Oppo BDP-103/105/103D/105D Networked Universal Blu-ray Players

[Paul.R.S]

Re ". . . the reality remains that all of our electronic devices are now basically computers and as computers, there are going to be software updates and there are going to be bugs."

Originally Posted by pentatonic

My thoughts exactly

It's a problematic analogy (yet one that is typical of the kinds of broad rationalizations offered by OPPO cheerleaders).

Over the past, oh, five years the three different BlackBerrys and four different computers I have used the most have of course had software/firmware updates. But those updates were largely to broaden the gear's functionalities, address problems I was theretofore not even aware of and enhance security against malware/viruses. The updates were largely not to redress some specific glitch/issue I experienced that precluded me from doing something I wanted to do, something as basic as a core functionality of the unit.

I've never had to get a firmware update just to get my e-mail or make phone calls on my BlackBerrys. I've never had to get a software update to open a Word file or use Safari to open SA-CD.net. But I have had to apply firmware updates just to (sometimes) resolve disc playback issues with my OPPO player. (And this has yet to be as frequently the case with one Sony and three Panny BD players.)

I'm reminded of Cool Hand Luke: "Calling it your job don't make it right . . ." Calling the deck a computer don't make the reasonable criticism less valid much less go away.

[Kirk Out]

was going to get the 93 but i think ill pick the 103 instead

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Yamaha has a another Universal player announced called the BD-A1020 that also does these functions. Goes for $449. But if one compares the rear of each player, its night and day to what the differences are between players for similar prices, Oppo BDP-103 being slightly more expensive. As far as abilities not even close.

BD-A2010 rear
BDP-103 rear

Actually from the specs available, there are no mention of the video scaler, also it doesn't mention if it does PAL>NTSC conversion just that it reads it and outputs it. No 4K (though when they become available they will have their own scalers) 1 less HDMI, no HDMI input (If someone doesn't have a ggod scaler in their AVR it might be useful for digital TV sources)

I would def go Oppo for only $50 more

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Re ". . . the reality remains that all of our electronic devices are now basically computers and as computers, there are going to be software updates and there are going to be bugs."



It's a problematic analogy (yet one that is typical of the kinds of broad rationalizations offered by OPPO cheerleaders).

Over the past, oh, five years the three different BlackBerrys and four different computers I have used the most have of course had software/firmware updates. But those updates were largely to broaden the gear's functionalities, address problems I was theretofore not even aware of and enhance security against malware/viruses. The updates were largely not to redress some specific glitch/issue I experienced that precluded me from doing something I wanted to do, something as basic as a core functionality of the unit.

I've never had to get a firmware update just to get my e-mail or make phone calls on my BlackBerrys. I've never had to get a software update to open a Word file or use Safari to open SA-CD.net. But I have had to apply firmware updates just to (sometimes) resolve disc playback issues with my OPPO player. (And this has yet to be as frequently the case with one Sony and three Panny BD players.)

I'm reminded of Cool Hand Luke: "Calling it your job don't make it right . . ." Calling the deck a computer don't make the reasonable criticism less valid much less go away.

No it doesn't, but Oppo is not the only ones who have such problems. You seem to have had a lot. For me I've not experienced any, so I guess I'm not a good judge. I think the PS3 was and probably still is the player with the least problems with Blu-ray, and when I went from my PS3 to my Oppo, I didn't feel like it was a more buggy player.

It will be great if they ever get to sell players that don't need firmware upgrades to play all correctly, but I don't think we're there unfortunately.

[MrSlr]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Compare the previous QDEO used in the 93/95 with the latest QDEO used in the 103/105:

• 88DE2750 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter with Qdeo™ Video Processing, no embedded CPU, 1 input port.
  
• 88DE2755 Adaptive Digital Video Format Converter SOC with Qdeo™ Video Processing. Integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, with 3D support. Embedded cpu consisting of J1 ARM v5TE- compliant Marvell Processor Core @400Mhz with 16KB IRAM and 16KB Data RAM, 2 input ports.

As it stands right now, DSD direct is only available out the Mediatek HDMI-2 output rather then the QDEO HDMI-1 output. Can't say if you would be able to audibly discern the differences of using DSD Direct over HDMI, versus PCM over HDMI.

With the added CPU power, wouldnt it be easier for the oppo to run DSD direct.. Im a bit lost in your post.. But ya i have no problem running PCM, its just my oppo 80 had DSD direct and it was 280 bucks.. why not the 500 dollar 103.. Either way, i plan to get a 103 and put the 80 in the bedroom.. (wife and i want the 103 bad..)

