The Official Acoustic Audio Subwoofer Owners Thread - Page 180 - Blu-ray Forum

theJman · 09-26-2011, 07:42 PM

OK, so this is weird...

I don't see any RWSUB-12's on ebay, so I sent an email to AA's customer service asking if they still sell them that way. Here's what I get back:

Unfortunately we do not. We do, however, have them at our direct store at http://www.thedeepdiscount.com

I just checked their ebay store and it looks to me like every single other subwoofer they sell -- regardless of size or color -- is listed, yet this one model is excluded?

WTF is that all about?? They even offer it as part of a package, but not separately? That defies all logic, and common sense, if you ask me...

theJman · 09-26-2011, 11:37 PM

Looks like you might be able to call me duneaholic or mj79 real soon.

I got a "response" (and I use that term loosely) from AA's "customer service" (and I use that term loosely as well) to my previous inquiry when I asked why there were no RWSUB-12's in their ebay store.

This is what I wrote back to them:
Is that a temporary situation by chance? Looking at your ebay site I see a listing for every other subwoofer Acoustic Audio makes, just not the RWSUB-12. It's even available as part of a package (http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-1-In-Wall-...item5d2f8ce671), so I guess you do/have offered them previously? If not, do you know why that one model has been omitted?

I do see them on thedeepdiscount.com but ebay is a more cost effective way for the consumer to purchase something, so I'd rather go that route instead.

This is what they replied with:
Thank you for contacting TheDeepDiscount.com. Your business is important to us. Thank you for letting us know.

Letting them know what exactly? Um, hello, Mcfly, is there anybody paying attention their? That answers all of my questions perfectly, doesn't it?

This is getting kinda funny, but in a sad way though. I wonder where this journey will lead me...

frogmort · 09-26-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theJman

Looks like you might be able to call me duneaholic or mj79 real soon.

I got a "response" (and I use that term loosely) from AA's "customer service" (and I use that term loosely as well) to my previous inquiry when I asked why there were no RWSUB-12's in their ebay store.

This is what I wrote back to them:
Is that a temporary situation by chance? Looking at your ebay site I see a listing for every other subwoofer Acoustic Audio makes, just not the RWSUB-12. It's even available as part of a package (http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-1-In-Wall-...item5d2f8ce671), so I guess you do/have offered them previously? If not, do you know why that one model has been omitted?

I do see them on thedeepdiscount.com but ebay is a more cost effective way for the consumer to purchase something, so I'd rather go that route instead.

This is what they replied with:
Thank you for contacting TheDeepDiscount.com. Your business is important to us. Thank you for letting us know.

Letting them know what exactly? Um, hello, Mcfly, is there anybody paying attention their? That answers all of my questions perfectly, doesn't it?

This is getting kinda funny, but in a sad way though. I wonder where this journey will lead me...

That might just be an automated response to let you know that they received your email. They might send you a proper response later.

theJman · 09-27-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogmort

That might just be an automated response to let you know that they received your email. They might send you a proper response later.

It was from a droid all right, but it certainly wasn't automated...

Actually, this one had a sig from the same guy that the first email did -- Colby -- so I suspect it was really their response.

jsil · 09-27-2011, 01:49 AM

My room is 14'Wx17'Lx8'H and opens to my kitchen do you guys think I need 2 subs and what size. I looking for a very good hard slam that you can feel.

JJ · 09-27-2011, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsil

My room is 14'Wx17'Lx8'H and opens to my kitchen do you guys think I need 2 subs and what size. I looking for a very good hard slam that you can feel.

That's a puny sub-2000 cubic feet. I have just one in an 8000 cubic foot open air space. Position it right for your seating spot, and you'll be fine. It's about placement for your sweet spot. Now, you'll need more subs if you want even response across the entire room, for all your guests.

frogmort · 09-27-2011, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ

That's a puny sub-2000 cubic feet. I have just one in an 8000 cubic foot open air space. Position it right for your seating spot, and you'll be fine. It's about placement for your sweet spot. Now, you'll need more subs if you want even response across the entire room, for all your guests.

