Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yep. Because it's one big story. Hence the "Episode Chapters" at the start of every film. It fits it better than the Ghost of Humpty Dumpty.

And they were concieved and produced as a cohesive whole. Just that some aspects changed over time. Happens with any story.

But they fit together regardless of one minor change to the ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's all one big story.

I wouldn't consider the change to Hayden Christiansen as the Skywalker ghost minor. Considering he's EASILY one of the worst actors in the world, it's a MAJOR change and EPIC fail to even have cast him in the role in the first place!

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Strevlac

I don't care about the director. I care about the film that was made by a crew of people and released for public consumption.

Well, Lucas has often said, "films are never finished; they're only abandoned", and he's also repeatedly stated his main desire is to do now, what he never could with the 1970s film industry. His design for "Star Wars" was so much bigger than what was released, and so he's trying his best to improve them, to match what he intended them to be. Its not that he hates the fanbase, but at the same time, he's exercising his creative right to do what he wants. If you don't like it, don't buy it...but complaining around here won't make anything better.

[Jay444]

Lucas calls them classic verisions now, so start calling them the same as he does. Just saying if you are going to drink his Kool-Aid, drink the new improved nicer sounding flavor. Calling them inferior is a way to rile up the kids here and get us off topic again (not to mention it is quite demeaning). Some of you have to learn to choose your words a bit more carefully.

Anyway, those screen shots look nice and I am liking the news I am hearing.

Does anyone know if the Mods could update the first post of this thread with the factual details regarding this release that we already know? (i.e. no Classic Cuts, 6.1 audio, the info on the bonus discs, how many discs are in each set). That way people don't have to hunt through the endless flame war to find basic info?

[Jumpman]

I don't think he's embarrassed. I just think that certain aspects of the first film have always bothered him...and he just couldn't let them go. If I had the money and the tech and it bothered me that much, I'd change them.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

I don't think he's embarrassed. I just think that certain aspects of the first film have always bothered him...and he just couldn't let them go. If I had the money and the tech and it bothered me that much, I'd change them.

That would certainly explain changing them but it doesn't explain the antipathy toward releasing the classic cuts.

Though maybe antipathy isn't really the right word anymore. He does seem to be thawing somewhat. Certainly not fast enough for my liking but if you put every billionaire who ever ignored me in a room you'd have, well, all of them.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, Lucas has often said, "films are never finished; they're only abandoned", and he's also repeatedly stated his main desire is to do now, what he never could with the 1970s film industry. His design for "Star Wars" was so much bigger than what was released, and so he's trying his best to improve them, to match what he intended them to be. Its not that he hates the fanbase, but at the same time, he's exercising his creative right to do what he wants. If you don't like it, don't buy it...but complaining around here won't make anything better.

Well, see, I don't care about anything you just said. I don't care what Lucas said. Like I said before, I care about the film that was released to audiences in 1977.

I guess I'm just different than most of the people in this thread in that I don't idolize directors, or anyone else for that matter. There are certain people in the film industry whose work I admire but I don't give them a pass when they release something I don't like or go back years after the fact a change stuff around (hence my comments on the Chaplin films) and withdraw the original from public access. I didn't like it when Universal did it with Touch of Evil either.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by octagon

Wait. You're sitting in a theater in 1977, they get to Mos Eisley and you think 'geez, this kinda sucks...this isn't how I pictured a spaceport on Tattoine at all'?

Seriously? You sure you're not doing your own little mini-retcon here?

Yep. It has pretty much always bugged me. It's supposed to be a major spaceport on Tatooine and looks a backlot with no budget for extras.

It's certainly not the only issue I have with ANH. And ESB is a huge leap forward in numerous areas. ANH has always looked out of place.

But again, we're getting off topic. This is about the Blu-Ray release. Let's try to minimize the stream of consciousness.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yep. It has pretty much always bugged me. It's supposed to be a major spaceport on Tatooine and looks a backlot with no budget for extras.
It's certainly not the only issue I have with ANH. And ESB is a huge leap forward in numerous areas. ANH has always looked out of place.

But again, we're getting off topic. This is about the Blu-Ray release. Let's try to minimize the stream of consciousness.

