Disney Disney Disney

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

Hopefully not. I know that everyone has their opinion but I think that at least the first four Renaissance films (Mermaid, Beauty, Aladdin, Lion King) has earned their high reputation and are not overrated at all.

Actually I think TLK is the most overrated Disney film ever. It's a masterpiece, it's amazing but it has flaws. It's not the "perfect" film everyone claims it to be. 8/10 times another person my age will proclaim TLK is his/her "favourite animated film" and "everything is compared to that".

[yumny]

Originally Posted by Lnds500

Actually I think TLK is the most overrated Disney film ever. It's a masterpiece, it's amazing but it has flaws. It's not the "perfect" film everyone claims it to be. 8/10 times another person my age will proclaim TLK is his/her "favourite animated film" and "everything is compared to that".

It's very good and grand, but it's not flawless. As a kid it was actually one of my least favorites.. although I did love it a lot. To be fair the reason it earned that title for me was that I was scared as piss by the stampede scene and graveyard scene.
Anyway to say Lion King is overrated is taking it a bit too far for me. If you want an overrated film, look to Tangled. People are reacting to it like it's the second coming of BatB. It's really not that good. It's pretty good, but not as incredible as the early 90s movies.

[zoodermin]

Originally Posted by yumny

It's very good and grand, but it's not flawless. As a kid it was actually one of my least favorites.. although I did love it a lot. To be fair the reason it earned that title for me was that I was scared as piss by the stampede scene and graveyard scene.
Anyway to say Lion King is overrated is taking it a bit too far for me. If you want an overrated film, look to Tangled. People are reacting to it like it's the second coming of BatB. It's really not that good. It's pretty good, but not as incredible as the early 90s movies.

Tangled is a great film but I agree is not as good as the early 90’s movies (for the record all four films: Mermaid, Beauty, Aladdin and Lion King are my favorite Disney films so it will be tough for me to accept any other movie to match them). I don’t know but I haven’t heard too many people reacting to Tangled as strongly as you suggest. Sure, most of them like it but they never have said it is the new Beauty and the Beast or anything like it.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

Tangled is a great film but I agree is not as good as the early 90’s movies (for the record all four films: Mermaid, Beauty, Aladdin and Lion King are my favorite Disney films so it will be tough for me to accept any other movie to match them). I don’t know but I haven’t heard too many people reacting to Tangled as strongly as you suggest. Sure, most of them like it but they never have said it is the new Beauty and the Beast or anything like it.

Umph, you surely have never been to the Disney fandom on tumblr..
My favorite Disney movies are the Musker/Clements combos, specifically Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules and Princess and the Frog. I also love Great Mouse Detective but it's a minor classic to me Pocahontas and Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh are also in my top ten, along with Tarzan, Lilo & Stitch and Emmperor's New Groove

[disneyfreak]

Guys we can really point out flaws with every movie, the more you watch the film the more you can point out its flaws. I don't think that the Lion King is super overated, maybe the slightest bit, I do however think that The Little Mermaid is though. I'm not that big of a fan, don't get me wrong its good, but I can find plenty of other Disney films that exceed it.

[Pixelfox]

Originally Posted by yumny

Umph, you surely have never been to the Disney fandom on tumblr..

Ha, SO TRUE. Tumblr people do love them some Tangled. I don't really mind though, because I love the film too. Which is saying something, because at first I refused to even SEE it.

[taei]

Originally Posted by yumny

It's very good and grand, but it's not flawless. As a kid it was actually one of my least favorites.. although I did love it a lot. To be fair the reason it earned that title for me was that I was scared as piss by the stampede scene and graveyard scene.
Anyway to say Lion King is overrated is taking it a bit too far for me. If you want an overrated film, look to Tangled. People are reacting to it like it's the second coming of BatB. It's really not that good. It's pretty good, but not as incredible as the early 90s movies.

I love you.. When I tell people that I didn't like tangled, they get pissed..

to me, tangled just simply didn't deliver, in almost every aspect.

