So what is SA-CD, anyway?

[CAB]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

Correction. The PS3 will play ANY SACD, period. HOWEVER, if you want to hear the album in multichannel, the only way to do it is via a HDMI connection with a receiver. Using optical out, you'll only get stereo sound.


fuad

The PS3 will do DSD to PCM and send it over the toslink? I understand that to be a violation of the player license. I believe it'd play the two-channel CD layer of a hybrid out the toslink.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by CAB

The PS3 will do DSD to PCM and send it over the toslink? I understand that to be a violation of the player license. I believe it'd play the two-channel CD layer of a hybrid out the toslink.

2 Channel PCM over toslink.
Unless you have a specific version of the firmware, in which case, it does violate the player license and output it in 5.1 DTS over toslink.

[CAB]

Originally Posted by reiella

2 Channel PCM over toslink.
Unless you have a specific version of the firmware, in which case, it does violate the player license and output it in 5.1 DTS over toslink.

That's something different than decode of DSD to 2 channel 24bit/96Khz PCM. My understanding is SACD players aren't supposed to do that over toslink because of the lack of copy protection.

[jhawkjd]

Originally Posted by JasonR

I think the reason it didn't replace cds is, who needs 5.1 surround audio in a car. I think travel is how most audio is played, while I have some DVD-A's and SACD's I can say say I don't need it in my vehicle...

Also, MP3s...

The Acura TL has had 5.1 surround since the 2004 model (DVD-A only which is unfortunate) In a Yugo, it would be wasted. But in the TL its outstanding. If only they would include a player that would play SACD-Multi. The DVD-A format is lacking because the releases have poor mixing. Most sound like the old Quadraphonic sound of the early 70s. Now if they would include an SD slot and play MP3s in the new multichannel format spec'd for MP3s... I'd love be be able to pop my music on an SD card and play it in my phone or in my car. (Could do it at home too, but why not go for the HIGH quality source.)

[darkpoet25]

I was shocked to see that Fry's has most, if not all of the SACD's and DVD-A's available at their stores. Nine Inch Nails--The Downward Spiral is another really good release on SACD. Trent Reznor did a great job of using the surrounds. I know Sound and Vision also really liked Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on both formats. I just wish Sony would have made more multichannel SACD's of Journey, Boston, and Aerosmith. I LOVE Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, and how the voices in On The Run went all around you. I was wishing for them to have The Wall on SACD, but that sadly will never happen now.

[moviefan]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

For audio-enthusiasts like myself, who listen to music in the home, SACD is like crack. Part of the reason this didn't "Replace CDs", is because of cost, and the internet. I'm willing to go out and pay for new discs, most aren't. My SACD dedicated player cost more than my PS3, so that could be part of your answer too..... most won't pay that much for what they percieve as "just music" Likewise, I have an older CD player (4 years now or 5 ?? ) .... just plays CDs, that's it.... and I got it for a steal at about $800..... People who don't appreciate good 2 channel audio will never understand those things, but to each his own...

Sounds like you know your SACDs betaman!
See my post above ... any thoughts on what may be the problem?

[dobyblue]

YOu can find lots of good recommendations here, but at www.sa-cd.net you can also find tons of reviews on items from SACD afficionados.

You can also see what's coming up, search by genre, see how many people recommended a particular title without writing a review, etc.

One thing I cannot stress enough - Stay AWAY from the Meatloaf - Bat out of Hell SACD. It is awful!! Find a copy of the vinyl and buy a record player, or stick with the CD version.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by moviefan

Sounds like you know your SACDs betaman!
See my post above ... any thoughts on what may be the problem?

Have you upgraded to firmware on the PS3 to the newest version? The only thing I can think, is that the PS3 isn't as good at decoding the data as a dedicated SACD player. Good luck though!

[BaronVH]

The problem is that many SACDs are not multichannel, but many people think that they are. Some are 2.0, some are 5.0 (remastered quadraphonic recodings), and some are 5.1. Many classical purists want famous recordings preserved as they were recorded, but you must realize that they are not all 5.1 (I bet most are not).

The other thing is that many people that have the capabilities to play the SACD track do not have their system set up to play it correctly and their system just defaults to the CD layer. On my setup you can only play SACDs if my DVD player is told to play the SACD layer, I use component audio, and have my reciever set to multi-channel in, but listening to Dark Side of the Moon in 5.1 is worth it.

The final thing is that there are no stores in my area, Little Rock, that sorts music by SACD. This really pisses me off, as it is near impossible to find. I have also run into problems on Amazon due to stocks being limited on certain titles making the ship dates to be months out on some performances.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by CAB

That's something different than decode of DSD to 2 channel 24bit/96Khz PCM. My understanding is SACD players aren't supposed to do that over toslink because of the lack of copy protection.

Hmm, I believe you're right there, that said I don't think I'm up for testing it on my ps3 versus my sacd player to figure it out [downstairs neighbor just had a kid and only sacd I have right now is NIN ].

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Have you upgraded to firmware on the PS3 to the newest version? The only thing I can think, is that the PS3 isn't as good at decoding the data as a dedicated SACD player. Good luck though!

I would venture the PS3 is better than the majority of standalone SACD players, using the Cell processor.

However, ideally you'd want a player capable of passing DSD through HDMI or iLink to a receiver that has DSD capabilities using a PCM1796 or PCM1792 DAC chip, so it never hits the PCM realm.