I live in a fairly small place, but I love having the smooth response and powerful reserve of two subwoofers. It also sounds much better in just my sweet spot with two.

theJman · 09-27-2011, 03:28 PM

Well that didn't take long... the saga has already ended, and like some of you have (painfully) found out when dealing with DD, it didn't end well...

My previous request -- see above -- to have them simply clarify what "Thank you for letting us know" actually meant was greeted by this lovely bit of customer service:
I have already explained to you that they are not sold as singles anymore but in packaged deals. This is how the Manufacturer has them set up. (note how he claims I was told previously that it's only sold as part of a package, something which never actually occurred)

To which I retorted:
What you told me made absolutely no sense, which is why I asked if you could clarify. So to recap; you sell the RWSUB-12 as an individual item on your website, but not as an individual item in your ebay store? Sounds like a brilliant strategy. That seems to match the lack of customer focus evident in your attitude, which is not surprising I guess.

I can certainly understand the frustration some of you have voiced at the treatment you've received. If this is any indication of their typical apathy I wouldn't be happy about it either. As a consumer you have to understand there will be gaps in product quality, business management and customer service when buying such a low cost alternative, but the more I read this thread the larger those gaps seem to become. I haven't gotten through the entire thing yet, so the service may turn around at some point, but if this guy answering my email is any indication I don't imagine that's going to happen.

theJman · 09-27-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theJman

The one problem I expected to see with a very low budget sub like this hasn't surfaced to any great degree (in what I've read thus far) - defective amps.

My biggest concern with such an inexpensive product would be fire-hazard amps. Even though I've read a tremendous number of pages it's only 5-6 months after the thread was opened, so there's no way to gauge longevity just yet. Based upon the price some of you have paid at ebay auctions I'm thinking Yugo of subwoofers, but it appears like that might not be the case.

It appears as though I may have to correct myself here...

I've gotten further into this thread, and it seems that towards the end of 2009 amps started dropping like flies. I'm up to April of 2010 now, and there's no sign of it letting up yet. I actually stopped counting when I got to 10 people with similar issues, and with a little more than 100 owners listed in the first post that roughly equates to a 10% attrition rate.

Big Daddy · 09-28-2011, 12:07 AM

Plate amplifiers on subwoofers have created problems for a few companies, including AV123 and Elemental Designs. Many of these amplifiers are assembled in low wage countries under very difficult conditions. Although the amplifiers on AA subwoofers became problematic over a a while ago, it seems that the vast majority of the new batch of amplifiers are trouble free.

I own three AA subwoofers in addition to another ten subwoofers. Almost all of them have been modified. Two of the AA subwoofers (HD-SUB 12 and PSW-8) were purchased in the late 2008. The third one, an HD-SUB 15, was purchased a few months ago. Even though I have modified the subs and put different drivers in them, the amplifiers on all three have worked without any problems at all.

Currently, the HD-SUB 12 has a Dayton driver from Parts Express in it and the HD-SUB 15 has a massive 15" Planet Audio car subwoofer driver in it. I use and abuse the subwoofers regularly and yet the performance of the AA subwoofers have been impressive. Considering that I only paid $169 plus free shipping for the 15" HD-SUB 15, the amplifier alone is worth more than that.

Don't ask me why I modify things. It is a disease.

I have multiple computers in the house and almost all of them have been built or modified by me.

theJman · 09-28-2011, 02:04 AM

I've definitely seen your posts scatter throughout this thread. Where you find the time to write all this stuff is beyond me, but prolific barely seems appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Plate amplifiers on subwoofers have created problems for a few companies, including AV123 and Elemental Designs. Many of these amplifiers are assembled in low wage countries under very difficult conditions. Although the amplifiers on AA subwoofers became problematic over a a while ago, it seems that the vast majority of the new batch of amplifiers are trouble free.

