New Disney titles for 2012 (Rescuers Aristocats Pocahontas etc.) !

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Lnds500

I must say that after I've seen the YouTube clips, I can understand how impressive they should have been back in the day. Very nice camera movements, animation etc.
But when I saw the movie it was basically a rehash of the original and, I don't know why exactly, but it really bored me, unlike the original. I will definitely give it another shot when I get the blu-ray though.

Watch The Great Mouse Detective, An American Tail, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Oliver and Co., The Land Before Time, and The Little Mermaid, all in a row.

Then watch Rescuers Down Under.

Let me know what you think about The Rescuers Down Under after seeing it in proper context.

OOO! You know what would be great? If RDU included the original program!

For those who don't know, RDU came on a double bill with The Prince and the Pauper, and even contained a fully animated intermission bridging the two films. A countdown clock played through the intermission with popular disney tunes playing in the background. Every once in a while, the tutor character from Prince and the Pauper popped up to remind everyone how much time was left before RDU started.

That would be awesome...but I fear it aint gonna happen. Would be awesome though!

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan

What if I haven't seen it yet

You'll have to wait to see it and for me to die.

[Ernest Rister]

Hey...was Prince and the Pauper a CAPS short?

[anthonyb]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Watch The Great Mouse Detective, An American Tail, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Oliver and Co., The Land Before Time, and The Little Mermaid, all in a row.

Then watch Rescuers Down Under.

Let me know what you think about The Rescuers Down Under after seeing it in proper context.

OOO! You know what would be great? If RDU included the original program!

For those who don't know, RDU came on a double bill with The Prince and the Pauper, and even contained a fully animated intermission bridging the two films. A countdown clock played through the intermission with popular disney tunes playing in the background. Every once in a while, the tutor character from Prince and the Pauper popped up to remind everyone how much time was left before RDU started.

That would be awesome...but I fear it aint gonna happen. Would be awesome though!

Rare Intermission Clip The Prince and the Pauper Disney Super 8mm Sound - YouTube

[anthonyb]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Hey...was Prince and the Pauper a CAPS short?

Nope, the last Disney production to use the Xerox process.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by anthonyb

Rare Intermission Clip The Prince and the Pauper Disney Super 8mm Sound - YouTube

Wow. Well played, Anthony B. I'm in your debt. I haven't seen that in 22 years. I fact, I wager relatively few human beings have seen that, period.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by anthonyb

Nope, the last Disney production to use the Xerox process.

Thanks, Anthony. Didn't know.

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Hey...was Prince and the Pauper a CAPS short?

IMDb has people credited on it as "xerographic processor[s]" so there you go

Originally Posted by anthonyb

Nope, the last Disney production to use the Xerox process.

The Little Mermaid was the last one. EDIT: chronological mistake, don't mind me

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Watch The Great Mouse Detective, An American Tail, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Oliver and Co., The Land Before Time, and The Little Mermaid, all in a row.

Then watch Rescuers Down Under.

Let me know what you think about The Rescuers Down Under after seeing it in proper context.

I did. In theaters. In a row.
And I remember, like most of the audience, either thinking this one came out "late" (ie., should have come out after Oliver & Co. and then Mermaid could "change the game")--Except for the half that were still heaping undeserved praise on Land Before Time, because they still thought Little Mermaid was a fluke, didn't have Beauty&Beast to fawn over yet, and were still hoping the NIMH/Tail director would show the way. (This was 1990.)

The general feeling was that RDU was either
A) a movie made by someone who hadn't been paying attention to the other animateds, or
B) a movie Disney didn't necessarily want to make, but didn't seem to have any clear idea what movie to make. (Which is closer to the truth.)

I'm with Lnds on this one: We're glad you liked it. Nobody else did. (Or if they did, all they did was talk about the darn boid.)
I've spent ten years as a Treasure Planet defender, and I know--I'm sure if some equally dedicated cult "Atlantis" fan showed up saying "Aw, c'mon, how can you NOT like that cool CGI robot lobster?", you'd be happy to put him wise. Well, right now, you are that fan.

[yeslek]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Wow. Well played, Anthony B. I'm in your debt. I haven't seen that in 22 years. I fact, I wager relatively few human beings have seen that, period.