It would probably sound better in the PCM world anyways in my living room.. Just a point i was making (whether a good one or not)

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by MrSlr

With the added CPU power, wouldnt it be easier for the oppo to run DSD direct.. Im a bit lost in your post.. But ya i have no problem running PCM, its just my oppo 80 had DSD direct and it was 280 bucks.. why not the 500 dollar 103.. Either way, i plan to get a 103 and put the 80 in the bedroom.. (wife and i want the 103 bad..)

It would probably sound better in the PCM world anyways in my living room.. Just a point i was making (whether a good one or not)

I agree, it should, but you can still acces it using the second HDMI output. I guess it's a processor limitation somehow.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by MrSlr

With the added CPU power, wouldnt it be easier for the oppo to run DSD direct.. Im a bit lost in your post.. But ya i have no problem running PCM, its just my oppo 80 had DSD direct and it was 280 bucks.. why not the 500 dollar 103.. Either way, i plan to get a 103 and put the 80 in the bedroom.. (wife and i want the 103 bad..)

It would probably sound better in the PCM world anyways in my living room.. Just a point i was making (whether a good one or not)

To clarify the new processor uses a integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, that doesn't allow DSD currently from HDMI-1 output.

As it stands right now, if you want to use SACD DSD output over HDMI, then you need to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outputs to your AVR. Use HDMI 1 for everything other than SACD, then switch to another input on your AVR to listen to SACD DSD via HDMI 2.

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

. . . but Oppo is not the only ones who have such problems. You seem to have had a lot. For me I've not experienced any, so I guess I'm not a good judge.

I disagree with the latter part of your first sentence for reasons I've stated repeatedly right here in this thread.

If by your own statement you're "not a good judge" because your experience has been different than mine with regards to the (SA-CD and DVD-A) disc playback problem precedents which inform my perspective about Cinavia implementation on the new OPPOs (the subject that was the genesis of my most recent participation in this thread), I'm at a loss in understanding why you either on your own have so many "defensive"/borderline dismissive things to say--or post in agreement with others who do--regarding my contributions.

Why not let other members have their say, informed by their experience, without you seemingly needing to grab the pom poms every time someone offers something reasonably critical and well-argued about their (different than your) experience? In that regard, my experiences are ironically not really the primary issue: I have as many if not more problems with some folks' dismissive response to reasonable criticisms as I did/do player disc playback issues.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

I disagree with the latter part of your first sentence for reasons I've stated repeatedly right here in this thread.

If by your own statement you're "not a good judge" because your experience has been different than mine with regards to the (SA-CD and DVD-A) disc playback problem precedents which inform my perspective about Cinavia implementation on the new OPPOs (the subject that was the genesis of my most recent participation in this thread), I'm at a loss in understanding why you either on your own have so many "defensive"/borderline dismissive things to say--or post in agreement with others who do--regarding my contributions.

Why not let other members have their say, informed by their experience, without you seemingly needing to grab the pom poms every time someone offers something reasonably critical and well-argued about their (different than your) experience? In that regard, my experiences are ironically not really the primary issue: I have as many if not more problems with some folks' dismissive response to reasonable criticisms as I did/do player disc playback issues.

I do apologize if I appear as a fanboy and don't mean to undermine your points. If I did, it wasn't my point and will refrain from further comments. My point was only that there are as many happy customers as unhappy I guess.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

To clarify the new processor uses a integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, that doesn't allow DSD currently from HDMI-1 output.

As it stands right now, if you want to use SACD DSD output over HDMI, then you need to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outputs to your AVR. Use HDMI 1 for everything other than SACD, then switch to another input on your AVR to listen to SACD DSD via HDMI 2.

DSD over HDMI 1 has always been a standard feature on all OPPO Blu-ray players until now. This is a downgrade for those consumers that use SACD’s a lot. Having to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 to ones A/V receiver in order to use DSD is a bad feature.

I might end up keeping the OPPO BDP-93 that also has an e-SATA jack with DSD available on HDMI 1. This might be a deal breaker for me since it’s more like a downgrade since one is losing some features.