No doubt. eD has had all kinds of troubles, with amps certainly being among them. And I've often wondered if AV123 wasn't killed off by that very issue. Of course, the owners indictment on charity fraud might have had something to do with it as well.

I was able to get through almost all of the thread now, and I did see the trend appear to change. Based upon pictures of the amp from the beginning posts versus those in the last ones it's quite obvious the design is entirely different. I never saw where DD made the people who got shafted by the bad amps whole though, which frankly they really should have.

It almost reminds me of that Ford slogan from the 1980's: "have you driven a Ford lately?". Basically, the underlying tone was that we screwed millions by producing crap vehicles but now we have our act together, so come spend money on us again and see. But no, we aren't going to make good on the junk we sold you before so just forget about that, OK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Don't ask me why I modify things. It is a disease.

I have multiple computers in the house and almost all of them have been built or modified by me.

Your wife must be a saint. I can just picture what it's like in a typical night at your house...

you: sitting in the living room watching LOTR or something, with the sound being pumped through 48 subwoofers (while you're building number 49).

her: in the kitchen preparing dinner. then suddenly, a shriek is heard! from the other room your lovely wife's voice turns into something diabolical as she screams from the top of her lungs "why the h#ll did you put a turbocharger on my blender!?!"

you: turning down the volume (but only slightly, of course) you sheepishly reply "but honey, it's much better now"

her: "i knew i should have locked that d@mn cabinet. he's driving me nuts..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Considering that I only paid $169 plus free shipping for the 15" HD-SUB 15, the amplifier alone is worth more than that.

This is the part that irks me the most. I have seen countless posts from people who have picked up these subs on ebay for some insane prices, yet the one and only model I'm looking for is the one and only model they don't sell on ebay. To buy the RWSUB-12 I would have to pay just $20 less then you paid for an HD-SUB 15, which is like 3 or 4 models above it. That's completely asinine, and makes absolutely no sense.

The other problem is the TheDeepDiscount user has shown up maybe 5-6 times since this threads inception, and has steadfastly refused to acknowledge anyone or anything it seems. He/she shoots in, drops a "check out our sale!" or a "have you driven a Ford lately?" -- ooops, I mean, "we have better subs now!" -- message and then splits.

Personally, I think if nothing else they owe YOU a lot more then that. You've been their biggest cheerleader since day one, and probably their best salesman to boot. The least they could do is show up and participate. Well, that's my 2 cents anyway. I'll hop off my

Soapbox, a flamboyant impromptu/nonofficial publich speech

now.

Blu-Benny · 09-28-2011, 03:58 PM

pulled the trigger on a PSW-12 this morning....hoping it's as good as people say they are.

theJman · 09-28-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

pulled the trigger on a PSW-12 this morning....hoping it's as good as people say they are.

Are you planning on using this for HT or audio?

theJman · 09-30-2011, 02:31 AM

I decided to throw in the towel on AA and head in a different direction. Still with a budget sub -- and another unknown manufacturer -- but one that (hopefully) will make a better accounting of themselves. They're called Theater Solutions (TS), and can be found at OnlyFactoryDirect.com

As you might expect, BD has a thread dedicated to Theater Solutions. Of course he owns one too -- and he's already modified it! -- so everything is status quo it seems...

What I found interesting was the fact that AA and TS share a few significant traits:

The actual manufacturer has little-to-no product information on their own website. AA might as well not even have a website, quite frankly. TS's is much better, but they don't show their subwoofers properly either.
You can buy them from only one place, and that's an on-line distributor who (seemingly) has no connection to the respective manufacturer.
Each has an ebay store that sells products for less than what you can get them for on the "regular" website. That's where I ultimately got mine.
There are units with 8", 10" and 12" drivers, configured as down-firing or front-firing.
The spec's quoted by both AA and TS -- except for the physical dimensions -- are virtually identical for everything they sell. That means a sub with an 8" driver performs the exact same as one with a 12" driver. Must be some type of magical components they use.