Rehashed plot (Look at Hunchback of Notre-Dame)
Annoying main character,
over bloated horse, ITS A HORSE! HOW CAN HE CALL A GANG TO SAVE A PRISONER!
sloppy songs
extreme unrealistic events

[Show spoiler]Had they stayed with the way the orignal script dealt with her finding out, I would have enjoyed it much better.

The movie seemed to rely a lot on fantasy, which is just stupid. In beauty and the beast, you had beast and all the characters, but the movie revolved around a realistic setting with realistic events. Same with Lion King, Aladdin, and Little mermaid.

Those four movies will remain in my top 10 disney. Brave, if categorized alongside disney, will stand close, if not top of, Little Mermaid.

I finally got around to seeing it last week, and it is the most amazing movie I have ever seen. A true masterpiece in every aspect. After leaving the movie, the first thing I said to my friend was, " now I know what people felt when they left Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast 20 years ago."

[yumny]

Originally Posted by taei

I love you.. When I tell people that I didn't like tangled, they get pissed..

to me, tangled just simply didn't deliver, in almost every aspect.

Rehashed plot (Look at Hunchback of Notre-Dame)
Annoying main character,
over bloated horse, ITS A HORSE! HOW CAN HE CALL A GANG TO SAVE A PRISONER!
sloppy songs
extreme unrealistic events

[Show spoiler]Had they stayed with the way the orignal script dealt with her finding out, I would have enjoyed it much better.

The movie seemed to rely a lot on fantasy, which is just stupid. In beauty and the beast, you had beast and all the characters, but the movie revolved around a realistic setting with realistic events. Same with Lion King, Aladdin, and Little mermaid.

Those four movies will remain in my top 10 disney. Brave, if categorized alongside disney, will stand close, if not top of, Little Mermaid.

I finally got around to seeing it last week, and it is the most amazing movie I have ever seen. A true masterpiece in every aspect. After leaving the movie, the first thing I said to my friend was, " now I know what people felt when they left Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast 20 years ago."

I personally liked the horse a lot. Comic relief characters have always been in Disney movies and they don't ruiin it for me
The main character of Rapunzel had an annoying celebrity voice and her design was also too perky for me to really enjoy. I also agree that the songs were incredibly sloppy (it's like Alan Menken was smoking something really bad while making them, it's hard to remember this is the guy who made the scores to movies like Pocahontas and BatB). My biggest nitpick about Tangled is the CGI - I absolutely loathe it. Seeing the original concept art this could have been a beautiful, artistic movie. Sadly right now it looks like any other CGI flick on the market.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by yumny

I personally liked the horse a lot. Comic relief characters have always been in Disney movies and they don't ruiin it for me
The main character of Rapunzel had an annoying celebrity voice and her design was also too perky for me to really enjoy. I also agree that the songs were incredibly sloppy (it's like Alan Menken was smoking something really bad while making them, it's hard to remember this is the guy who made the scores to movies like Pocahontas and BatB). My biggest nitpick about Tangled is the CGI - I absolutely loathe it. Seeing the original concept art this could have been a beautiful, artistic movie. Sadly right now it looks like any other CGI flick on the market.

No it doesn't, it looks more "hand painted" than any CG feature to date.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No it doesn't, it looks more "hand painted" than any CG feature to date.

Some of the scenery certainly does, like the paint details and the tower. But in my opinion the characters especially are quite lifeless despite the amount of emotion and enthusiasm the animators pumped into them.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by yumny

Some of the scenery certainly does, like the paint details and the tower. But in my opinion the characters especially are quite lifeless despite the amount of emotion and enthusiasm the animators pumped into them.

Really? I think Rapunzel is probably the most adoring CGI character I have ever seen. Her curiosity and happiness throughout is just radiant and the work put into her expressions and body language is incredible. There's a lot of that Glen Keane magic in her if you ask me...

