HDMI cable? Does it make a difference?

[chad.miller99]

See you rag on me for not having a lot of post what does that have anything to do with what is talking about all i was saying is that i work in the electronics field and cheap cables arent that great...I mean you can list website after website after website but frankly ANYONE can create a website i mean you can put www.cheaphdmicables.com and of course its going to say they work fine and that PC world article is written by 1 guy whoopee, but if u knew anything about a good image get in contact with someone who works for the ISF (Image science foundation) and i guarantee they will tell you that those cables are not supported nor backed by the ISF to give you proper color reproduction.





QUOTE=blindcat87;587866]He is laughing because you came in here with a handful of posts under your belt, talking down to the entire population of the forum presenting points and pseudofacts that have long since been debunked, not only once, but at least half a dozen times recently on this forum.

I wish that we could get a cables sticky, of course since new folks can't seem to ever use the search function, I guess it is too much to expect them to read stickies as well.

BTW, just one more point for the about millionth time. Monster does not manufacture their own HDMI cable. Their cable is made in China by one of only a limited number of manufacturers. All HDMI cable in the entire US is made by this same limited number of manufacturers except for that sold by one company. That company is not Monster and it is not Monoprice. Even that company has their American made cable terminated in China. This is fact, you can research it for yourself.

And, once again, in case any other independent thinkers care to consider what is fact and what is hype, follow the links on this page and consider what the various discussions here tell you.

http://www.monstergreed.com/Index%20...about%20MC.htm

Here is a discussion on the origins of HDMI cable in the US. Keep in mind that while this site sells their own cable, they do not hesitate to tell you which of their cables were manufactured where and where it is terminated, and that certain giant cable maker's overachieving legal department hasn't been able to refute the information and make them take it down.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...m.htm?hdmiinfo

Here is that site's very useful and informative guide to HDMI cables. Notice that it does not constantly push their own, more expensive cable.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...n.htm?hdmidept

People would also learn a lot if they stopped listening to advertisments and participated in some discussions on forums like:

http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.audiocircle.com
http://www.audioholics.com
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/
just to name a few. All of them have either cable and interconnect subforums or multiple threads discussing them.

Chris[/QUOTE]

[chad.miller99]

You are totally misquoting me of course if its the same product buy it where ever its cheaper SAME PRODUCT, SHIT HDMI's are not the same so dont confuse it of course if its cheaper then buy it there...



richieb1971;589433]Just to put your mind at rest, buy the $100 cable and the $9 cable. Test them both, tell us your findings. I doubt you could tell the difference.

If Best buy sells Cars for $10, and Circuit city sells it for $20. Do you buy it from Circuit city because your TV cost $1000 and you want the absolute best quality? Because most of your opinions are that you need to spend the most to get the best.

Oh, thats right..........[/QUOTE]

[blindcat87]

If you can't figure out what is wrong with joining a forum, walking in with no history or establishment of your experience, education, or background, without any knowledge of the experience, and education of the people on said form, and starting out by insulting everyone in the discussion and claiming that you know more and have more experience than them, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. There are people here with many years of experience in audio/video, there are some with engineering degrees and many who work in the industry. But your experience and knowledge is superior to anyone here. Whether or not that is what you meant, that is the gist of your first post in this discussion. It is not a good way to start in a discussion when you have tons of posts and are known on a forum. It is worse when you are new and nobody knows who you are.

I gave you factual arguments. The sites I posted have references and documentation of their facts. The discussion forums I offered have collective centuries of experience and education in the audio/video realm. You can dismiss them if you wish, it does not change facts, it does not change reality.

I am not the most experienced or educated member of this forum by any means. I do, however have well over a decade of experience in audio/video. I have used Monster cable products, I have used products rated for professional/commercial broadcast uses, I have used generic products, I have used products from many other companies. Right now, most of my cabling is from Bluejeanscable.com after years of testing and switching between many brands, they are my favorite for performance and quality. But there is also nothing wrong with the quality of Monoprice cables. Their products are high quality. They maintain their low prices by dealing in bulk, keeping marketing to a minimum, and by dealing in corporate and institutional contracts.

Expensive cable companies take advantage of marketing hype and the difficulty in setting up a valid direct comparison. Human visual and audio memory only lasts for around 1 second or less at a level sufficient for critical comparison. This is a fact of biology and nothing can change it. Removing placebo effect requires that the test be blind to be valid, and for greatest validity should be double blind. If you have not done such comparisons involving a blind comparison with A/B switching, you have not made a valid comparison. Again, this is biology and you cannot alter that or the laws of physics.