AA has one big advantage over TS that I could see; their subwoofers can be had with several different wood veneers, while the ones from TS are only available in black. That's according to the text on their website though; the photo's of them sure don't look black to me. I'll be able to verify that when mine comes.

TS, on the other hand, has several key benefits that a few of the folks on this thread might find interesting, primarily because they've been a bone of contention for a number of you:

The quoted FR has a lower extension of 25Hz, and on my ebay receipt it even says +-2dB. That seems far more plausible then the fantasy-based 20Hz that AA tries to delude people with.
There's a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee, that even includes free return shipping! You can return opened products as well, another item I know was quite an issue for many here.
You have a full 60 days to send in your warranty card, not the paltry 10 days AA gives. That enables you to actually decide if you're going to keep the subwoofer before you send in the warranty info.
And speaking about warranty... it's for the life of the subwoofer! OnlyFactoryDirect gives you a lifetime warranty on defects in material and workmanship. I have to imagine something like that would have been very helpful for anyone who got burned by the batch of defective amps a little while back.

Once I weighed everything it seemed my choice was clear, so I went with TS. I won't know if it was the correct decision for a while yet, but on paper it certainly appears that way. Time will tell though...

drmittens · 09-30-2011, 03:52 AM

Jman- just curious as to why you seemed so compelled to buy the down fire model and not the HD which has more power?

I have bought the HD-15" a few months ago and couldn't be happier and impressed considering the $140 I paid.

Just curious as to why you bought the lower quality model for more than a better and more powerful sub and not be satisfied.

What drew to purchase that particular model?

Did you play with the location of the sub and have it tuned corectly?

While I was on the market for subs I also liked the BIC F12 which seened to get good reviews, maybe something else to consider.

theJman · 09-30-2011, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmittens

Jman- just curious as to why you seemed so compelled to buy the down fire model and not the HD which has more power?

I have but one place to put a subwoofer, so for me there are no options. Unfortunately, that place is in an area where the sub must either be not very deep or can be placed within a few inches of the rear wall. That precluded the HD series, because of the rear port.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmittens

Just curious as to why you bought the lower quality model for more than a better and more powerful sub and not be satisfied.

There's no way of telling if I bought "the lower quality model" until I get my hands on it. For all I know it might be significantly better then an AA, but at this point there's really no saying which it will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmittens

While I was on the market for subs I also liked the BIC F12 which seened to get good reviews, maybe something else to consider.

I am indeed familiar with the F12 -- and it seems to be regarded quite well --but it's too deep and it has a rear port, which makes it unworkable for my situation. I had also looked into the V1220 and V1020 (the 1020 was a close 2nd to what I chose).

Since TS has a 30 day money back guarantee I figured why not make myself the guinea pig and see if they're any good, or just utter garbage. If it's the former then we'll have another low-cost alternative. If it's the latter then I'd like to know that as well. I suspect there are others who might find value in that info too.

browndk26 · 09-30-2011, 02:50 PM

Jman

Which model did you order?

theJman · 09-30-2011, 07:01 PM

The Sub12D. I wanted the Sub12F instead, but the size was going to make it a bit more prominent then I would have liked. Although there are those who purport that no difference exists between front-firing and down-firing my experience has proven otherwise, so I always go for FF if I can. Since there's a 30 day money back guarantee if it turns out the DF is not working I'll simply swap it.

Blu-Benny · 10-01-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejman

are you planning on using this for ht or audio?

ht

theJman · 10-01-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

ht

Me too. Guess we'll have to compare notes then.

09-26-2011, 07:42 PM	#3581
theJman Senior Member Member since:Sep 2011 Location:New Joisey	Huh? OK, so this is weird... I don't see any RWSUB-12's on ebay, so I sent an email to AA's customer service asking if they still sell them that way. Here's what I get back: Unfortunately we do not. We do, however, have them at our direct store at http://www.thedeepdiscount.com I just checked their ebay store and it looks to me like every single other subwoofer they sell -- regardless of size or color -- is listed, yet this one model is excluded? WTF is that all about?? They even offer it as part of a package, but not separately? That defies all logic, and common sense, if you ask me...