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by taei

Those four movies will remain in my top 10 disney. Brave, if categorized alongside disney, will stand close, if not top of, Little Mermaid.

I finally got around to seeing it last week, and it is the most amazing movie I have ever seen. A true masterpiece in every aspect. After leaving the movie, the first thing I said to my friend was, " now I know what people felt when they left Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast 20 years ago."

Oh, Brave... Look, I thought it was good, but at the same time, just a middle-tier in the Pixar library. I mean, the writing in places was just lazy. It's like they had this great starting point with the mother-daughter conflict,

[Show spoiler]but then everything just spiraled out of control once she left the castle and found a witch, who conveniently just was there to make a spell and never to be seen or heard from again once she had served that purpose. Then the conveniently placed "losing yourself to the bear"-scenes with the mother which made the father act extremely unrational compared to how he had been. The boys never showing any signs of this behaviour during their transformed times. The extraneous sub plot with the fourth king being turned into the bear etc.

There's so many problems with the film during its second half, both small and large, and I suspect this is a rushed afterthought to Brenda Chapman's original vision. I guess we'll never know for sure...

[Whirlygig]

Some good discussion about the films going on in here...prepare for WALL OF TEXT...

I was 8 years old when my grandparents took me to see The Little Mermaid in the theater. As far as I can remember, that is the only time they ever took me to a movie (just not their thing). My grandma didn't like it, and told me as much (she didn't like Ursula). I loved it (and Ursula).

The next year, when I saw The Little Mermaid on VHS at the store, I had to have it. I have no idea how I came into enough money to buy it at 9 years old (I want to say it must have been around $30?)... But somehow, I bought it. My first home video purchase. I watched the hell out of that thing. I had the entire film memorized, every word, every song, every sound effect. One of 7 VHS tapes I still own, and the single VHS I will never part with. It also launched my film music collection, when I ordered the soundtrack cassette through these book club flier things they used to put on our desks in elementary school every once in awhile.

I'm a fan of musical theater (love Sondheim, can't stand ALW). I'm sad to say, I no longer have every TLM lyric and song memorized. But I still feel like The Little Mermaid had the best songs of any Disney film since. Tightest lyrics, diverse musical styles, and it just seems more like a true musical throughout, by full design. Even the extremely minor French chef character gets his own hilarious, highly memorable song.

From there...
Beauty and the Beast - I loved it almost as much, and I can see why it has the better reputation since then, but it will never top TLM for me. My 2nd favorite.
Aladdin - At the time, I may have liked this one even more than TLM, but the older I get the less I care about it. In my memory, it relies a bit too much on comedy and Robin Williams, who gets more annoying as a comedian as I age for some reason. Maybe the subsequent cartoon and sequels are causing an exaggerated recollection of Genie's importance in the original?
The Lion King - I was 13 when this came out. Age of innocence was ending, which could easily have something to do with how I received the movie. I really liked it then; yes, we bought it, yes, I memorized the soundtrack, but something about it just puts it a notch below the first three, for me. Hard to say what. Possibly too much comic relief?

Next was Pocahontas. At this point I was at the age where you aren't in the theater to watch the film, you are there to hang out with your friends. But I remember not liking it much. I just watched the Blu, and it is definitely way, way below the first three. The songs, two of which were highly memorable at the time, just don't hold up at all. I will confess that in my studies of musical theater I have come to regard Stephen Schwartz as one of the most mediocre lyricists in history, and when I saw his name in the credits I thought "no wonder I didn't like this one".

After that point...a mid-to-late-teenaged boy going to a Disney movie? Forget about it. I have, to this day, never seen (fully through) any of Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, or Tarzan. I played some of the Hunchback music in high school concert band, and musically I liked that. I'm highly anticipating these on Blu-ray, as it will be my initiation!

I've seen several of the others that came later on home video, saw Fantasia 2000 in the theater (love it, as a music lover). In fact, as a music lover, the less musical Disney films just don't interest me as much.