Really? Just how old were you in 77? I was 12 and there was no way on earth I was thinking that with the only frame of reference for Sci Fi effects films at the time were Logans Run and Slient Running......how did you feel about the shark in Jaws in 75? Looked real to me at 10 years old......did it to you? Or did you sit in that theater in 75 and say man the shark looked fake?

So how did ANH look out of place in 1977? Anyone else here see SW in 1977/78 and think it was out of place? If you think it was so out of place then what will the BD's do to it? No amout of makeup wil hide the warts in full 1080p will it?

[Jumpman]

octagon,

His apathy towards them has to do with the future, a period of time when he's not here anymore while Star Wars still goes on.

There is a generation and a lot more to come who didn't see Star Wars in their fractured released state. There's a generation and more of new fans who will see this saga from I to VI.

And to him, there's no two different trilogies. It's one saga and he wants a unified look (however unattainable that is) to the entire thing...and if that means fixing things that have always bothered him, that he always felt were inferior and not up to the level of what he envisioned from the get go, he's going to change it. That's how he thinks.

He needs it to be as close to his vision as possible, even if that means doing three slightly different versions of the Original Trilogy...alterations that probably take no more than 10 minutes of screen time over the course of 3 two hour films. That's nothing to him. It's window dressing.

Lucas doesn't think of Star Wars in terms of the generation that fell in love with it from the very start. He thinks of Star Wars in terms of the generations that will discover it as one long after he's gone. And, he wants it represented in as close to how he envisioned it as possible...even if he can never get there.

That's his right.

[ckocher]

The way I look at it, Lucas gave us the classic versions on dvd a few years back, even though he didn't want to, but he did. And yes, I know they were non-anamorphic and basically the laserdisc transfers, but at least we got them.

These are his movies, not ours. We may feel so attached to them that we take offense every time he tries to change things, but ya gotta remember, these are his movies. He can do what he wants.

I can honestly tell you that any enhancements that have been made, I feel, make the films better in some way. Except that whole Greedo shooting first thing, that was lame.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

If you don't like it, don't buy it...but complaining around here won't make anything better.

Also, can we knock it off with dumbass comments like this? It's a discussion forum, i.e. the perfect place to discuss issues like this.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by ckocher

These are his movies, not ours. We may feel so attached to them that we take offense every time he tries to change things, but ya gotta remember, these are his movies. He can do what he wants.

Every movie has an owner(s). What does that have to do with anything?

[JoshKelhoffer]

It's funny, someone called the original cuts inferior. Yes, in terms of visual effects they are inferior.

When it comes to the special editions, no one ever looks past the issue of CGI and judges the quality of the scenes themselves. It's just usually "old school effects are out dated" and "CGI sucks."

The pacing was far better in the original cuts. The Jabba scene is pointless and stops the pace of the film. Greedo misses a target barely three feet away. The song and dance number is just flat out retarded.

Also, a lot of the effects utilized in the 1997 and 2004 editions are now themselves inferior. The problem with CGI is that its constantly getting better, and at the same time, it is constantly going out of date.

Even worse, those additions clash with the rest of those films. It goes from smudgy looking CGI to old school chroma key and model effects. Then later, during the raid on the Death Star, shots like the grungy looking Tie Fighters leaving the docks are left in, clashing with the new shots.

On the contrary, though, the Death Star sequence is one of the few additions I liked, because it actually improved upon the effects, without completely stopping the movie. It was just a visual improvement, not a redundancy or a pointless CGI joke. If the rest of the additions were like that, without compromising the structure and pace of those films, kind of like the changes made to ESB, then I'd have no complaints.

The worst addition was the shot of Vader's shuttle arriving in the Star Destroyer. There is literally a jump in the audio mix when this happens. It's also kind of pointless. We know Vader is leaving for the shuttle. Are we as audience members that deficient that we have to have the dots connected for us?

All in all, the original films are now some kind of "frankenstein monster" pieced together with fragments of old school footage, "modern technology," scenes left on the cutting room floor ("Biggs!" and Jabba) and its noticeable.