I'd completely forgot about it until just seeing it again now
man I was like 6 when TRDU that came out, maybe younger

[yumny]

To add my thoughts to this debate, I think the "haters" of RDU should get the same outlook on it as the haters of "Pocahontas"; if you don't like the story, appreciate how incredible it looks.

Personally, I'd prefer RDU's flashy, grande adventure with epic flying scenes a thousand times over to the original Rescuers, which is sketchy, slower paced and not bad in it's own right, but not better than it's sequel.
There was a reviewer on RT who has very adequately summarized my thoughts; "Rescuers Down Under is a rare sequel that improves on the original." Exactly like that.

I'm glad that these are coming on a 2-Movie Collection for the US so people have less to complain. They'll obviously come as seperate releases here in Europe and this is the first time since Fantasia I regret they don't bundle them. Two great movies in one package is awesome. But whatever, maybe we'll have higher bitrates then. Hope the transfer blows the DVD out of the water (so far it looks like it will) because that DVD transfer was awful.

[Pixelfox]

Originally Posted by yumny

Hope the transfer blows the DVD out of the water (so far it looks like it will) because that DVD transfer was awful.

It will without question, thank god. RDU is one of the few Disney films I didn't watch growing up, and I actually watched it for the first time last year... on that awful DVD. I loved the film to bits nonetheless, but kept thinking how shocking the transfer was.

[cornbetts]

Does anyone know if Disney will be offering coupons for Home on the Range or Treasure Planet?

[zoodermin]

Originally Posted by yumny

To add my thoughts to this debate, I think the "haters" of RDU should get the same outlook on it as the haters of "Pocahontas"; if you don't like the story, appreciate how incredible it looks.

Personally, I'd prefer RDU's flashy, grande adventure with epic flying scenes a thousand times over to the original Rescuers, which is sketchy, slower paced and not bad in it's own right, but not better than it's sequel.
There was a reviewer on RT who has very adequately summarized my thoughts; "Rescuers Down Under is a rare sequel that improves on the original." Exactly like that.

I'm glad that these are coming on a 2-Movie Collection for the US so people have less to complain. They'll obviously come as seperate releases here in Europe and this is the first time since Fantasia I regret they don't bundle them. Two great movies in one package is awesome. But whatever, maybe we'll have higher bitrates then. Hope the transfer blows the DVD out of the water (so far it looks like it will) because that DVD transfer was awful.

To each their own, but I think The Rescuers is better then the sequel. My main grudge with TRDU is that ends very abruptly and lacks some character development: For example, I think the film should've end with Bernard and Miss Bianca's wedding so we can have some closure with their relationship and a proper "happy ending" (what can I say I love those in Disney films). Also Cody and his mom have clearly relationship issues but you don't feel for her when he's gone missing. Don't get me wrong, Cody is a great and resourceful boy but I was more touched with Penny's storyline in the first film. Those are my main issues with the sequel but that does not mean I don't enjoy it. It's fun, fast-paced, has wonderful animation and a fantastic score! It's not by any means a bad film but I don't think is better than the first.

Nitpicks aside, I think both films compliment each other very well and make for a perfect Double-Feature night (which is exactly what I plan to do when they arrive in August ).

[chrisron]

I have given RDU several chances, but always come to the conclusion that it's one of very few Disney classics I just don't like. I didn't even like it when I was a kid. But I'll give it another chance when it's out on Blu-Ray.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

To each their own, but I think The Rescuers is better then the sequel. My main grudge with TRDU is that ends very abruptly and lacks some character development: For example, I think the film should've end with Bernard and Miss Bianca's wedding so we can have some closure with their relationship and a proper "happy ending" (what can I say I love those in Disney films). Also Cody and his mom have clearly relationship issues but you don't feel for her when he's gone missing. Don't get me wrong, Cody is a great and resourceful boy but I was more touched with Penny's storyline in the first film. Those are my main issues with the sequel but that does not mean I don't enjoy it. It's fun, fast-paced, has wonderful animation and a fantastic score! It's not by any means a bad film but I don't think is better than the first.

Nitpicks aside, I think both films compliment each other very well and make for a perfect Double-Feature night (which is exactly what I plan to do when they arrive in August ).

