The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by dncpunke

I did not feel like sifting through pages upon pages to see if this has been brought up yet so.......

I was a supporter of having each movie on 2 blu rays. However, I popped FOTR Disc 1 into my Blu drive on my PC to watch and noticed that this disc had 28.7GB worth of data. Curious now, I popped them all in to see and here is what I found:

FOTR Disc 1 - 28.7gb
FOTR Disc 2 - 33.3gb Total 62gb

TT Disc 1 - 28.7gb
TT Disc 2 - 34.4gb Total 63.1gb

ROTK Disc 1 - 34.8gb
ROTK Disc 2 - 37.2gb Total 72gb

I thought the reason these were released on two blu rays each was so the audio and video had room to "breathe"? Well there is plenty of unused space left on each disc.

Huh? Well I'm no expert but the BD 50 gb disc is what was used in this set and since all your values go over that I'm not sure what you are trying to say? Seems using your numbers there was no choice but to use 2 BDs for each film given the bit rate. If you crammed one disc to capacity it would have came up 12gb short for FOTR, 13.1gb short for TT and 22gb short for ROTK.

[dncpunke]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Huh? Well I'm no expert but the BD 50 gb disc is what was used in this set and since all your values go over that I'm not sure what you are trying to say? Seems using your numbers there was no choice but to use 2 BDs for each film given the bit rate.

What I am saying is there is alot of wasted space on the BD 50's. Could they have done better or would it have been overkill? I am not complaining by any means. Just curious is all. Not asking to cram....asking to use what was available to them....100gb per movie

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by dncpunke

What I am saying is there is alot of wasted space on the BD 50's. Could they have done better or would it have been overkill? I am not complaining by any means. Just curious is all. Not asking to cram....asking to use what was available to them....100gb per movie

I see. Still not sure what it could have done in regards to improving what's there, but, maybe the special features could have been incorporated into the extra space.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I think this screen shot is a very good example. Simply because by looking at the Dead Army in ROTK this color change brings this more in line with consistency overall. So in this case the screen shot illustrates two very important things, one being the green tint is unarguable and two, it serves to improve the shot in the film and make it consistent with ROTK. Which by the way has been the best presentation in the entire set IMO.

Except for the fact that the dead army was selectively digitally graded to be specifically green. Them being green did not affect the entire image. This is a perfect example of digital grading, where one portion was given a specific color bias rather than the entire frame. When the dead army enveloped Sauron's army the entire frame wasn't altered, only the dead army.

The dead kings / Ring Wraiths are not the Dead of Dunharrow, they are completely different things. The Wraiths were never green (when seen with the ring) in that scene prior to this release, always white/off-white. The Dead of Dunharrow always were. It has nothing whatsoever to do with consistency.

[42041]

Originally Posted by dncpunke

I did not feel like sifting through pages upon pages to see if this has been brought up yet so.......

I was a supporter of having each movie on 2 blu rays. However, I popped FOTR Disc 1 into my Blu drive on my PC to watch and noticed that this disc had 28.7GB worth of data. Curious now, I popped them all in to see and here is what I found:

FOTR Disc 1 - 28.7gb
FOTR Disc 2 - 33.3gb Total 62gb

TT Disc 1 - 28.7gb
TT Disc 2 - 34.4gb Total 63.1gb

ROTK Disc 1 - 34.8gb
ROTK Disc 2 - 37.2gb Total 72gb

I thought the reason these were released on two blu rays each was so the audio and video had room to "breathe"? Well there is plenty of unused space left on each disc.

This is Warner. As far as I can tell, they are not aware that blu-ray has a 50GB capacity. They would leave a third of the disc empty even if they put the films on one disc: just look at everything else they release. There are studios who could pull that off, WB is not one of them.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by 42041

This is Warner.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Except for the fact that the dead army was selectively digitally graded to be specifically green. Them being green did not affect the entire image. This is a perfect example of digital grading, where one portion was given a specific color bias rather than the entire frame. When the dead army enveloped Sauron's army the entire frame wasn't altered, only the dead army.

