to buy that movie in HD because it's a comedy and comedies don't benefit like blockbusters do". It's high def, all content is slowly moving that way and if mastered properly, most content will benefit from high def.

[meckel]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

Comments like this make me really, really sad. I actually watched scenes from Casablanca last night at a friend's house. I have to tell you, HD adds so much depth and clarity to a black and white film. The blacks are really deep and everything stands out so well.

It also bothers me when people say "I don't want to buy that movie in HD because it's a comedy and comedies don't benefit like blockbusters do". It's high def, all content is slowly moving that way and if mastered properly, most content will benefit from high def.

+1

Robin Hood and Casablanca never looked or sounded better. Can't wait to upgrade from HD to Blu (found them both cheap, used or I would have waited). Would live to see older films release on BluRay. Wizard of Oz, Singing in the Rain, The Big Sleep, and so on

[Kratos3]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

Comments like this make me really, really sad. I actually watched scenes from Casablanca last night at a friend's house. I have to tell you, HD adds so much depth and clarity to a black and white film. The blacks are really deep and everything stands out so well.

It also bothers me when people say "I don't want to buy that movie in HD because it's a comedy and comedies don't benefit like blockbusters do". It's high def, all content is slowly moving that way and if mastered properly, most content will benefit from high def.

I agree. There are so many GREAT movies that were done in B&W and it's a shame that more people don't see them. I, for one, can't wait til some of the older movies are remastered for BD. The depth, detail, and dimensionality of these movies would be incredible! Movies like Casablanca, A Streetcar Named Desire, On The Waterfront(I love Brando), ANY Hitchcock movie, The Big Sleep, Citizen Kane, The Third Man, and countless others would greatly benefit from an HD transfer(it is in color, but I can't wait for Vertigo on BD!).

You have to remember, these movies were all shot on film. The detail you can capture on film is practically limitless. Now, through the course of time with the degradation of the negatives and crappy transfers you don't always see what it is capable of. But remastered B&W films are stunning!

Disregarding older films just cuz they're B&W doesn't make sense to me, but hey, to each his own. Go through the AFI 100 greatest movies and you will see what I mean.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I agree. There are so many GREAT movies that were done in B&W and it's a shame that more people don't see them. I, for one, can't wait til some of the older movies are remastered for BD. The depth, detail, and dimensionality of these movies would be incredible! Movies like Casablanca, A Streetcar Named Desire, On The Waterfront(I love Brando), ANY Hitchcock movie, and countless others would greatly benefit from an HD transfer(it is in color, but I can't wait for Vertigo on BD!).

You have to remember, these movies were all shot on film. The detail you can capture on film is practically limitless. Now, through the course of time with the degradation of the negatives and crappy transfers you don't always see what it is capable of. But remastered B&W films are stunning!

Disregarding older films just cuz they're B&W doesn't make sense to me, but hey, to each his own. Go through the AFI 100 greatest movies and you will see what I mean.

Penton-Man confirmed a while back on the Insiders thread that Sony has done a 4k scan of On the Waterfront---I'll jump on it the day it's released.

[sonicbox]

Casablanca in high-def is often used as demo material for high-end theater installations. It shows how well high-def media can reproduce a restored classic B&W film print.

Anyway, the current tell-tale sign is the awful sales of almost every vintage 'classic' film on high-def. The current market is full of people that only want movies that look like Crank and Cars... and fear so-called grain.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by sonicbox

Casablanca in high-def is often used as demo material for high-end theater installations. It shows how well high-def media can reproduce a restored classic B&W film print.

Anyway, the current tell-tale sign is the awful sales of almost every vintage 'classic' film on high-def. The current market is full of people that only want movies that look like Crank and Cars... and fear so-called grain.

But then again, consider...please, PLEASE consider...that we're talking about "Alibi Ike" Warner, legendary for coming up with every excuse imaginable for why their product failed in the marketplace, except the one having to do with "they made the mistake".
(This is the studio that came up with no less than SEVEN excuses for why "Batman & Robin" failed at the box office, before hitting on the correct one. Two months later.)

So, with only Warner's flights of hyperdefensive fancy to go by, will we ever know for certain that Robin & Rick had poor sales because:
- "It was early in the industry",
- "The promotion needed greater focus--Too bad it didn't reach the public at the right time."
- "We need to reach a standard on how to approach 4:3 movies...The early adopters seem to want widescreen".
- "We're still pitching our demographic to the Early Adopter audience, they prefer more contemporary action",

...Or someday, when the light of sanity dawns:
- THEY WERE IN FREAKIN ' HD!...WHO DID THEY EXPECT TO BUY IT??

[BoogalooShrimp]

Though not black and white, I'd like to see Rebel Without a Cause in HD. James Dean's red jacket would look quite striking in HD. Natalie Wood would also look quite striking now that I think about it.

[Knight-Errant]

How about Robert Wise's 1963 The Haunting? Now there's a scary classic that'd benefit from lossless audio hehe

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by BoogalooShrimp

Though not black and white, I'd like to see Rebel Without a Cause in HD. James Dean's red jacket would look quite striking in HD. Natalie Wood would also look quite striking now that I think about it.