The character animation of Bernard and Bianca in The Rescuers is miles ahead of the animation of the same characters in Down Under. Medusa is also a stunningly vile and cruel creation, and Penny simply breaks your heart, in two key scenes. It's the difference between Walt's seasoned and experienced (and incredibly talented) crew trying to go out with a bang and young animators stretching themselves with new technology (and having a ball, it looks like).

Milt Kahl went a bit over the top with Medusa, in my opinion -- he knew it was going to be his last character and he pushed it hard making a personal statement. There was talk in pre-production of having Crullea deVille return as the villain, but they dropped the idea -- but you can sense Kahl trying to "out-Cruella" Marc Davis. Kahl was a bit of a hot-headed prima donna. He knew he was the best animator on the lot in terms of technique ("I had no limits" he famously said), but Walt was always around to soothe his ego and calm him down. Kahl would blow his top, and march into Walt's office and rant and rave, and Walt would listen and tell him he was right and everything would sort out, and Kahl then returned to his desk and fume in private, his anger sated.

Without Walt, there was no one around that could soothe and calm the mercurial Mr. Kahl. During production of Robin Hood, for instance, he stormed down the hallway screaming "You're all garbagemen!" He finally snapped during The Rescuers, abruptly quitting towards the end of production. His work on the film, though, is unmistakable (as is Don Bluth's sequence, a go-absolutely-nowhere sequence where Bernard and Bianca take a short cut through a zoo -- so little happens during this scene, Disney didn't even bother including it in books and records of the film. But you know you're watching Bluth when Bernard starts sticking out his tongue. Bluth followed Kahl's lead and stormed out of the studio a few years later, taking some of the talent with him. Monkey see, monkey do.).

So I find the character animation in general more interesting and therefore the actual *acting* in Rescuers to be superior to Rescuers Down Under, but RDU buries The Rescuers in terms of production values, and if MacLeach isn't the equal of Kahl's Medusa, RDU has one unique creation that makes a statement all it's own -- Marahute. Glen Keane sealed his legend with this film, after the astonishing bear fight from Fox and the Hound. His Great Golden Eagle is a form of entertainment unto itself. Keane's work is mind-blowing, almost too good, as you look forward to seeing it again for most of the movie, and they hold Marahute back until the end.

I could talk about these two movies all day long -- MacLeach received criticism for being too complicated, but I loved his look, and thought the animation ambitious, and I'll take ambitious animation from Disney any day over - say - rushed animation on a budget (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast) or worse, recycled animation (Robin Hood). Joanna is a fun riff on the alligator sidekicks Nero and Brutus in the original film, and boy, is she fun to watch (her egg-stealing scenes are real highlights of the film). John Candy demonstrates why he should have worked more in animation. His performance is a real treat.

People talk about The Black Cauldron being a kind of bastard step-child of Disney, when the truth is that the film has done quite well on home video, and October release dates near Halloween serve the film nicely. Rescuers Down Under, by contrast, so underperformed at the box office, it reminds me of Maltin's comments about Fantasia - it's not that people went to see it and didn't like it, they just didn't go see it. Something about it put them off. Opening night, in Austin, in the only THX-certified theater playing RDU...I was the only soul in the cinema. The marketing was pathetic (even the trailer for it in front of Fantasia turned me off) and Disney has done nothing to promote the film ever since. RDU is the real bastard step-child of Disney animation, because it doesn't fit this whole "renaissance" narrative (actually it does, it just didn't make any money).

I suspect the brief "Crocodile Dundee" fascination with Australia in American culture from 1986 had worn off by 1990, and the concept of The Rescuers in Australia seemed like the cheap marketing ploy that it was (for some reason, call me crazy, but methinks Katzenberg and Eisner had something to do with that idea). Regardless, the resulting film is a technical wonder, overflowing with ambition, joy, and - yes, damn it - heart. It does not deserve its ignominy.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by yumny

I think the "haters" of RDU should get the same outlook on it as the haters of "Pocahontas".

Well, the two films were directed by the same people, so, your comparison is understandable.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

But you know you're watching Bluth when Bernard starts sticking out his tongue.

Oh my god

[anthonyb]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I could talk about these two movies all day long -- MacLeach received criticism for being too complicated, but I loved his look, and thought the animation ambitious, and I'll take ambitious animation from Disney any day over - say - rushed animation on a budget (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast) or worse, recycled animation (Robin Hood).

