Bookshelf vs Bipole surrounds

[Yeha-Noha]

My HT speaker setup:

2 Energy C-200s: LF and RF
1 Energy C-C100: Center
2 Energy C-100s: LS and RS (surrounds, bookshelf type)
1 Dayton 12" Titanic MKIII subwoofer

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the C-100 surrounds with a pair of Energy C-R100 bipoles as left/right surround speakers.

Anyone having experience with bipole speakers and how they sound vs regular bookself (monopole?) speakers, please chime in.

Specifically what are some advantages and disadvantages of using bookself speakers as surrounds vs. bipoles. Are there any compelling reasons to go one way or the other making it worth the expense especially in regards to my HT speaker setup?

TIA -rw

[JohnGalt]

The benefit is a less localized soundfield. I'd upgrade if: a) you often find yourself noticing sound coming from the precise location of your surrounds; and b) you find this very annoying.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

My HT speaker setup:

2 Energy C-200s: LF and RF
1 Energy C-C100: Center
2 Energy C-100s: LS and RS (surrounds, bookshelf type)
1 Dayton 12" Titanic MKIII subwoofer

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the C-100 surrounds with a pair of Energy C-R100 bipoles as left/right surround speakers.

Anyone having experience with bipole speakers and how they sound vs regular bookself (monopole?) speakers, please chime in.

Specifically what are some advantages and disadvantages of using bookself speakers as surrounds vs. bipoles. Are there any compelling reasons to go one way or the other making it worth the expense especially in regards to my HT speaker setup?

TIA -rw

You might be interested in this posting ...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=36

as well as follow the various postings surrounding it..

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the C-100 surrounds with a pair of Energy C-R100 bipoles as left/right surround speakers.

I just added a pair of Energy RC-R to my system, moving my bookshelf speakers to the rear to upgrade to a 7.1 system.

What I like is that bipole (or it can also be set as dipole in the case of the RC-R) setup serves as a nice compromise between a 5.1 (rear surround and no sides) and 7.1 (rear and side surrounds) configuration.

I have my sides at about 100 degrees (just behind my seating) at 5 ft above the floor.

Some people use FOUR of those, having them be both the side and rear surrounds.

Sir Terrence is our resident audio expert. Be sure to read his post and ask him too.

Gary

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit

You might be interested in this posting ...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...4&postcount=36

as well as follow the various postings surrounding it..

Wow! Great post. Thanks for the link!

I will dig into it later. I got to work tonight! Clear skies.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I just added a pair of Energy RC-R to my system, moving my bookshelf speakers to the rear to upgrade to a 7.1 system.

What I like is that bipole (or it can also be set as dipole in the case of the RC-R) setup serves as a nice compromise between a 5.1 (rear surround and no sides) and 7.1 (rear and side surrounds) configuration.

I have my sides at about 100 degrees (just behind my seating) at 5 ft above the floor.

Some people use FOUR of those, having them be both the side and rear surrounds.

Sir Terrence is our resident audio expert. Be sure to read his post and ask him too.

Gary

Another good recommedation! Thanks.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

The benefit is a less localized soundfield. I'd upgrade if: a) you often find yourself noticing sound coming from the precise location of your surrounds; and b) you find this very annoying.

Is it possible then to get a less localized soundfield by pointing the C-100s in a different direction? They are currently facing each other across the room at 90 deg either side of the listening area and about 6 ft away on either side.

If I have the C-100s positioned next to the side walls and facing the front (ie, each one approximately facing the LF and RF speakers, then the sound won't be directly coming at the listener. Instead, it would be boucing off the side walls. Would that work or make it worse?

Another direction, and it would look rather bizarre, is to have them pointing upward facing the ceiling (cathedral ceiling that is varying from 9 ft to 12 ft high).

Anyway, after reading Sir Terrence's post, I think I might have too much direct sound coming at the listeners from the surrounds. However, I haven't found it to be annoying. In fact I often don't seem to hear much at all coming from the surrounds except during intensive action scenes. For example, in Hildago, when the locomotive goes by, it sounds like it is going right through the listening area.

I am still unsure whether to ditch the C-100s for the Energy bipole surrounds.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

My HT speaker setup:

2 Energy C-200s: LF and RF
1 Energy C-C100: Center
2 Energy C-100s: LS and RS (surrounds, bookshelf type)
1 Dayton 12" Titanic MKIII subwoofer

I have been toying with the idea of replacing the C-100 surrounds with a pair of Energy C-R100 bipoles as left/right surround speakers.

Anyone having experience with bipole speakers and how they sound vs regular bookself (monopole?) speakers, please chime in.

Specifically what are some advantages and disadvantages of using bookself speakers as surrounds vs. bipoles. Are there any compelling reasons to go one way or the other making it worth the expense especially in regards to my HT speaker setup?