When Blu-ray is firmly the standard, when there are more BD production plants, when HD is more widely adopted and Blu-ray players are in the homes of millions, when prices of production and retail have dropped, then we will see all these old classics on Blu-ray. Classics are a niche market and don't sell as well as new-release popular blockbusters, but to ultimately overlook that market would be a serious mistake.

...so start bringing on my favorites, please

[Kratos3]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Penton-Man confirmed a while back on the Insiders thread that Sony has done a 4k scan of On the Waterfront---I'll jump on it the day it's released.

NICE!!

[rodgerse]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I agree. There are so many GREAT movies that were done in B&W and it's a shame that more people don't see them. I, for one, can't wait til some of the older movies are remastered for BD. The depth, detail, and dimensionality of these movies would be incredible! Movies like Casablanca, A Streetcar Named Desire, On The Waterfront(I love Brando), ANY Hitchcock movie, The Big Sleep, and countless others would greatly benefit from an HD transfer(it is in color, but I can't wait for Vertigo on BD!).

You have to remember, these movies were all shot on film. The detail you can capture on film is practically limitless. Now, through the course of time with the degradation of the negatives and crappy transfers you don't always see what it is capable of. But remastered B&W films are stunning!

Disregarding older films just cuz they're B&W doesn't make sense to me, but hey, to each his own. Go through the AFI 100 greatest movies and you will see what I mean.

Noones arguing how good b+w films were.critically speaking, I'm sure they're quit comparable to any modern one, but the pure viewing expericence is diminished withouhtt color.

The question is really what the limit of Hd film capability is.I don't think you could go much farther than 1930s technicolors like robinhood, wizard of oz or gone with the wind before clearly seeing the difference between the older and modern hd releases.

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

but the pure viewing expericence is diminished withouhtt color.

Not so for films which were artistically filmed in B & W. Have you ever seen a good print of Jean Cocteau's La Belle et la Bête?
Or High Noon? I'd never want to see them in color.

[FilmmakingFiasco]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Noones arguing how good b+w films were.critically speaking, I'm sure they're quit comparable to any modern one, but the pure viewing expericence is diminished withouhtt color.

The question is really what the limit of Hd film capability is.I don't think you could go much farther than 1930s technicolors like robinhood, wizard of oz or gone with the wind before clearly seeing the difference between the older and modern hd releases.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't know what a "pure viewing experience" is but there are MANY films that are visually baffling that are in B&W. As someone who has shot films in both B&W and color (on 8mm, 16mm, DV and HD) as great as color can look, I enjoyed playing and working with lighting in B&W.

These older Warner films, that have been scanned in at 4k, since about 1998, and have been remastered, will look amazing. Technicolor films will have a different tone to them than modern films but they won't be any less demo material.

[rodgerse]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't know what a "pure viewing experience" is but there are MANY films that are visually baffling that are in B&W. As someone who has shot films in both B&W and color (on 8mm, 16mm, DV and HD) as great as color can look, I enjoyed playing and working with lighting in B&W.

These older Warner films, that have been scanned in at 4k, since about 1998, and have been remastered, will look amazing. Technicolor films will have a different tone to them than modern films but they won't be any less demo material.

Well I was just wondering how the old color method tittles would compare, considering the early use of it.Its just that its that an old, but color film might look, especially in hd compared to modern, but b+w just look good in its own way.

and 4k?that really just sounds like a huge over-scan for the sake of preservation.Can film really be scanned that high withought just being a bunch of static and grain, how much higher than hd can it go?.

[FilmmakingFiasco]

Originally Posted by rodgerse

Well I was just wondering how the old color method tittles would compare, considering the early use of it.

and 4k?that really just sounds like a huge over-scan for the sake of preservation.Can film really be scanned that high withought just being a bunch of static and grain, how much higher than hd can it go?.

Scanning 35mm film in a 4k is a full resolution scan, no overscan.

[Kratos3]

Originally Posted by FilmmakingFiasco

Scanning 35mm film in a 4k is a full resolution scan, no overscan.

Yes. This guy gets it. I was trying to say this(apparently unsuccessfully) in a previous post. The detail and resolution that can be captured on film is beyond the human eye's ability to see. If you saw the Blade Runner Final Cut you know what a 4K scan can do for a film. Chances are, most of the B&W movies most of us have seen were the result of degradation of film stock and were less than great transfers b/c they were being transferred for low-res TV or VHS. I feel that BD has the potential to show older B&W movies the way they were seen in their orginal theatrical showings. At least this is what I hope for.

But as I said before, to each his own, and I do see what you're getting at rodgerse. I too would LOVE to see some of the older color films in all their Technicolor glory. Wizard of Oz, Vertigo, Rear Window, etc. To see them in full, vibrant color, and not the washed out, faded versions we've grown up with would be amazing. See "The Searchers" reviews to see what they can do with older color films.