Never saw Lilo & Stitch or Brother Bear. Was kind of disappointed in Princess & the Frog at the theater, but when I watched it again at home I really liked it. IMO really did come close to the original renaissance magic, in fact I would possibly see myself putting it above The Lion King.

As far as Tangled goes, I saw it at the dollar theater and expected to loathe it. As it turned out, though, it was just charming enough that my girlfriend and I both ended up liking it (for what it is). It's not really fair to compare it to the renaissance movies, or really anything else, it's an entirely different effort (for one, not a musical). A bit heavy on comedy, and that seems to be what turns me off in some of the more recent Disney/Pixar movies on the whole. When pop culture references start seeping in as comedic relief (as they sometimes do), you lose a bit of timelessness. And did Finding Nemo really need to have a fart joke? Really?

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Whirlygig

[Show spoiler]Some good discussion about the films going on in here...prepare for WALL OF TEXT...

I was 8 years old when my grandparents took me to see The Little Mermaid in the theater. As far as I can remember, that is the only time they ever took me to a movie (just not their thing). My grandma didn't like it, and told me as much (she didn't like Ursula). I loved it (and Ursula).

The next year, when I saw The Little Mermaid on VHS at the store, I had to have it. I have no idea how I came into enough money to buy it at 9 years old (I want to say it must have been around $30?)... But somehow, I bought it. My first home video purchase. I watched the hell out of that thing. I had the entire film memorized, every word, every song, every sound effect. One of 7 VHS tapes I still own, and the single VHS I will never part with. It also launched my film music collection, when I ordered the soundtrack cassette through these book club flier things they used to put on our desks in elementary school every once in awhile.

I'm a fan of musical theater (love Sondheim, can't stand ALW). I'm sad to say, I no longer have every TLM lyric and song memorized. But I still feel like The Little Mermaid had the best songs of any Disney film since. Tightest lyrics, diverse musical styles, and it just seems more like a true musical throughout, by full design. Even the extremely minor French chef character gets his own hilarious, highly memorable song.

From there...
Beauty and the Beast - I loved it almost as much, and I can see why it has the better reputation since then, but it will never top TLM for me. My 2nd favorite.
Aladdin - At the time, I may have liked this one even more than TLM, but the older I get the less I care about it. In my memory, it relies a bit too much on comedy and Robin Williams, who gets more annoying as a comedian as I age for some reason. Maybe the subsequent cartoon and sequels are causing an exaggerated recollection of Genie's importance in the original?
The Lion King - I was 13 when this came out. Age of innocence was ending, which could easily have something to do with how I received the movie. I really liked it then; yes, we bought it, yes, I memorized the soundtrack, but something about it just puts it a notch below the first three, for me. Hard to say what. Possibly too much comic relief?

Next was Pocahontas. At this point I was at the age where you aren't in the theater to watch the film, you are there to hang out with your friends. But I remember not liking it much. I just watched the Blu, and it is definitely way, way below the first three. The songs, two of which were highly memorable at the time, just don't hold up at all. I will confess that in my studies of musical theater I have come to regard Stephen Schwartz as one of the most mediocre lyricists in history, and when I saw his name in the credits I thought "no wonder I didn't like this one".

After that point...a mid-to-late-teenaged boy going to a Disney movie? Forget about it. I have, to this day, never seen (fully through) any of Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, or Tarzan. I played some of the Hunchback music in high school concert band, and musically I liked that. I'm highly anticipating these on Blu-ray, as it will be my initiation!

I've seen several of the others that came later on home video, saw Fantasia 2000 in the theater (love it, as a music lover). In fact, as a music lover, the less musical Disney films just don't interest me as much.

Never saw Lilo & Stitch or Brother Bear. Was kind of disappointed in Princess & the Frog at the theater, but when I watched it again at home I really liked it. IMO really did come close to the original renaissance magic, in fact I would possibly see myself putting it above The Lion King.