I realize that the SACD and DVD-Audio feature is a niche market but that is one of the main reasons people purchase the OPPO Blu-ray players when compared to other brands on the market. The Sony BDP-S790 for $250 list price does DSD over HDMI port 1 and it offers around 50 different streaming services with 4K upscale. Its great that the new OPPO BDP-103 has 1080P Netflix with 5.1 surround sound but they also need more streaming services like Amazon on demand for some people to justify upgrading their Blu-ray player. With the loss of the e-sata feature, HDMI 1 DSD, and no analog HD or SD video output this new OPPO Blu-ray player should have been priced at $399. Possible there has been some inflation in electronics that requires features to be removed with a $499 list price. I am sure some will say that the 4K upscale feature and the dual core fast loading processor is why this Blu-ray player has a $499 list price instead of $399. I have not been a fan of Pioneer Blu-ray players but their latest Pioneer Elite BDP-62FD has a $399 list price with both the SACD and DVD-Audio feature.

[HDTV1080P]

It looks this new OPPO BDP-103 might start shipping in October. They already have an official firmware that was released on September 19th 2012. Not a BETA firmware like the OPPO BDP-93 shipped with back in NOV/DEC of 2010.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103-Support.aspx

[solarrdadd]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

To clarify the new processor uses a integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, that doesn't allow DSD currently from HDMI-1 output.

As it stands right now, if you want to use SACD DSD output over HDMI, then you need to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outputs to your AVR. Use HDMI 1 for everything other than SACD, then switch to another input on your AVR to listen to SACD DSD via HDMI 2.

this, if true, i think is a mistake for oppo to do it this way. it will make a lot of people unhappy. they will lose an HDMI input on their receivers/pre-amps. imagine if you had none free and you were upgrading from your 80 or 90 series to the newer one; you'd be in trouble if you wanted DSD over HDMI or you would have to switch lugging cables in all the time.

again, if it's true....not a good idea oppo!

[HDTV1080P]

Page 62 of the OPPO BDP-103 manual says the following:

“Due to the hardware limitation, DSD output is only available from the HDMI 2 OUT port. To listen to SACD using the HDMI 1 OUT port, please set SACD Output to PCM.”

OPPO BDP-103 Blu-ray Disc Player User Manual (PDF Format)

Notice how they say its a hardware limitation. If that is true then a firmware update will not be able to fix the issue.

[MrSlr]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Page 62 of the OPPO BDP-103 manual says the following:

“Due to the hardware limitation, DSD output is only available from the HDMI 2 OUT port. To listen to SACD using the HDMI 1 OUT port, please set SACD Output to PCM.”

OPPO BDP-103 Blu-ray Disc Player User Manual (PDF Format)

Notice how they say its a hardware limitation. If that is true then a firmware update will not be able to fix the issue.

Bingo!! what i saw in the manual

Originally Posted by JohnAV

To clarify the new processor uses a integrated v1.4 HDMI Rx and Tx, that doesn't allow DSD currently from HDMI-1 output.

As it stands right now, if you want to use SACD DSD output over HDMI, then you need to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outputs to your AVR. Use HDMI 1 for everything other than SACD, then switch to another input on your AVR to listen to SACD DSD via HDMI 2.

I saw the HDMI 2 in the manual for DSD.. But thanks for the explanation. I still think this is a mistake on oppos part, a lot of people are probably (my opinion) going to not read the manual and assume SACD works the same as always in the oppo players.. I dont see this being good for oppo.. i see it as a negative.. I have been slowly getting into SACD's so now im looking at going PCM which again isnt a big deal, but for some it will be..Just opinion of course..

I believe i am also out of HDMI slots, so PCM would be my only way (my reciever doesnt have multi channel RCA's)

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

I do apologize if I appear as a fanboy and don't mean to undermine your points. If I did, it wasn't my point and will refrain from further comments. My point was only that there are as many happy customers as unhappy I guess.

Thank you for the refreshing apology.

It's not so much my goal to get you (or anyone else) to hold their tongue. This is a discussion forum.

But I am trying to underscore the idea that there are different OPPO enthusiasm strokes for different folks. Just take a look at the five posts since your last one, pentatonic, regarding DSD via HDMI. It's this perennial albeit sometimes unwitting tendency to quash discussion/criticism of the players' SA-CD/DVD-A performance by those who are perhaps not as enthusiastic about those formats that I have a real problem with. I am just as much if not more a (high rez) music buff as I am a BD/movie fan. That (and analog m.c. outputs) are big components of the reasons I'm interested in OPPO.