Nobody is saying that there is no difference between cables. But the fact is that, with the limited number of original manufacturers for HDMI cable stock, HDMI cable of a particular gauge and a particular rating is consistent beneath the sheath. The differences lie in the shielding and in the termination. If the cable is rated for HDMI v1.3A, has sufficient shielding, and is terminated solidly and with quality connectors, it will do the job. Digital errors show up in a very distinctive manner. If you are not getting a downgrade in resolution (IOW your display will only go up to 720p with the interconnect), sparklies, blocking, digital snow, major color shifts, or dropouts, you are getting the signal and there is nothing out there that can paint your zeros and ones gold or make them shinier thus creating a superior picture. If the cable creates problems that the error correction capabilities of your hardware cannot handle, you will know it. If that doesn't happen, you are good to go. As I said, you don't have to take my word. You can check out the links I gave instead of dismissing them without even looking. Yes people can post false information, that is why people who care to maintain a reputation and to not get sued back up their information, which these sites do.

This site contains more information about HDMI v 1.3 including information on how digital errors present. Before you dismiss this site, this is a professional publication.

http://www.embedded.com/design/202803690

If you wish to clap your hands over your ears and say "LALALALA" until the end of time, it is no big deal to me. I just don't understand people's unwillingness to further educate themselves and to research information to determine if the opinions they hold are valid or if they need to revisit them. Up to you.

Chris

Originally Posted by chad.miller99

See you rag on me for not having a lot of post what does that have anything to do with what is talking about all i was saying is that i work in the electronics field and cheap cables arent that great...I mean you can list website after website after website but frankly ANYONE can create a website i mean you can put www.cheaphdmicables.com and of course its going to say they work fine and that PC world article is written by 1 guy whoopee, but if u knew anything about a good image get in contact with someone who works for the ISF (Image science foundation) and i guarantee they will tell you that those cables are not supported nor backed by the ISF to give you proper color reproduction.





QUOTE=blindcat87;587866]He is laughing because you came in here with a handful of posts under your belt, talking down to the entire population of the forum presenting points and pseudofacts that have long since been debunked, not only once, but at least half a dozen times recently on this forum.

I wish that we could get a cables sticky, of course since new folks can't seem to ever use the search function, I guess it is too much to expect them to read stickies as well.

BTW, just one more point for the about millionth time. Monster does not manufacture their own HDMI cable. Their cable is made in China by one of only a limited number of manufacturers. All HDMI cable in the entire US is made by this same limited number of manufacturers except for that sold by one company. That company is not Monster and it is not Monoprice. Even that company has their American made cable terminated in China. This is fact, you can research it for yourself.

And, once again, in case any other independent thinkers care to consider what is fact and what is hype, follow the links on this page and consider what the various discussions here tell you.

http://www.monstergreed.com/Index%20...about%20MC.htm

Here is a discussion on the origins of HDMI cable in the US. Keep in mind that while this site sells their own cable, they do not hesitate to tell you which of their cables were manufactured where and where it is terminated, and that certain giant cable maker's overachieving legal department hasn't been able to refute the information and make them take it down.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...m.htm?hdmiinfo

Here is that site's very useful and informative guide to HDMI cables. Notice that it does not constantly push their own, more expensive cable.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...n.htm?hdmidept

People would also learn a lot if they stopped listening to advertisments and participated in some discussions on forums like:

http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.audiocircle.com
http://www.audioholics.com
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/
just to name a few. All of them have either cable and interconnect subforums or multiple threads discussing them.

Chris

[/QUOTE]

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by chad.miller99

See you rag on me for not having a lot of post what does that have anything to do with what is talking about all i was saying is that i work in the electronics field and cheap cables arent that great...I mean you can list website after website after website but frankly ANYONE can create a website i mean you can put www.cheaphdmicables.com and of course its going to say they work fine and that PC world article is written by 1 guy whoopee, but if u knew anything about a good image get in contact with someone who works for the ISF (Image science foundation) and i guarantee they will tell you that those cables are not supported nor backed by the ISF to give you proper color reproduction.





QUOTE=blindcat87;587866]He is laughing because you came in here with a handful of posts under your belt, talking down to the entire population of the forum presenting points and pseudofacts that have long since been debunked, not only once, but at least half a dozen times recently on this forum.

I wish that we could get a cables sticky, of course since new folks can't seem to ever use the search function, I guess it is too much to expect them to read stickies as well.