TIA -rw

I use 4 bipole speakers in my surround configuration (Def Tech BP1's and BP2's). My Suuround enviorment is just that - it's very ambient, sounds very "real". I can actually change them to Dipoles by going in and wiring one set of drivers on each speaker out of phase with the other set. I prefer Bi/dipoles in the rear - better for everyone seated on the couch, surrounds not aimed at one area. That's just my opinion. I have three classic Infinty RS 6b Kappas up front, 2 custom 15 inch vent subs with a Paradigm x30 crossover up front, Def Tecs on the side and rear and 2 DCM subs in the rear. My soundstage is very involving and realistic-it has actually fooled people to think things are happening elswere in my house - but its really the movie - all the speakers just disappear.

[Beta Man]

I just purchased some new speakers, New Mains (moving my current mains to the surrounds) and purchased a new set of surrounds also to get 7.1 (but I'm more into audio than video, but what the hell right???)
I can't wait for the shop to get it all in.

The surrounds I went with are 2-Way Closed-Box Selectable Dipole/Monopole, so I'll give my $0.02 on these when I get them.....

I debated for a LONG time on the size of the drivers etc.... and chose more on budget than anything else. I have good rapport with the owner, so I'll exchange them if I change my mind in the first 30 days or so. They're Wall-Mounted, so I couldn't really in-home audition them properly.

[Yeha-Noha]

Thanks guys for the suggestions! Now, all I have to do is convince my wife that our HT will sound better...

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Thanks guys for the suggestions! Now, all I have to do is convince my wife that our HT will sound better...

They way I managed it, was explaining to her that speakers hold their value fairly well, so spending the money now, will prevent you from spending more later (I upgraded nonetheless though!!!!)

My wife enjoys listening to music a LOT on our system..... I picked her up some spanish guitar, and other stuff she enjoys as an act of good faith..... gotta get those brownie points!

[surfdude12]

yeah, i recently put in a L/R Def Tech UIW BP/A bipolar surrounds:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...round.html#uiw

never had bookshelf, but i have a long couch on the backwidth of my listening area, i popped these 2 babies in the ceiling and they shoot the sound down the length of the couch in both directions!!! its paradise!!

[Clark Kent]

For 5.1 and 7.1 movie soundtracks I like bipole surround speakers better. It makes the soundfield much more diffuse and usually enhances the surround effect. But for music recorded in 5.1 like dvd-audios or Sacds I find regular direct speakers the better option for the surrounds. I think it comes down to the differences in how music vs. movies are mixed.

[Big Daddy]

In general, Bipole and Dipole speakers are more appropriate for movies. Direct radiating speakers are more appropriate for multichannel music such as SACD or DVD-A.

Read these articles.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hom...ers-page4.html

http://www.hometheaternetwork.com/HT...DipoleSpeakers

http://stereos.about.com/od/advanced...ssspeakers.htm

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/t...icle.php?id=27

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

They way I managed it, was explaining to her that speakers hold their value fairly well, so spending the money now, will prevent you from spending more later (I upgraded nonetheless though!!!!)

My wife enjoys listening to music a LOT on our system..... I picked her up some spanish guitar, and other stuff she enjoys as an act of good faith..... gotta get those brownie points!

Yep, she already knows that. We still own a pair of Tannoy 6o9s bought back in 1991 that we still have setup with other higher end audio equipment in her study/art studio.

She'd rather listen to her opera CDs and DVDs with the Tannoys instead of on our BD player, 1080p 47" LCD, and 5 matched Energy speakers. I don't blame her. The Tannoys which are bi-amped reproduce vocals such that they sound much more natural than the Energys do. A 6o9 would probably have made an excellent center speaker with two more for L/F fronts.

Before I got the Engery speakers, I did in fact try but failed to find 3 more Tannoy 6o9s. The Tannoys would have also made ideal surrounds because of their high dispersion capability which seems to be the big concern that I have learned in this thread so far.

I'll persuade her to let me get the Energy bipoles after taking her to her favorite Italian restaurant though.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

In general, Bipole and Dipole speakers are more appropriate for movies. Direct radiating speakers are more appropriate for multichannel music such as SACD or DVD-A.

Read these articles.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hom...ers-page4.html

http://www.hometheaternetwork.com/HT...DipoleSpeakers

http://stereos.about.com/od/advanced...ssspeakers.htm

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/t...icle.php?id=27

Thanks Big Daddy! I will.

[richard lichtenfelt]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Sir Terrence is our resident audio expert. Be sure to read his post and ask him too.

Couldn't agree more. Sir Terrence gives extremely sound advice.

[echoesian]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

yeah, i recently put in a L/R Def Tech UIW BP/A bipolar surrounds:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...round.html#uiw

never had bookshelf, but i have a long couch on the backwidth of my listening area, i popped these 2 babies in the ceiling and they shoot the sound down the length of the couch in both directions!!! its paradise!!

Since you have a good performance mounting bipoles on the ceiling, how about the performance of mounting in-ceiling speakers on the ceiling? Would it be the same as well ?

[STARSCREAM]

I've always wondered why direct firing (monopoles) speakers are recommended over bipoles/dipoles for the rear surrounds in a 7.1 setup?

[centauro74]

Now that you are talking about this, what is better to set the surround speaker when you have both options dipole or bipole. I have mines in dipole but I was wondering if is better on bipole mode.