'Looper' Review Thread (Use Spoiler Tags)

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by lemonski

So what you're telling me is Bruce Willis, who has

[Show spoiler] singlehandedly mown down a complete army of goons 10 minutes earlier is somehow not going to be able to chase down a 10 year old boy and kill him?

[Show spoiler]I would say that after Bruce killed his mother, Cid turned Bruce into a pile of bones.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

You're looking for reasons to complain.

Why, should this film be above complaint?

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

[Show spoiler]The kid was already running, and we see that there's no way he hit the kid, because the mother is standing right in the path for the bullet. That means the kid runs, Willis never catches him,

Oh, so Willis just goes

[Show spoiler]"That 10 year old kid is running too fast for me to catch him, I'll just give up now, forget about my dead wife 'n all" - despite that for the rest of the movie he acts like The Terminator? And if you suppose that Willis dies - through the kid's scream - clearly JGL does not die (because his future self 30 years older visits him). So with the mother dead, the kid is now definitely on the path to becoming the Rain Maker...where does that leave JGL? Exactly where Willis was! He knows he is going to die in 30 years, his wife is going to die, a lot of people will die - unless he kills the kid!

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

...(he) realizes that because of

[Show spoiler]his future selfs selfish desires, that this is why this all happens. If he kills himself before any of this happens, then the future is a better place and Cid never becomes the Rainmaker.

No it doesn't, bollocks.

[Show spoiler] He imagines what will happen...he hasn't suddenly become clairvoyant. And yet he stupidly decides to ignore the one person who *IS* effectively clairvoyant (Willis) and leaves Cid's future to the chance of upbringing. The one *guaranteed, risk free* way to make sure there is no Rain Maker is to kill him first.

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

He

[Show spoiler]ends the loop, and everything turns out better.

We know that it doesn't

[Show spoiler]because Willis tells us so. Ending the loop and JGL not existing anymore has no bearing on whether the boy grows up to be evil. You're saying because he has a mother everything will be hunky dory and he'll have the chance to be normal - yet we know this turns out not to be so.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Why, should this film be above complaint?



Oh, so Willis just goes

[Show spoiler]"That 10 year old kid is running too fast for me to catch him, I'll just give up now, forget about my dead wife 'n all" - despite that for the rest of the movie he acts like The Terminator? And if you suppose that Willis dies - through the kid's scream - clearly JGL does not die (because his future self 30 years older visits him). So with the mother dead, the kid is now definitely on the path to becoming the Rain Maker...where does that leave JGL? Exactly where Willis was! He knows he is going to die in 30 years, his wife is going to die, a lot of people will die - unless he kills the kid!

No it doesn't, bollocks.

[Show spoiler] He imagines what will happen...he hasn't suddenly become clairvoyant. And yet he stupidly decides to ignore the one person who *IS* effectively clairvoyant (Willis) and leaves Cid's future to the chance of upbringing. The one *guaranteed, risk free* way to make sure there is no Rain Maker is to kill him first.

We know that it doesn't

[Show spoiler]because Willis tells us so. Ending the loop and JGL not existing anymore has no bearing on whether the boy grows up to be evil. You're saying because he has a mother everything will be hunky dory and he'll have the chance to be normal - yet we know this turns out not to be so.

I never said it was above complaint, but you're missing the whole point of what happened and why.

[Show spoiler]He wants to believe that being raised the correct way will make Cid turn out better. He had already lost one parent, and we see what happens in the future if he loses another. I never said he became clairvoyant either. He was just able to piece together an idea of the future, where Cid gets away, the mother dies, and it ends up becoming the exact same loop over and over again, to continually play out the same way. The way to end it is to make sure his future self never even has the chance to go back and time to try and kill Cid. If Cid is left alone and has a normal upbringing, controlling his powers, he won't become the rainmaker. Joe sees that, due to his selfish nature, present and future, that it causes the rainmaker to exist. So Joe thinks that if he ends his life, closing the loop and changing the future to one that hasn't happened yet, will make it so that Cid won't grow up to be the rainmaker. That's the whole point. He sacrifices his life for a future that hasn't happened yet. The only future we've seen is the one where Cid does become rainmaker, not the one where he doesn't. That's the one Joe is trying to create. He doesn't want to make the same selfish mistake his future self did. He realized it was wrong and stopped it.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Why, should this film be above complaint?