BTW, just one more point for the about millionth time. Monster does not manufacture their own HDMI cable. Their cable is made in China by one of only a limited number of manufacturers. All HDMI cable in the entire US is made by this same limited number of manufacturers except for that sold by one company. That company is not Monster and it is not Monoprice. Even that company has their American made cable terminated in China. This is fact, you can research it for yourself.

And, once again, in case any other independent thinkers care to consider what is fact and what is hype, follow the links on this page and consider what the various discussions here tell you.

http://www.monstergreed.com/Index%20...about%20MC.htm

Here is a discussion on the origins of HDMI cable in the US. Keep in mind that while this site sells their own cable, they do not hesitate to tell you which of their cables were manufactured where and where it is terminated, and that certain giant cable maker's overachieving legal department hasn't been able to refute the information and make them take it down.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...m.htm?hdmiinfo

Here is that site's very useful and informative guide to HDMI cables. Notice that it does not constantly push their own, more expensive cable.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...n.htm?hdmidept

People would also learn a lot if they stopped listening to advertisments and participated in some discussions on forums like:

http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.audiocircle.com
http://www.audioholics.com
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/forum/
just to name a few. All of them have either cable and interconnect subforums or multiple threads discussing them.

Chris

Did you even read any of those links Chris posted? You are arguing not wanting to buy a lesser cable, but what says the cost makes these cables not as good? And while the PCWorld article might have been written by "one guy", they are well established and I would trust them over some asshat. Not mentioning names. Until you compare the two, and I have, then I don't think you can say the cables aren't as good.

[Lord_Phan]

Originally Posted by Ruin

I bought mine for 15 bucks and it works perfectly, a couple of my friends said make sure that you get gold tipped though its a better conductor

That's really only true of Analog. The thing is, is that people are so used to Analog connections where the better quality cables gave a better quality signal. That is not true of Digital, it will either work, or it won't.

When looking for a better HDMI cable or such, it's will it last that is the question.

[blindcat87]

What is truly amusing is that he drops the ISF on us like none of us had ever heard of them when anyone who bothers to read those forums he is so disdainful of knows that a lot of ISF techs post on those forums and that a lot of us have regular contact and discussions with them.

But apparently they are like the A/V worlds version of the fey folk and can only be seen by people who work in the electronics field.

I've been in this hobby for a long time now, and from my time in a/V newsgroups on Usenet through all of the forums I have lurked and posted on, this comes up over and over and there are always folks that can never figure out why the companies that are the equivalent of MS in the A/V world are considered "didn't know any better" brands by the enthusiast community as a whole. Except for those in the community who have vested interests of course.

Chris

[QUOTE=JasonR;590901]Did you ev

Originally Posted by JasonR

Did you even read any of those links Chris posted? You are arguing not wanting to buy a lesser cable, but what says the cost makes these cables not as good? And while the PCWorld article might have been written by "one guy", they are well established and I would trust them over some asshat. Not mentioning names. And until you compare the two, and I have, then I don't think you can say the cables aren't as good.

[Lord_Phan]

That ISF company gets referred to alot by people arguing for high contrast and now Digital Cables. But they're a company who makes money based on telling people these things.

[kotton247]

absofreakinlutely it will make a difference. LMAO are you serious?

[kotton247]

Also monoprice is king for HDMI cables.

[Lord_Phan]

10111101 10001111 0111110


Did everyone with the cheap cables get that or did it you miss a number?

[Firefox]

Originally Posted by chad.miller99

Do any of you work in an audio video environment? Well as many think the monoprice cables are fine and even have had one of your own buy a cable that fell apart and how many of you make the argument that its a digital cable cheap cables are sub par, i bet all you monoprice cable buyers dont know that every 7ft of a digital cable their is a signal loss? Did ya? well anyways buy a cheap mono price cable and then get a high end monster or any monster at that and take sciors and cut both cables in the middle and peel back the jacketing and see how many more conductors (cat 5/6 cabling) strands their are in there and then tell me that the cable still produces the same type of quality as a high end cable. Sure if you think it looks fine then thats good its ur tv and not mine and im sure you people who buy the mono price cables own Insignia, Westinghouse, Poloroid, and Vizio tv's and even that high end cable wouldnt help your GREAT HDTV set, and if you think about that statement about the digital aspect if a tv is DIGITAL as well you think they would all be the same right because its DIGITAL.

CASE RESTED.....ENJOY YOUR MONO PRICE CABLES


AND NO WAY DONT THINK I DONT BELIEVE THE CABLES ARE MARKED UP I WORK IN ELECTRONICS RETAIL AND I KNOW THE MARK UP ON THE CHEAP SHIT AS WELL AS THE HIGH END IS MARKED UP HIGH BUT ITS STILL A BETTER QUALITY CABLE.