The $5000 Denon 5308CI features the PCM1792 DAC, which features direct DSD to analog conversion with a 132dB dynamic range.

For those not wishing to spend quite so much, the Onkyo 805, 875 and 905 all feature the PCM1796 DAC which features direct DSD to analog conversion with a 123dB dynamic range. The rather more expensive Denon 4308CI only has a PCM1791A DAC, capable of 113dB of dynamic range, which is below SACD specs. It still has a clock speed of 256fs, where fs = 44.1kHz, so it has DSD conversion as well. The Yamaha RX-V3800 also features the PCM1791A DAC.

Of course if you were to step up to the $6,999 Marantz SA-CD player then no doubt you'd blow away the PS3's playback, but you'd be forced to use high speed analog transfer and would be limited to Stereo only. (Which is really only a bad thing if you're a multi-channel guy, like I am)

I think the Oppo 980H at $169 matched with a TX-SR805 would be the most satisfying budget-minded way to listen to SA-CD's. The Oppo supports DSD out through HDMI and using DSD Direct mode the TX-SR805 gives you DSD>analog.

The only drawback to using DSD>analog, is there can be no bass management or processing placed on a signal, although to me this is no drawback at all.

[CptGreedle]

mp3 won because audio is not as important to most people as video. They can't hear the difference, so they don't care. It is easier to see the difference though.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by CAB

The PS3 will do DSD to PCM and send it over the toslink? I understand that to be a violation of the player license. I believe it'd play the two-channel CD layer of a hybrid out the toslink.

I added an addendum to my post.

Originally Posted by CAB

That's something different than decode of DSD to 2 channel 24bit/96Khz PCM. My understanding is SACD players aren't supposed to do that over toslink because of the lack of copy protection.

reiella is correct. I believe firmware 2.0 allowed DSD multichannel audio to be encoded as DTS 5.1; that's lossy compression, by the way. Firmware 2.10 took that away for whatever reason. While technically it's not a copy protection violation (as the DTS conversion is lossy), the firmware was not supposed to do that.


fuad

[Alex Pallas]

both formats lost because they are utterly DRM ridden and cant be copied/played on computer (w/out disc) or portable music player.

both formats dont show any notice in ABX either

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Alex Pallas

both formats lost because they are utterly DRM ridden and cant be copied/played on computer (w/out disc) or portable music player.

both formats dont show any notice in ABX either

DVD-Audio is perfectly copyable.
SACD is not.

They didn't lose because of this, because most people don't give a toss about backing up their collection.

Neither format was ever promoted, that was the hirez format's hamartia.
When released you needed to buy 3 pairs of RCA jacks and a receiver with multi-channel inputs (for surround); that was unpopular.

If they were to push SACD again through popular music, it would sell much better than it did 6 years ago, thanks to the advent of HDMI and much cheaper components and cables.

I can burn DVD-Audio discs at home. I started it because a lot of the tapers have been recording in 24-bit for sometime now, for live shows of artists that allow taping of their shows; Bela Fleck, Dave Matthews Band, Bruce Hornsby, etc. I have a few shows at 24/176.4, but most are 24/96.

My SACD collection I have no desire to back up, I don't need to do serious listening in my car or while I'm jogging. I do all my serious listening at my home theater, where the sound is best.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

For audio-enthusiasts like myself, who listen to music in the home, SACD is like crack. Part of the reason this didn't "Replace CDs", is because of cost, and the internet. I'm willing to go out and pay for new discs, most aren't. My SACD dedicated player cost more than my PS3, so that could be part of your answer too..... most won't pay that much for what they percieve as "just music" Likewise, I have an older CD player (4 years now or 5 ?? ) .... just plays CDs, that's it.... and I got it for a steal at about $800..... People who don't appreciate good 2 channel audio will never understand those things, but to each his own...

I have to agree with you completely, I play my sacd's and dvd audio disc through a
Denon dvd 5900 the player that retailed for more than most people would spend on a used honda. At $3,000 us dollars how many people would want to make that kind of commitment, but of course good players can be had for less, regarding surround sound in car applications I love the sound quality although I don't have a center channel so I get 4.1 in my car everyone who ever here's my systems both car and home always comment on just how clear and moving the experience is like hearing something beautiful for the first time. Just like regular cds not all recordings are a home run. if you like sound quality more than how many mp3's your ipod will hold then this might work for you, I have mp3's also and like them too. In the it's all about enjoyment of music. Hope this helps along with all the other great posts.
If your not sure if title sounds good some of us here might have the answer.

[ToEhrIsHuman]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

DVD-Audio is perfectly copyable.
SACD is not.

DSD may not be, but the CD/redbook layer on any hybrid SACD is readily rippable...have done so many times.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ToEhrIsHuman

DSD may not be, but the CD/redbook layer on any hybrid SACD is readily rippable...have done so many times.

As is the CD side of any DualDisc, but I didn't think we were discussing CD.

[ajc68]

It just doesn't make sense that in an era of home theatre quality for both picture and sound, that HD CD audio has not become a viable option. Could you imagine the tie-in with the marketing of HD movies if they had something prepared to go? This just goes to show how out of touch the music industry is and helps to explain its demise.

[Blu boy]

so would it be possible to get dvd audio play back on a ps3 through firmware upgrade?