As far as Tangled goes, I saw it at the dollar theater and expected to loathe it. As it turned out, though, it was just charming enough that my girlfriend and I both ended up liking it (for what it is). It's not really fair to compare it to the renaissance movies, or really anything else, it's an entirely different effort (for one, not a musical). A bit heavy on comedy, and that seems to be what turns me off in some of the more recent Disney/Pixar movies on the whole. When pop culture references start seeping in as comedic relief (as they sometimes do), you lose a bit of timelessness. And did Finding Nemo really need to have a fart joke? Really?

Up to and including the Pocahontas part, I can relate to everything you're saying here and I agree with most of it. TLM is my all-time favourite as well, and the second one I saw theatrically (Oliver & Co. being the first).

After that, there are some hits and misses, but IMO, especially Hunchback and Tarzan are masterpieces and I hope you'll enjoy them once released on blu. Mulan and Hercules are good as well, but, like you say, may rely a bit to much on comic relief. Lilo & Stitch is sweet, and Brother Bear holds up well.

I've kind of given up on anything ever matching TLM though, and that's not only the inner nostalgic talking, it's just that good! Fall 2013 can't arrive soon enough!

[Pixelfox]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

Mulan and Hercules are good as well, but, like you say, may rely a bit to much on comic relief. Lilo & Stitch is sweet, and Brother Bear holds up well.

Brother Bear was mentioned so I thought I might bring this up now: does anyone else find that it starts out as incredibly boring, and only really proves itself later on? I've seen the film twice: in theatres and once on TV, and both times I just hated the first half. I found every single human character unlikable to start with, and so I had zero compassion for Kenai straight away and the

[Show spoiler]death of his brother really didn't seem like much of a loss

, especially that early in the film. Then at some point along Kenai and Koda's journey I suddenly found myself liking the characters, but only just in time for the

[Show spoiler]heartbreaking realization that Kenai had killed Koda's mother and then that surprisingly emotional confession.

Anyone else feel that it was a rather average film that got better?

[taei]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

Oh, Brave... Look, I thought it was good, but at the same time, just a middle-tier in the Pixar library. I mean, the writing in places was just lazy. It's like they had this great starting point with the mother-daughter conflict,

[Show spoiler]but then everything just spiraled out of control once she left the castle and found a witch, who conveniently just was there to make a spell and never to be seen or heard from again once she had served that purpose. Then the conveniently placed "losing yourself to the bear"-scenes with the mother which made the father act extremely unrational compared to how he had been. The boys never showing any signs of this behaviour during their transformed times. The extraneous sub plot with the fourth king being turned into the bear etc.

There's so many problems with the film during its second half, both small and large, and I suspect this is a rushed afterthought to Brenda Chapman's original vision. I guess we'll never know for sure...

Brave to me was perfect. The plot was well paced, the message was well delivered. The relationship in the movie was great, animation.. I especially liked Merida's personality. And remember guys, she's 14, not 16 or 18 like most disney princesses. I don't know, I guess im kinda biased with it, but I think it is millions of miles better than tangled. Pixar has always been about impressing the audience, they took a dead-to-beat genre and perfected it. The level of depth and emotion in the character's facial expressions is enough to impress me. The scenes that happen and the way they react, it seemed so realistic to me. That is just my opinion. I know a lot of people who didn't like it.

[14731779]

TLM was the first movie i saw in theaters, the resterod edition of 1998 and i fall in love with that film! Is my fav of all disney movies and i think it always be, though i love all the others renassaince movies like B&B, TLK, Pocahontas... TLM will always be my fav disney movie

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

Oh, Brave... Look, I thought it was good, but at the same time, just a middle-tier in the Pixar library. I mean, the writing in places was just lazy. It's like they had this great starting point with the mother-daughter conflict,

And even then, felt like Rapunzel had already stolen the whole teen-daughter/'Mo-om!" fairytale metaphor more imaginatively with Tangled first, and Brave didn't realize it was only following in those footsteps. And not as well, which seems heretical for Pixar to be following behind anybody.