09-28-2011, 12:07 AM	#3590
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	Plate amplifiers on subwoofers have created problems for a few companies, including AV123 and Elemental Designs. Many of these amplifiers are assembled in low wage countries under very difficult conditions. Although the amplifiers on AA subwoofers became problematic over a a while ago, it seems that the vast majority of the new batch of amplifiers are trouble free. I own three AA subwoofers in addition to another ten subwoofers. Almost all of them have been modified. Two of the AA subwoofers (HD-SUB 12 and PSW-8) were purchased in the late 2008. The third one, an HD-SUB 15, was purchased a few months ago. Even though I have modified the subs and put different drivers in them, the amplifiers on all three have worked without any problems at all. Currently, the HD-SUB 12 has a Dayton driver from Parts Express in it and the HD-SUB 15 has a massive 15" Planet Audio car subwoofer driver in it. I use and abuse the subwoofers regularly and yet the performance of the AA subwoofers have been impressive. Considering that I only paid $169 plus free shipping for the 15" HD-SUB 15, the amplifier alone is worth more than that. Don't ask me why I modify things. It is a disease. I have multiple computers in the house and almost all of them have been built or modified by me. Last edited by Big Daddy; 09-28-2011 at 09:08 PM.

09-30-2011, 02:31 AM	#3594
theJman Senior Member Member since:Sep 2011 Location:New Joisey	I changed direction I decided to throw in the towel on AA and head in a different direction. Still with a budget sub -- and another unknown manufacturer -- but one that (hopefully) will make a better accounting of themselves. They're called Theater Solutions (TS), and can be found at OnlyFactoryDirect.com As you might expect, BD has a thread dedicated to Theater Solutions. Of course he owns one too -- and he's already modified it! -- so everything is status quo it seems... What I found interesting was the fact that AA and TS share a few significant traits: The actual manufacturer has little-to-no product information on their own website. AA might as well not even have a website, quite frankly. TS's is much better, but they don't show their subwoofers properly either. You can buy them from only one place, and that's an on-line distributor who (seemingly) has no connection to the respective manufacturer. Each has an ebay store that sells products for less than what you can get them for on the "regular" website. That's where I ultimately got mine. There are units with 8", 10" and 12" drivers, configured as down-firing or front-firing. The spec's quoted by both AA and TS -- except for the physical dimensions -- are virtually identical for everything they sell. That means a sub with an 8" driver performs the exact same as one with a 12" driver. Must be some type of magical components they use. AA has one big advantage over TS that I could see; their subwoofers can be had with several different wood veneers, while the ones from TS are only available in black. That's according to the text on their website though; the photo's of them sure don't look black to me. I'll be able to verify that when mine comes. TS, on the other hand, has several key benefits that a few of the folks on this thread might find interesting, primarily because they've been a bone of contention for a number of you: The quoted FR has a lower extension of 25Hz, and on my ebay receipt it even says +-2dB. That seems far more plausible then the fantasy-based 20Hz that AA tries to delude people with. There's a 30 day no questions asked money back guarantee, that even includes free return shipping! You can return opened products as well, another item I know was quite an issue for many here. You have a full 60 days to send in your warranty card, not the paltry 10 days AA gives. That enables you to actually decide if you're going to keep the subwoofer before you send in the warranty info. And speaking about warranty... it's for the life of the subwoofer! OnlyFactoryDirect gives you a lifetime warranty on defects in material and workmanship. I have to imagine something like that would have been very helpful for anyone who got burned by the batch of defective amps a little while back. Once I weighed everything it seemed my choice was clear, so I went with TS. I won't know if it was the correct decision for a while yet, but on paper it certainly appears that way. Time will tell though...