I always did like the animation of McLeach myself; the use of shadows, and the fact they're able to make him look so huge...although maybe that's because all the other characters are so small...

[zoodermin]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The character animation of Bernard and Bianca in The Rescuers is miles ahead of the animation of the same characters in Down Under. Medusa is also a stunningly vile and cruel creation, and Penny simply breaks your heart, in two key scenes. It's the difference between Walt's seasoned and experienced (and incredibly talented) crew trying to go out with a bang and young animators stretching themselves with new technology (and having a ball, it looks like).

Milt Kahl went a bit over the top with Medusa, in my opinion -- he knew it was going to be his last character and he pushed it hard making a personal statement. There was talk in pre-production of having Crullea deVille return as the villain, but they dropped the idea -- but you can sense Kahl trying to "out-Cruella" Marc Davis. Kahl was a bit of a hot-headed prima donna. He knew he was the best animator on the lot in terms of technique ("I had no limits" he famously said), but Walt was always around to soothe his ego and calm him down. Kahl would blow his top, and march into Walt's office and rant and rave, and Walt would listen and tell him he was right and everything would sort out, and Kahl then returned to his desk and fume in private, his anger sated.

Without Walt, there was no one around that could soothe and calm the mercurial Mr. Kahl. During production of Robin Hood, for instance, he stormed down the hallway screaming "You're all garbagemen!" He finally snapped during The Rescuers, abruptly quitting towards the end of production. His work on the film, though, is unmistakable (as is Don Bluth's sequence, a go-absolutely-nowhere sequence where Bernard and Bianca take a short cut through a zoo -- so little happens during this scene, Disney didn't even bother including it in books and records of the film. But you know you're watching Bluth when Bernard starts sticking out his tongue. Bluth followed Kahl's lead and stormed out of the studio a few years later, taking some of the talent with him. Monkey see, monkey do.).

So I find the character animation in general more interesting and therefore the actual *acting* in Rescuers to be superior to Rescuers Down Under, but RDU buries The Rescuers in terms of production values, and if MacLeach isn't the equal of Kahl's Medusa, RDU has one unique creation that makes a statement all it's own -- Marahute. Glen Keane sealed his legend with this film, after the astonishing bear fight from Fox and the Hound. His Great Golden Eagle is a form of entertainment unto itself. Keane's work is mind-blowing, almost too good, as you look forward to seeing it again for most of the movie, and they hold Marahute back until the end.

I could talk about these two movies all day long -- MacLeach received criticism for being too complicated, but I loved his look, and thought the animation ambitious, and I'll take ambitious animation from Disney any day over - say - rushed animation on a budget (Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast) or worse, recycled animation (Robin Hood). Joanna is a fun riff on the alligator sidekicks Nero and Brutus in the original film, and boy, is she fun to watch (her egg-stealing scenes are real highlights of the film). John Candy demonstrates why he should have worked more in animation. His performance is a real treat.

People talk about The Black Cauldron being a kind of bastard step-child of Disney, when the truth is that the film has done quite well on home video, and October release dates near Halloween serve the film nicely. Rescuers Down Under, by contrast, so underperformed at the box office, it reminds me of Maltin's comments about Fantasia - it's not that people went to see it and didn't like it, they just didn't go see it. Something about it put them off. Opening night, in Austin, in the only THX-certified theater playing RDU...I was the only soul in the cinema. The marketing was pathetic (even the trailer for it in front of Fantasia turned me off) and Disney has done nothing to promote the film ever since. RDU is the real bastard step-child of Disney animation, because it doesn't fit this whole "renaissance" narrative (actually it does, it just didn't make any money).

I suspect the brief "Crocodile Dundee" fascination with Australia in American culture from 1986 had worn off by 1990, and the concept of The Rescuers in Australia seemed like the cheap marketing ploy that it was (for some reason, call me crazy, but methinks Katzenberg and Eisner had something to do with that idea). Regardless, the resulting film is a technical wonder, overflowing with ambition, joy, and - yes, damn it - heart. It does not deserve its ignominy.

Very well said! You sir know how to make this dicussion both illuminating and engaging and I completely agree that TRDU does not deserve the unfair treatment that has been subject since 1990 and even with its weaknesses is a very good film and certainly way better than The Black Cauldron (a complete recipe for insomnia).