Right, and I was pretty fair in my post as to that being evident or at least just as definitive.

The dead kings / Ring Wraiths are not the Dead of Dunharrow, they are completely different things, they Wraiths were never green in that scene prior to this release.

Correct. Could be a revision in color choice from Jackson, but, that would be speculating. Since the whole film is tinted it becomes hard to speak to any specific intent.

I will say one thing has crossed my mind recently, we all seem to agree that some scenes benefit and some scenes suffer from the blanket tinting. How much, is debatable and falls into the realm of ones personal opinion. I personally believe that what we have is what PJ intended. However, what's been bugging me is that I hope it wasn't a lazy move on his part. Rather than doing a shot by shot grading and just saying, "screw it, most of the film benefits from the green so just apply it throughout." A move like that from a director would really discourage me. Whichever the case may be, what is on display in FOTR is absolutely stunning PQ wise, IMO.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by 42041

This is Warner. As far as I can tell, they are not aware that blu-ray has a 50GB capacity. They would leave a third of the disc empty even if they put the films on one disc: just look at everything else they release. There are studios who could pull that off, WB is not one of them.

What do you got against warner. As far as i am concerned they are the best company. They release more tv shows on blu ray then any other. They release more catalogue titles like any other. And to top it all off they a region free. Warner is the studio that supports blu ray more then any other studio.

And they leave the space for multiple languages in different regions. The PQ is still topnotch so why are you complaining about disc space. I coud see if the PQ or AQ was bad. But that isn't the case at all. The PQ and AQ is top notch even with disc space left.

And just for your information all studios where the movie is on a 50GB disc got disc space left not just warner.

[Aerodude73]

Earlier today I watched disc 1 of FOTR & didn't see or have any major issues with this alleged Green Tint or "Hue". Yea, early in the movie, the Grass & moss, branches/leaves, etc., Were a Vibrant green, but I didn't really detect any tint or whatever, at all

I'll try to get to disc 2 to finish it Sunday

[Show spoiler](had to leave after the 1st part to head to Boston; Red Sox game)

.

Anyway, I thought the PQ was Outstanding for the most part, & the Audio... Good Lord, Holy Intense LFE, a Sub lovers' Heaven if you ask me. For that matter, the entire Audio track is freakin' SUPERB; With Impeccable Detail from the Front L/R soundstage, Clear dialogue from the Center, & some nice activity from the Surrounds. The Surround activity, so far anyway,

[Show spoiler](just from 1/2 of FOTR)

, isn't as active as I suspect will be the case for the 2nd & 3rd movies (much more Action in those 2), but it does still have a few nice shining moments in FOTR.

It was very nice Not to have to "matrix" a 5.1 track into my 7.2 set-up. The 6.1 DTS-HD MA took care of Everything in the Audio dept. I can't wait to finish the Trilogy, especially since I never watched any of the Extended Editions, just the theatrical release for each in the theaters.

[nathan_393]

Originally Posted by Goldengirl

Take a break and look at PJ's 2nd "The Hobbit" video production diary--just out.

http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ

That was well worth watching; many thanks for the link!

[Evra]

Only thing I dislike about the trilogy is the fact the extras are in DVD format I ordered this from the US and I don't have a region free DVD player.

[little flower]

Later today I am going to watch all 3 films of Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy on Blu-ray. It's night right now and it's after midnight. Soon I shall go to sleep and when I wake up I shall watch The Lord of the Rings (The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King).

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by little flower

Later today I am going to watch all 3 films of Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy on Blu-ray. It's night right now and it's after midnight. Soon I shall go to sleep and when I wake up I shall watch The Lord of the Rings (The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King).

I don't know if you've been told but we're not allowed to post transcripts from Lesnie's diary. Once he actually watches these everyone here expects him to let us know how he feels.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by little flower

Later today I am going to watch all 3 films of Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition Trilogy on Blu-ray. It's night right now and it's after midnight. Soon I shall go to sleep and when I wake up I shall watch The Lord of the Rings (The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King).

I finally finished RotK tonight.
One of these would come in handy for watching them all in one sitting.