Well mine are 6ft so I don't get signal lost

[blindcat87]

Actually, that is not even true of analog. The reason for gold plating is not conductivity, silver is a better conductor. The reason is that there is nothing that resists oxidation like gold. A lot of people also don't realize that the most important thing to know about gold plating is what metal is used as an intermediate between the gold and the copper beneath. The wrong intermediate can actually reduce conductivity and cause other problems as well. A lot of companies like to use brass, which is not a good choice.

Chris

Originally Posted by Lord_Phan

That's really only true of Analog. The thing is, is that people are so used to Analog connections where the better quality cables gave a better quality signal. That is not true of Digital, it will either work, or it won't.

When looking for a better HDMI cable or such, it's will it last that is the question.

[kotton247]

Originally Posted by Lord_Phan

10111101 10001111 0111110


Did everyone with the cheap cables get that or did it you miss a number?

and you think that is an educated post. Just because I buy mine from monoprice, doesn't mean that I too dumb to understand binary code.

[Lord_Phan]

Originally Posted by kotton247

and you think that is an educated post. Just because I buy mine from monoprice, doesn't mean that I too dumb to understand binary code.

What the hell are you talking about? I was refering to that fact that this is digital and that it's all 1's and 0's not an analog signal so the cheap cables will deliver the same as the expensive ones.

[kotton247]

Originally Posted by Lord_Phan

What the hell are you talking about? I was refering to that fact that this is digital and that it's all 1's and 0's not an analog signal so the cheap cables will deliver the same as the expensive ones.

lmao. What are we both talking about? That is the question.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Lord_Phan

That's really only true of Analog. The thing is, is that people are so used to Analog connections where the better quality cables gave a better quality signal. That is not true of Digital, it will either work, or it won't.

When looking for a better HDMI cable or such, it's will it last that is the question.

See that is not 100% true either of digital signals.
(see my post above)

Digital signals can (and do) degrade when sent over wire. (fiber or copper)
Having a poor digital signal doesn't always mean no picture.
It more often than not creates a poor picture first.

Ever seen a poor digital cable picture?
Why does everyone assume it is always due to poor compression?

[Lord_Phan]

Explain to us then how the computer(and all players are computers) reads the information to display this subpar picture with missing bits? Since you're saying that it is missing bits along the way. You either get the information or you don't.

[Iceman713713]

Yeah I agree with a lot of people on this one. I think the HDMI cable makes a difference, but the buying the more expensive ones doesn't really make a huge difference than buying a cheaper one.

[U4K61]

Originally Posted by dontbenosey2003

Hi

I am going to buy a playstation 3 to use as a bluray player because i have been waiting for AGES on the panasonic BD30 to come out in the UK but it hasnt and i am gettin fed up waiting and the PS3 seems to be very popular and has great PQ etc.

So so you all think that the HDMI cable i use with it will make a difference?

I have seen ones that cost loads and some that only cost £20 so i was wondering will it make a difference? Because i have read the official PS3 HDMI cable is very good and its only £20.

When you don't use HDMI, black detail can be reduced as there is an unnecessary D/A then A/D conversion for a digital TV. Any conversion degrades the signal. Always use HDMI/DVI if available. Component analogue video is best used for analogue sets such as a CRT. The 20 pounds is money well spent.

HDMI FAQ

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Lord_Phan

Explain to us then how the computer(and all players are computers) reads the information to display this subpar picture with missing bits? Since you're saying that it is missing bits along the way. You either get the information or you don't.

You are not comparing the same thing.
Data read off a disk is ones and zeros represented by pits.
Digital signals (representing the one and zero's information) is converted to an analog wave to be sent over wire.
The same type of interference that affects analog signals can also affect this digital signal.
Infact since in order to pass the size of a 1080p/60 video signal the frequency needs to be much higher than a regular analog signal.
The higher the frequency, the more prone it is to noise.

When a pure analog signal takes in noise, we all are aware of the results.
(poor audio and or video etc)
When a digital signal is extracted at the RX end of the circuit, if any data is lost on the way there (due ot the perils of traveling over wire at such high frequencies) the error correction circuits (ECC) can under most circumstances recreate the original signal.

Now if the errors are too high for the ECC to handle, guess what happens?
If you guess no signal, you would be right if the errors were completely catastrophic. But 99% of the time, they are not and the circuits "guess" what the data should be when they could not reconstruct the original.
These "guesses" is the digital artifacts we see on a crappy digital cable feed.

You did know that your cable box is a digital to analog converter right?