The Criterion Collection

[Sukuri]

Just adding to this B&N drama.

I placed an order for Rashomon on Blu on Oct. 30th, and received Rashomon on DVD today.

Living up north, anyone know the best way to exchange the film?

[Simple Lines]

Originally Posted by joie

Why does this site's database indicate that "Stagecoach" and "The Killing" contain two movies? Criterion shows these as one movie with an extra feature that may or may not be interesting. Just to be cynical, I'll ask: Did someone make the site's database indicate two movies to boost his/her movie count? Whatever the reason, it's done inconsistently: "The Killing" has "The Killing (The Killing / Killer's Kiss)" and "Stagecoach" has "Stagecoach + Bucking Broadway." Criterion does not show the second title on either movie's front cover.

I know that I might solve the problem with the database entries for the Criterions by counting by SKU instead of database movie count; however, I have at least one Blu-ray, for example "Dirty Harry / Magnum Force," which is counted as two movies in the database and the Blu-ray has both titles shown on the front cover. I prefer to have that counted as two movies.

P.S. El Mariachi / Desperado is another example where it's done right -- the front cover indicates it's a "double feature" and has both titles, each in a different font, and its database entry indicates that there are two movies.

PS: "Blow Out" is another example of a Criterion release containing two movies, according to the site's database; however, the front cover makes no mention of the second movie, which is a supplement, which may or may not be interesting.

And... that's a big deal because....?

The bonus movies are always listed somewhere on the outside, so I don't understand why they shouldn't be counted as part of the movie total. Just because they don't have a huge logo with art? Psssh!

[thebard]

Originally Posted by joie

Why does this site's database indicate that "Stagecoach" and "The Killing" contain two movies?

Because... they contain two movies. Just because Criterion opts to list them as bonus features doesn't invalidate them as separate works on their own. I think the database is just trying to be accurate in reflecting what's in the package.

Should "The Gold Rush" not be listed as "1 Movie, 2 Cuts"? I mean Criterion doesn't mention the second cut on the cover. The Amazon Citizen Kane entry includes the second film in the subtitle ("Amazon exclusive w/ The Magnificent Ambersons DVD"), even though the box set cover only mentions Citizen Kane.

Also, keep in mind that (at this point in time) that is the only way those films will come up in a search, because they don't have a separate release of their own yet.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Sukuri

Just adding to this B&N drama.

I placed an order for Rashomon on Blu on Oct. 30th, and received Rashomon on DVD today.

Living up north, anyone know the best way to exchange the film?

Call B&N, they'll let you keep the item, refund your cash, and you'll have to grab it elsewhere. Trade the DVD or sell it. I had to do that with my duplicate blue of Dazed and Confused last year, and bought Kuroneko from Amazon. That I agree is irksome. I'm still waiting for my copy, so hopefully I won't be in the same boat. They'be been good so far thus sale though, despite some shipping delays.

[White Dang]

Originally Posted by thebard

Because... they contain two movies. Just because Criterion opts to list them as bonus features doesn't invalidate them as separate works on their own. I think the database is just trying to be accurate in reflecting what's in the package.

Should "The Gold Rush" not be listed as "1 Movie, 2 Cuts"? I mean Criterion doesn't mention the second cut on the cover. The Amazon Citizen Kane entry includes the second film in the subtitle ("Amazon exclusive w/ The Magnificent Ambersons DVD"), even though the box set cover only mentions Citizen Kane.

Also, keep in mind that (at this point in time) that is the only way those films will come up in a search, because they don't have a separate release of their own yet.

Just like Lady Vanishes also having a full movie. And Seventh Seal has Bergman Island, but its still counted as 1.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by White Dang

Just like Lady Vanishes also having a full movie. And Seventh Seal has Bergman Island, but its still counted as 1.