[Show spoiler]

[HeKS]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I will say one thing has crossed my mind recently, we all seem to agree that some scenes benefit and some scenes suffer from the blanket tinting.

Hi Troy73,

I'm not sure that statement is accurate. I'm fairly sure that those of us who have a significant issue with the green tint have also pointed out that the improvements over the TE that some are attributing to the green-tint (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien, etc.) are actually improvements resulting from the new scene-by-scene color grading made to the new master BEFORE the addition of the blanket green tint.

I'm not sure we've come across a single instance where a color change that both sides have agreed is an improvement boils down the green tint. If anything, it seems like the green tint negatively offsets the improvement gained by the new color grading.

Take care,
HeKS

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Troy73,

I'm not sure that statement is accurate. I'm fairly sure that those of us who have a significant issue with the green tint have also pointed out that the improvements over the TE that some are attributing to the green-tint (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien, etc.) are actually improvements resulting from the new scene-by-scene color grading made to the new master BEFORE the addition of the blanket green tint.

I'm not sure we've come across a single instance where a color change that both sides have agreed is an improvement boils down the green tint. If anything, it seems like the green tint negatively offsets the improvement gained by the new color grading.

Take care,
HeKS

Exactly! I hope that someday we'll all get to see the new color grading changes in all of their untainted glory.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi Troy73,

I'm not sure that statement is accurate. I'm fairly sure that those of us who have a significant issue with the green tint have also pointed out that the improvements over the TE that some are attributing to the green-tint (eg. Council of Elrond, Lothlorien, etc.) are actually improvements resulting from the new scene-by-scene color grading made to the new master BEFORE the addition of the blanket green tint.

I'm not sure we've come across a single instance where a color change that both sides have agreed is an improvement boils down the green tint. If anything, it seems like the green tint negatively offsets the improvement gained by the new color grading.

Take care,
HeKS

Well I was hoping in some small way we all had some common ground and could see the point of view from the other sides stand. I guess that was really foolish of me. I have tried to see it from your guys side and have posted as much, but, you are completely unwilling to even try to see this as a "potentially" intended thing. I blame myself for even engaging in this debate again as I knew in doing so would be pointless. So, like Ken said I've become part of the problem. I guess my only recourse is to simply overlook certain posts. I don't use ignore on members as you never know if something that they say may be interesting.


I did like how the thread was going there for awhile, but, then suspensions got lifted and here we are again. I would like to think that we all are multifaceted enough to appreciate other aspects of this release, yet when I brought up doing as much I was met with ridicule and eye rolling posts from some members. Look, I'm not saying you need to agree with me, but, it is very small minded when you can't even slightly entertain other possibilities.


You can post 1000 screen shots. You can post reviews from 1000 websites. You can even get 1000 forum members to see your side of things. However, at the end of the day all that means nothing. Your total and complete energy would be better served taking all that analysis and image correction to WB and Peter Jackson so they can see how wrong what they've done is in your opinion.


I hope all of you have at least expressed you discontent at the website that forum member Farid linked. I also hope that all members on here who actually appreciate this set voice that with equal conviction at the same website, just as I have.

[Petyr_Baelish]

I don't think it can be said for certain the green tint is a mistake. I look at screenshots like this...

https://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/4509_10_large.jpg

...and it appears to be some kind of trend.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by HeKS

Hi El_Jay,

In regards to your statement that I've bolded, I think it's only partially true. As far as I've been able to gather from my testing, it seems like a lot of love and attention went into FOTR and THEN the tint was applied over top, negatively affecting all the love and attention that went into the intentional scene-by-scene regrade.

What I've also found is that the scene-by-scene regrade of the new master seems to have uniformly brought it into closer conformity with the coloring of TT and ROTK, whereas they were some marked differences in previous releases.

In fact, "fixed" screen shots of FOTR scenes that have flashbacks in the other films - at least ones that attempt to do nothing but remove the tint and leave what's under it as untouched as possible - seem to show that the regrading of those scenes would now closely match the flashbacks in the other films were it not for the green tint.