Oh, so Willis just goes

[Show spoiler]"That 10 year old kid is running too fast for me to catch him, I'll just give up now, forget about my dead wife 'n all" - despite that for the rest of the movie he acts like The Terminator? And if you suppose that Willis dies - through the kid's scream - clearly JGL does not die (because his future self 30 years older visits him). So with the mother dead, the kid is now definitely on the path to becoming the Rain Maker...where does that leave JGL? Exactly where Willis was! He knows he is going to die in 30 years, his wife is going to die, a lot of people will die - unless he kills the kid!

No it doesn't, bollocks.

[Show spoiler] He imagines what will happen...he hasn't suddenly become clairvoyant. And yet he stupidly decides to ignore the one person who *IS* effectively clairvoyant (Willis) and leaves Cid's future to the chance of upbringing. The one *guaranteed, risk free* way to make sure there is no Rain Maker is to kill him first.

We know that it doesn't

[Show spoiler]because Willis tells us so. Ending the loop and JGL not existing anymore has no bearing on whether the boy grows up to be evil. You're saying because he has a mother everything will be hunky dory and he'll have the chance to be normal - yet we know this turns out not to be so.

Point 1:

[Show spoiler] it's not that the kid is running too fast, he runs into a corn field never to be seen again. And JGL clearly dies since the rule of time travel in the film is that nothing happens to the future self until it's happened in present time, hence why earlier the best friend slowly has his limbs disappearing

.

Point 2:

[Show spoiler]Maybe not, but the theme of the film is fate and hope, if the boy grows up in a natural relationship, he might not use his powers for evil. JGL kills himself not because he banged the girl, or that he hopes the kid will have a good life. It's that his future self is a right bastard who kills kids for selfish reasons. The violence is the loop, and JGL closes it.

There are problems with the ending, it's rushed but it makes sense theatrical wise.

[pittpanthersfan]

Why did

[Show spoiler]Young Joe have to kill himself? Once he realized that he could prevent the development of the Rainmaker by the preservation of Sara, wouldn't Old Joe immediately come to the same realization and abort the assassination?

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by pittpanthersfan

Why did

[Show spoiler]Young Joe have to kill himself? Once he realized that he could prevent the development of the Rainmaker by the preservation of Sara, wouldn't Old Joe immediately come to the same realization and abort the assassination?

[Show spoiler]No. Because Older Joe was on a selfish rampage and only wanted to see things his way. He was so set on having his life with his wife in the future that nothing else mattered. So much so he was willing to let this same loop happen over and over and over again.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

[Show spoiler]He wants to believe that being raised the correct way will make Cid turn out better.

Which is

[Show spoiler]idiotic. Willis knows before the two have even met the mother and the boy that the Rain Maker exists in the future, and we also know this because all the other loopers are being closed....so we know that even *with* his mother having raised him "the correct way" he becomes the Rain Maker (or at the very least, he can possibly become the Rain Maker). Killing him is the only sure fire way to make sure that he can't.

I see what you are saying, and that's what the director wants the audience to believe of JGL's character, but it's Pollyanna thinking that flies in the face of everything that has gone before it in the movie.

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

If Cid

[Show spoiler]is left alone and has a normal upbringing, controlling his powers, he won't become the rainmaker.

This is clearly not true, because

[Show spoiler]JGL/Willis has already been closed by the Rain Maker before they have even met the boy - and his mother (the farm girl) is still alive and bringing him up "normally". So this is not any kind of guarantee.

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Joe sees that,

[Show spoiler]due to his selfish nature, present and future, that it causes the rainmaker to exist. So Joe thinks that if he ends his life, closing the loop and changing the future to one that hasn't happened yet, will make it so that Cid won't grow up to be the rainmaker. That's the whole point. He sacrifices his life for a future that hasn't happened yet. The only future we've seen is the one where Cid does become rainmaker, not the one where he doesn't. That's the one Joe is trying to create.

The operative word is

[Show spoiler]"trying". There is no guarantee. The future may be the one where we see the Rain Maker. It may be the one where we do not. If he kills Cid, it will definitely be the one where we do not. And if he kills himself - sure, he prevents his future self from trying to kill Cid. But that has no direct bearing on whether Cid becomes good Cid or evil Cid; he is still with his mother. So a) he kills himself in vain and b) by preventing his future self coming back and attempting to assassinate Cid, he actually makes it less likely that he prevents evil Cid from coming into being!