I would say that there are MORE happy customers than unhappy (at least in an OPPO discussion/owner thread). I just bought a 93 given my concerns about Cinavia. I maintain my gear immaculately. If those concerns turn out to be unfounded, I will likely sell the 93 the same way I did my 83 (to a buyer who was stunned that the player was used given its appearance) and get a 103. I don't feel that that's a perspective that should be argued when someone asked 'what's the deal with Cinavia/is it going to be a problem?'

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

DSD over HDMI 1 has always been a standard feature on all OPPO Blu-ray players until now. This is a downgrade for those consumers that use SACD’s a lot. Having to connect both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 to ones A/V receiver in order to use DSD is a bad feature.

I might end up keeping the OPPO BDP-93 that also has an e-SATA jack with DSD available on HDMI 1. This might be a deal breaker for me since it’s more like a downgrade since one is losing some features.

I realize that the SACD and DVD-Audio feature is a niche market but that is one of the main reasons people purchase the OPPO Blu-ray players when compared to other brands on the market. The Sony BDP-S790 for $250 list price does DSD over HDMI port 1 and it offers around 50 different streaming services with 4K upscale. Its great that the new OPPO BDP-103 has 1080P Netflix with 5.1 surround sound but they also need more streaming services like Amazon on demand for some people to justify upgrading their Blu-ray player. With the loss of the e-sata feature, HDMI 1 DSD, and no analog HD or SD video output this new OPPO Blu-ray player should have been priced at $399. Possible there has been some inflation in electronics that requires features to be removed with a $499 list price. I am sure some will say that the 4K upscale feature and the dual core fast loading processor is why this Blu-ray player has a $499 list price instead of $399. I have not been a fan of Pioneer Blu-ray players but their latest

Your not loosing doing DSD direct over HDMI, it just not possible to do this via HDMI-1 due to the new QDEO. eSATA support was also added by Marvell with the 88DE2750, and taken away with the 88DE2755. Its pointless to complain about the analog sunset where its required to remove analog SD/HD video out, thats a fact of life. Steaming app's such as Amazon on demand are available using any setup top box with the HDMI inputs. There is a base set included with the Oppo, but its is not the reason you buy a universal BD player in the first place in any instance. You can hook any box you want to this player and use the 103/105 video processing to further enhance what you see on your HDTV. Whatever gets release as the base configuration specs of each player will always be expanded on later, as that is always the way it goes with Oppo products.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

this, if true, i think is a mistake for oppo to do it this way. it will make a lot of people unhappy. they will lose an HDMI input on their receivers/pre-amps. imagine if you had none free and you were upgrading from your 80 or 90 series to the newer one; you'd be in trouble if you wanted DSD over HDMI or you would have to switch lugging cables in all the time.

again, if it's true....not a good idea oppo!

If your HDMI-1 output goes to a HDTV and your HDMI-2 goes to a AVR, what port have you lost? Most people don't worry about DSD over HDMI, especially when you have two HDMI outputs to utilize.

[JimShaw]

PLEASE GIVE ME SOME UNDERSTANDING OF THE FOLLOWING...

4K Up-scaling - Enhance the home theater experience with four times the resolution of Full HD 1080p by up-scaling all video sources to 4K (3840 x 2160) output resolution.

Does this mean that a Blu will upscale and will look sharper on a 65" 1080 TV playing on a 103 vs my 93?

If so, how can that be if the TV's capability is only 1080p?


m

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

PLEASE GIVE ME SOME UNDERSTANDING OF THE FOLLOWING...

4K Up-scaling - Enhance the home theater experience with four times the resolution of Full HD 1080p by up-scaling all video sources to 4K (3840 x 2160) output resolution.

Does this mean that a Blu will upscale and will look sharper on a 65" 1080 TV playing on a 103 vs my 93?

If so, how can that be if the TV's capability is only 1080p?


m

4k x 2k refers to the QDEO upscaling 1080P to near 4K when using a 4K HDTV or projector. It is of no benefit to a 1080P display. What they are doing is applying interpolation techniques that are similar to how DVD's were upscaled to near HD earlier. What you would observe is increased sharpness and some added detail if you had a 4K display.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

4k x 2k refers to the QDEO upscaling 1080P to near 4K when using a 4K HDTV or projector. It is of no benefit to a 1080P display. What they are doing is applying interpolation techniques that are similar to how DVD's were upscaled to near HD earlier. What you would observe is increased sharpness and some added detail if you had a 4K display.

JohnAV

I thank you for the knowledge. I am always upgrading and will at almost any reason. But it doesn't look like upgrading from a 93 to a 103. Maybe next time.

Thanks