This latter point is something worth keeping in mind when considering posts like the one linked to a few pages ago showing that Merry's vest is now orange in FOTR compared to yellow in the ROTK flashback. The counter-argument has been offered that there has always been a difference between flashbacks to FOTR and the original FOTR shot, but if the new regrading (prior to the green tint) brought FOTR more in line with the coloring of the other films, then arguments that there have always been color differences in flashbacks as a way of explaining how Yellow Vest > Orange Vest could be intentional lose a lot of their force.

Take care,
HeKS

Good post. I agree with you here. I've mentioned in other posts in this thread that I do think the transfer would be excellent, but it's the green tint and only the green tint holding it back. Maybe my phrasing was poor, but what I meant by "careful attention was not paid" or whatever, was just related to the green tint. Aside from that, I would absolutely love the transfer. Even now, I am quite a fan, I just can't be 100% positive about it.

Originally Posted by merrick97

Oh dear lord.

I was enjoying the debates on the story and how it translated to film, but I come back and see that its back to the same old green crap.

My advice to everyone who doesn't mind the green is to just leave the thread and not start another shouting match.

For everyone else who is still debating the green, I wish you best of luck on your endevours and if it turns out that it can be proven undisputably that this was an error, please let me know and at that point I will gladly take part in any crusade to get the correct discs.


Dinky Stinky, my avatar would like a word with yours

If you want to hear discussions about the translation of book to film you can dig up any of literally thousands of them on the internet that have sprung up since 2001. Every single aspect of this discussion has been covered over the past 10 years. It's not as if LOTR making the transition from book to movie is unique to this EE Blu-ray release.

You don't have to like the green tint discussion, but you don't have to gripe about it. I think the story discussions are superfluous and unnecessary, and should probably be contained to a thread specifically discussing it, but I haven't felt the need to complain about it.

I agree completely with the bolded though, it is quite sensible.

[El_Jay]

I also want to add that i came across this post from "Penton-Man" and I think it is fascinating, for many reasons.

Please enjoy.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You know, I haven’t spoken much to that ‘green’ subject directly, out of respect to P.J. because he has a good heart and is a Director to be respected. I feel he has always had his fans in best interest and in the end, for people who have already made more money than they could probably spend in their lifetime, it all comes down to your legacy, and for a filmmaker, that means how you will be remembered by your fans long after you stop making motion pictures.

This whole online green tint controversy with FOTR has left a rather bad taste in my mouth. I just wonder if PJ is being handcuffed by *the machine* in not personally offering a response, or at least, having an associate who was directly involved in the color grading, respond to this online controversy.

For some perspective as to why I feel this way, a little history lesson is in order, the significance of which should not be discounted. Back when the second film in the trilogy was being shown in cinemas, one guy and I emphasize the word ONE

had a reservation with some other digital intermediate color grading choices made for that particular motion picture. Now, granted this individual was somewhat adept at recognizing picture quality nuances given his affiliated work/profession but, he was by no means a digital colorist, cinematographer, etc. nor a member of any Guild associated with filmmaking. He was posting on a rather obscure message board on the internet and his query was presented more as a concerned cinephile and hobbyist….like most folks here. Hell, nobody on that message board even knew him from Adam…so to speak. I know him now, and I consider him a fine fellow.

Anyway, this one hobbyist’s query prompted a filmmaker directly involved in the post production process of TTT and who identified himself as speaking about the topic after consulting with both PJ and Andrew L., to extensively address the concerns of this hobbyist with an online response.

So now, here we are, nearly a decade later, and we have hundreds (if not thousands?) wondering what the heck is up with the green tint ………..and not a word from PJ….much less from one of his colleagues who was physically present in the DI suite and whom really are the only ones that folks can trust as to addressing the nuances of the process….rather than vague third-party statements.

I can sympathize with peoples’ frustrations on this matter. It really does make one wonder.

Thanks for the post, Penton-Man!

I definitely agree about Peter Jackson truly caring about his legacy and his fans, and I am confident that at some point we will finally get some clarification on this matter one way or another.