Despite what it sounds like, I quite enjoyed Looper, to a point (I gave it 4 out of 5 in the poll). I know it's easy to pick holes in time travel films, but I found the ending frustratingly stupid and the more I think about it the more ludicrous it becomes.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Which is

[Show spoiler]idiotic. Willis knows before the two have even met the mother and the boy that the Rain Maker exists in the future, and we also know this because all the other loopers are being closed....so we know that even *with* his mother having raised him "the correct way" he becomes the Rain Maker (or at the very least, he can possibly become the Rain Maker). Killing him is the only sure fire way to make sure that he can't.

I see what you are saying, and that's what the director wants the audience to believe of JGL's character, but it's Pollyanna thinking that flies in the face of everything that has gone before it in the movie.

This is clearly not true, because

[Show spoiler]JGL/Willis has already been closed by the Rain Maker before they have even met the boy - and his mother (the farm girl) is still alive and bringing him up "normally". So this is not any kind of guarantee.

The operative word is

[Show spoiler]"trying". There is no guarantee. The future may be the one where we see the Rain Maker. It may be the one where we do not. If he kills Cid, it will definitely be the one where we do not. And if he kills himself - sure, he prevents his future self from trying to kill Cid. But that has no direct bearing on whether Cid becomes good Cid or evil Cid; he is still with his mother. So a) he kills himself in vain and b) by preventing his future self coming back and attempting to assassinate Cid, he actually makes it less likely that he prevents evil Cid from coming into being!

Despite what it sounds like, I quite enjoyed Looper, to a point (I gave it 4 out of 5 in the poll). I know it's easy to pick holes in time travel films, but I found the ending frustratingly stupid and the more I think about it the more ludicrous it becomes.

Fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree and see it different ways. At least the movie is even leaving to debates, which is a good thing. People are taking it different ways, which I think is a good thing.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree and see it different ways. At least the movie is even leaving to debates, which is a good thing. People are taking it different ways, which I think is a good thing.

Isnt the plot essentially the same as the Terminator?

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Isnt the plot essentially the same as the Terminator?

Yes and no, but with a completely different ending. That's what we're debating back and forth.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Foggy

Point 1:

[Show spoiler] it's not that the kid is running too fast, he runs into a corn field never to be seen again.

So after we have seen

[Show spoiler]Bruce Willis track down this boy like the Terminator for half the movie we are supposed to believe he just gives up because he ran into a cornfield?

Originally Posted by Foggy

And JGL

[Show spoiler]clearly dies since the rule of time travel in the film is that nothing happens to the future self until it's happened in present time, hence why earlier the best friend slowly has his limbs disappearing

From

[Show spoiler]Cid's scream JGL cannot die. If JGL dies in 2044, Bruce Willis cannot travel back from 2074 to be standing next to him in the cornfield, because young JGL does not get to be 30 years older. And the only way he can be in the cornfield in the first place is if Bruce Willis gives him a piece of the map.

Originally Posted by Foggy

Point 2:

[Show spoiler]Maybe not, but the theme of the film is fate and hope, if the boy grows up in a natural relationship, he might not use his powers for evil. JGL kills himself not because he banged the girl, or that he hopes the kid will have a good life. It's that his future self is a right bastard who kills kids for selfish reasons.

I would say he's perhaps doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

[Show spoiler]Remember that from Bruce Willis' time perspective, the Rain Maker is this evil guy who's going around killing people, whereas from JGL's time perspective he is an innocent boy. If I travelled back in time to kill Hitler as a young boy, from my time period I look like a hero and from his I look like a monster.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by lemonski

So after we have seen

[Show spoiler]Bruce Willis track down this boy like the Terminator for half the movie we are supposed to believe he just gives up because he ran into a cornfield?

From

[Show spoiler]Cid's scream JGL cannot die. If JGL dies in 2044, Bruce Willis cannot travel back from 2074 to be standing next to him in the cornfield, because young JGL does not get to be 30 years older. And the only way he can be in the cornfield in the first place is if Bruce Willis gives him a piece of the map.

I would say he's perhaps doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

[Show spoiler]Remember that from Bruce Willis' time perspective, the Rain Maker is this evil guy who's going around killing people, whereas from JGL's time perspective he is an innocent boy. If I travelled back in time to kill Hitler as a young boy, from my time period I look like a hero and from his I look like a monster.