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09-26-2011, 11:37 PM	#3582
theJman Senior Member Member since:Sep 2011 Location:New Joisey	Looks like you might be able to call me duneaholic or mj79 real soon. I got a "response" (and I use that term loosely) from AA's "customer service" (and I use that term loosely as well) to my previous inquiry when I asked why there were no RWSUB-12's in their ebay store. This is what I wrote back to them: Is that a temporary situation by chance? Looking at your ebay site I see a listing for every other subwoofer Acoustic Audio makes, just not the RWSUB-12. It's even available as part of a package (http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-1-In-Wall-...item5d2f8ce671), so I guess you do/have offered them previously? If not, do you know why that one model has been omitted? I do see them on thedeepdiscount.com but ebay is a more cost effective way for the consumer to purchase something, so I'd rather go that route instead. This is what they replied with: Thank you for contacting TheDeepDiscount.com. Your business is important to us. Thank you for letting us know. Letting them know what exactly? Um, hello, Mcfly, is there anybody paying attention their? That answers all of my questions perfectly, doesn't it? This is getting kinda funny, but in a sad way though. I wonder where this journey will lead me...

09-27-2011, 01:49 AM	#3585
jsil Active Member Member since:Apr 2011 Trading Score:19	My room is 14'Wx17'Lx8'H and opens to my kitchen do you guys think I need 2 subs and what size. I looking for a very good hard slam that you can feel.

09-27-2011, 03:28 PM	#3588
theJman Senior Member Member since:Sep 2011 Location:New Joisey	Well that didn't take long... the saga has already ended, and like some of you have (painfully) found out when dealing with DD, it didn't end well... My previous request -- see above -- to have them simply clarify what "Thank you for letting us know" actually meant was greeted by this lovely bit of customer service: I have already explained to you that they are not sold as singles anymore but in packaged deals. This is how the Manufacturer has them set up. (note how he claims I was told previously that it's only sold as part of a package, something which never actually occurred) To which I retorted: What you told me made absolutely no sense, which is why I asked if you could clarify. So to recap; you sell the RWSUB-12 as an individual item on your website, but not as an individual item in your ebay store? Sounds like a brilliant strategy. That seems to match the lack of customer focus evident in your attitude, which is not surprising I guess. I can certainly understand the frustration some of you have voiced at the treatment you've received. If this is any indication of their typical apathy I wouldn't be happy about it either. As a consumer you have to understand there will be gaps in product quality, business management and customer service when buying such a low cost alternative, but the more I read this thread the larger those gaps seem to become. I haven't gotten through the entire thing yet, so the service may turn around at some point, but if this guy answering my email is any indication I don't imagine that's going to happen.

09-28-2011, 03:58 PM	#3592
Blu-Benny Michael Bay's #1 Fan Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Wisconsin Home Theater Gallery:39 Blu-ray collection:552 DVD collection:108 Trading Score:138	pulled the trigger on a PSW-12 this morning....hoping it's as good as people say they are.

09-30-2011, 03:52 AM	#3595
drmittens Senior Member Member since:Nov 2010 Location:the 954 son! Blu-ray collection:67	Jman- just curious as to why you seemed so compelled to buy the down fire model and not the HD which has more power? I have bought the HD-15" a few months ago and couldn't be happier and impressed considering the $140 I paid. Just curious as to why you bought the lower quality model for more than a better and more powerful sub and not be satisfied. What drew to purchase that particular model? Did you play with the location of the sub and have it tuned corectly? While I was on the market for subs I also liked the BIC F12 which seened to get good reviews, maybe something else to consider.

09-30-2011, 02:50 PM	#3597
browndk26 Senior Member Member since:Dec 2008 Location:Louisville, KY Blu-ray collection:10	Jman Which model did you order?

09-30-2011, 07:01 PM	#3598
theJman Senior Member Member since:Sep 2011 Location:New Joisey	The Sub12D. I wanted the Sub12F instead, but the size was going to make it a bit more prominent then I would have liked. Although there are those who purport that no difference exists between front-firing and down-firing my experience has proven otherwise, so I always go for FF if I can. Since there's a 30 day money back guarantee if it turns out the DF is not working I'll simply swap it.

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