[kurtlingle]

Originally Posted by jyenor

For every person you mention in your post you can find a dozen children who only know Star Wars from The Clone Wars and the prequels.

Yep.

And my kids think the OT looks old and outdated. They like them, but the 70's hair, etc. They can't believe anyone who likes the OT doesn't like the PT. They think it's crazy.

[gallandro]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yep. It has pretty much always bugged me. It's supposed to be a major spaceport on Tatooine and looks a backlot with no budget for extras.

It's certainly not the only issue I have with ANH. And ESB is a huge leap forward in numerous areas. ANH has always looked out of place.

But again, we're getting off topic. This is about the Blu-Ray release. Let's try to minimize the stream of consciousness.

I always had an issue with the red/orange blob under the landspeeder where they were trying to fudge out the wheels. Probably didn't notice it the 1st time or the 2nd, but by my 5th viewing in 77 it reall really bugged me.


Yancy

[MCT]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

It's funny, someone called the original cuts inferior. Yes, in terms of visual effects they are inferior.

When it comes to the special editions, no one ever looks past the issue of CGI and judges the quality of the scenes themselves. It's just usually "old school effects are out dated" and "CGI sucks."

The pacing was far better in the original cuts. The Jabba scene is pointless and stops the pace of the film. Greedo misses a target barely three feet away. The song and dance number is just flat out retarded.

pffft. "Pacing"....dude, there's an extra Jawa at the famed Mos Eisley spaceport!! And three extra random droids the obscure the view even more when Stormtroopers are interrogating Obi Wan. Oh and did you miss that rad dinosaur and the pointless robot that smashes another smaller pointless robot? The spaceport is now ALIVE, and that's way more important that silly things like pacing.

plus its sooooo COOL to see Boba Fett break the fourth wall and stare directly at the fanboys as the greatest "nothing" character of all time makes his debut in ANH. We also get to see Bowser I mean Jabba get pWnd by Han Solo when he steps on the feared crimelords tail and points in his face. You don't know what you're talking about. Lucas made ANH 103840398902380x better with those major changes.

[22soultaker]

The problem with puppets and CGI is Puppets will last forever. I mean Yoda has looked so good in the Original star wars for over 30yrs. With CGI no matter what in 5-10 years or the rate things are going even less. We will all say "wow Yoda looks sooo fake" Too me the untouched original release always will look more realistic. Sorry but even when Han steps on Jabbas tail i think it looks pretty bad. Its sad when CGI jabba looks worse then Puppet Jabba. Thats just my thought. I mean look at E.T, or Jaws both Puppets/Animatronics and will last a life time.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by 22soultaker

The problem with puppets and CGI is Puppets will last forever. I mean Yoda has looked so good in the Original star wars for over 30yrs. With CGI no matter what in 5-10 years or the rate things are going even less. We will all say "wow Yoda looks sooo fake" Too me the untouched original release always will look more realistic. Sorry but even when Han steps on Jabbas tail i think it looks pretty bad. Its sad when CGI jabba looks worse then Puppet Jabba. Thats just my thought. I mean look at E.T, or Jaws both Puppets/Animatronics and will last a life time.

I've always thought most CGI instances look too sterile. A lot of CGI is still missing an "organic" component that models have.

[Reference_head]

Off topic from the blu rays but in starwars 3 has anyone else ever wondered why when yoda and obi-wan talked about who’s going to fight who. It made no sense that they didn’t both confront (kill/try) the emperor first (he was just down the street after all), and then both find and kill Vader together? (Plus having the last two Jedi’s in their prime go into hiding while the rest of the galaxy dealt with tyranny for 18 long years was kind of strange as well lol). Great movies though i can’t wait.

[Reference_head]

Off topic from the blu rays but in starwars 3 has anyone else ever wondered why when yoda and obi-wan talked about who’s going to fight who. It made no sense that they didn’t both confront (kill/try) the emperor first (he was just down the street after all), and then both find and kill Vader together? (Plus having the last two Jedi’s in their prime go into hiding while the rest of the galaxy dealt with tyranny for 18 long years was kind of strange as well lol). Great movies though i can’t wait.