Ok, did you watch the film,

[Show spoiler]Willis was only able to track the kids via their date of birth and hospital number, he wasn't an expert tracker, and yeah, that would be the logic in The Butterfly Effect or Back to the Future, but here the logic is that anything that happens can be changed, but the link is through the person, so if something happens to past self, then it's on you as we'll because you caused it in present time, but anything that happens to future self becomes instantly null and void because it hasn't happened yet, creating a sort of parallel universe.

[Show spoiler]And maybe, but JGL believed Willis was the cause, if you failed to kill Hitler but instead killed one of his parents and he decided to hold it against you via all the horrible shit he did, I doubt you'd look a hero in either timeline

You can dislike the ending, but plotholes aren't the issue, it's a rushed final concept that doesn't wrap up the ending neatly.

[Elandyll]

Dying to go see it.
Was pleasantly surprised to see such good reviews

[Tony208]

The

[Show spoiler] only advantage Old Joe had over the kid was the element of surprise. Now that Cid knows he's after him, Old Joe may never get another shot. If the kid can level buildings, he can probably stop bullets with his super TK powers.

[growler]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Agree, the ending made no sense. If you're JGL

[Show spoiler]and you let future Joe kill the kid, not only is he prolonging his own life, he's saving his future wife and the future from this evil kid - like having the chance to kill Hitler as a young boy. Instead, he kills himself over some girl he met 5 minutes ago, just in the faint hope that she can "save" the kid by bringing him up right. WTF??? Idiotic. Didn't buy it for one second.

Excellent points/analysis.

[csdot]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Agree, the ending made no sense. If you're JGL

[Show spoiler]and you let future Joe kill the kid, not only is he prolonging his own life, he's saving his future wife and the future from this evil kid - like having the chance to kill Hitler as a young boy. Instead, he kills himself over some girl he met 5 minutes ago, just in the faint hope that she can "save" the kid by bringing him up right. WTF??? Idiotic. Didn't buy it for one second.

its easy to make all these points as the audience but the character didnt have all the facts and knowledge that we did.

[Show spoiler]he was in a situation where he had to make a split second decision and he chose to sacrifice himself for a woman who saved his life and a child he had clearly grown attached to. the movie shows that events can be changed and that there are multiple timelines, its not idiotic to think he might have given the boy a chance to have a normal life. the mother didnt know her son was going to grow up to be the rainmaker before, now that she has this information she has a chance to make sure it doesnt happen. its not that hard to understand.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by csdot

its easy to make all these points as the audience but the character didnt have all the facts and knowledge that we did.

Yes he did!

[Show spoiler]Bruce Willis tells him! JGL even repeats that to the mother, that the son "doesn't turn out well", yet at the very last minute we see him do a complete reversal and *spare the kid's life*!

Originally Posted by csdot

he was in a situation where he had to make a split second decision and he chose to

[Show spoiler]sacrifice himself for a woman who saved his life and a child he had clearly grown attached to.

Ignoring

[Show spoiler]his own advice about the future! Which is what makes it even more idiotic...it's not "Bruce Willis" or some random dude telling him what the future will be. It's himself! He chooses to ignore his own advice!

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Yes he did!

[Show spoiler]Bruce Willis tells him! JGL even repeats that to the mother, that the son "doesn't turn out well", yet at the very last minute we see him do a complete reversal and *spare the kid's life*!

Ignoring

[Show spoiler]his own advice about the future! Which is what makes it even more idiotic...it's not "Bruce Willis" or some random dude telling him what the future will be. It's himself! He chooses to ignore his own advice!

So what, doesn't turn out well for JGL if he listens to Willis or not...

[csdot]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Yes he did!

[Show spoiler]Bruce Willis tells him! JGL even repeats that to the mother, that the son "doesn't turn out well", yet at the very last minute we see him do a complete reversal and *spare the kid's life*!

Ignoring

[Show spoiler]his own advice about the future! Which is what makes it even more idiotic...it's not "Bruce Willis" or some random dude telling him what the future will be. It's himself! He chooses to ignore his own advice!

no, having someone tell you something and seeing something spelled out for you in a movie are not anywhere near the same thing.

[Show spoiler]the mother now has the knowledge of what her son may become, this is an advantage that didnt exist in Old Joe's timeline.

[Walter E Kurtz]

i think i need to watch this again lol

i ended up thinking

[Show spoiler]JGL, willis and the kid were all the same person,

ha

was a great movie tho i thought