There's so many problems with the film during its second half, both small and large, and I suspect this is a rushed afterthought to Brenda Chapman's original vision. I guess we'll never know for sure...

I suspect so: Given Chapman's persecuted-feminist "Nobody likes a female director!" rant after being fired off the project, it's possible her draft was playing the mom/daughter Lifetime Network card a little TOO heavily for Pixar's audience-balance taste, and making it more of a "personal statement" where Pixar likes its stories to be more group efforts.
And so the Brain Trust tried to water down Chapman's "Take Your Daughter To Work in the Castle Day" female-empowerment story with more generic Braveheart adventure for the mass-audience crowd.
It was a noble effort, but...

Originally Posted by Whirlygig

From there...The Lion King - I was 13 when this came out. Age of innocence was ending, which could easily have something to do with how I received the movie. I really liked it then; yes, we bought it, yes, I memorized the soundtrack, but something about it just puts it a notch below the first three, for me. Hard to say what. Possibly too much comic relief?
Was kind of disappointed in Princess & the Frog at the theater, but when I watched it again at home I really liked it. IMO really did come close to the original renaissance magic, in fact I would possibly see myself putting it above The Lion King.

Princess/Frog didn't really seem to have a story at its base: It was based on a contemporary book nobody really knew (no, not the "original tale"), and even then threw 90% out of the window and made up the rest on the spot. It's all nice for what it is, but there's no classic-story core to tap into your memories of the original tale like Snow White or Alice, it just seems to blow past you, and you end up thinking "Why did I watch this?"

That's one (ONE) of the problems I thought sank Lion King:
They had a "classic" story that nobody really knew (okay, vintage anime series,

[Show spoiler]

Leo the Lion episode 2: "The Map of Danger" Part 1/2 - YouTube

, because it was the only Japanimation icon the suits remembered from their 60's childhood), and then they couldn't legally/publicly admit they knew it in the first place.
And then, like B&B, taking whatever bits of the original story hadn't already been removed, and putting them into the Woolver-Matic blender at high speed, leaving no gritty taste of the original story whatever, and just subjecting us to improvised Disney-written comedy with Nathan Lane, and the almost vindictively schoolyard wussy-villain depictions of the Katzenberg era.
(There did strangely seem to be a distinct "He's just a big coward and a bully, but I'll show 'im!" emphasis toward the antagonists while Jeff was at the studio... )

It's All About The Story, and as we know from the vidquels...Disney's just not that good at writing their own.

[zoodermin]

Originally Posted by Lnds500

Actually I think TLK is the most overrated Disney film ever. It's a masterpiece, it's amazing but it has flaws. It's not the "perfect" film everyone claims it to be. 8/10 times another person my age will proclaim TLK is his/her "favourite animated film" and "everything is compared to that".

I don’t consider any movie to be perfect (not even Beauty and the Beast which is my favorite Disney movie) but I think that these films are greatly executed and any flaw they can have are not of great concern. The Lion King has certainly a large following (myself included) and it has always been surrounded by hype not in minor part because of disney marketing (“the apex of the disney Renaissance”, “highest grossing traditional animated film”, “2 Oscars”, etc.) But, if you see the movie without any of the hype, is still an excellent one and its reputation is well deserved.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Lnds500

Actually I think TLK is the most overrated Disney film ever. It's a masterpiece, it's amazing but it has flaws. It's not the "perfect" film everyone claims it to be. 8/10 times another person my age will proclaim TLK is his/her "favourite animated film" and "everything is compared to that".

And while I've been one of the few to find TLK slimy yet un-satisfying, I'll say it and I'll stand by it:
Would Beauty&Beast and Lion King EVER have become "classics" if they didn't have Mermaid and Aladdin as "warmup acts"?
Was there any other factor at play besides "Retroactive delayed-reaction brand loyalty"?

(Y'know like, "Was Up really a better Pixar movie than Wall-E, or did it just suddenly occur to us eight months too late to start Oscar-nominating them?")