They probably haven't been edited, or someone did edit them. The database on thus site is not accurate by far.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by jcs913

For all the people having problems with Barnes, I suggest a phone call and not an e-mail. I have had NO problems with them for years. My last order from them was for the 2 11/13 releases, and it had a problem. They never released the order from the warehouse. The CS lady said the computer never updated it for release and said if I never called it still may be sitting there. That red flagged me on them and I have since cancelled my 12/4 releases and ordered from Best Buy( which will be here today ironically). I am beginning to think that Barnes does not have the resources anymore for these type of online sales. Their computer system and CS is lacking lately with all the complaints on this forum. It used to be Deep Discount that took the beating, but that seems to have changed...

BTW: I just got my ship conf. for DIE NIBELUNGEN from DD. They finally have it in-stock after a 2 week BO. Worth the wait for $18..

I usually get to a film almost every night, so I am mostly caught up, except for the Grémillon Eclipse set. I got to Remorques, which is fantastic, but not the other 2. It's tough to keep up, as I am a big hoops fan and with my Bulls missing Rose for another 3 months or so, its been interesting....

Yepper John...that's about what I paid for DIE NIBELUNGEN from Import CDs. I watched the whole film and just have the documentary to watch.

I agree with calling B & N customer service on the phone. I had an email address issue a while back and called them. They took care of it pretty quickly and painlessly.

[ShellOilJunior]

Just a reminder to vote for best Upgrade of 2012 if you haven't already. Use the link in my signature.

Next poll: Best New Spine & What were they thinking?

In two Weeks: Favorite Blind Buy & Best Release of the Year (It'll be done by how they're sold so the boxed sets won't have their films listed separately).

[Hawkguy]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

I loved The Living Skeleton, and Goke is fun in its way. The other two probably won't get replayed much.

Yeah, the first film sort of disappointed my expectations of the rest, but I really enjoyed both of those you mention...so I'm glad to have gotten it.

[joie]

Originally Posted by thebard

Because... they contain two movies. Just because Criterion opts to list them as bonus features doesn't invalidate them as separate works on their own. I think the database is just trying to be accurate in reflecting what's in the package.

Should "The Gold Rush" not be listed as "1 Movie, 2 Cuts"? I mean Criterion doesn't mention the second cut on the cover. The Amazon Citizen Kane entry includes the second film in the subtitle ("Amazon exclusive w/ The Magnificent Ambersons DVD"), even though the box set cover only mentions Citizen Kane.

Also, keep in mind that (at this point in time) that is the only way those films will come up in a search, because they don't have a separate release of their own yet.

They would come up in a search if someone created a database entry for them, then things like "Stagecoach," for all the reasons I gave, could be listed as one movie. The supplement would also have an entry as one movie, so that anyone interested could find it. Other vendors, as I said, display/name two movies on the front cover when the SKU contains two movies and the database indicates two movies. The second movies are not supplements like they are with the Criterion releases. Why doesn't Criterion release those supplemental movies separately? Or indidicate on the front cover that the package is a double feature?

"Gold Rush" is correctly entered as one movie. There is a field in its database entry to indicate the number of cuts. I don't care about Amazon's "Citizen Kane" entry, because I don't have it, so it doesn't affect the accuracy of my movie count.

I may try editing the "Stagecoach" entry to see what happens.

[Kevin Holly]

This begs the question, the bonus films are on Blu-Ray, right? I ask because, for instance, the Scarface steelbook has a DVD copy of the original Scarface.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by joie

They would come up in a search if someone created a database entry for them, then things like "Stagecoach," for all the reasons I gave, could be listed as one movie. The supplement would also have an entry as one movie, so that anyone interested could find it. Other vendors, as I said, display/name two movies on the front cover when the SKU contains two movies and the database indicates two movies. The second movies are not supplements like they are with the Criterion releases. Why doesn't Criterion release those supplemental movies separately? Or indidicate on the front cover that the package is a double feature?

"Gold Rush" is correctly entered as one movie. There is a field in the database entry to indicate the number of cuts.

I may try editing the "Stagecoach" entry to see what happens.

Two movies or not, they are more often called "supplements" because they are not restored and are typically in bad shape. CloseUp includes Kiarostami's first film The Traveler, but in 1080i and the picture isn't great. Same with Lonesome, including The Last Performance (1080p but from a damaged Danish print and missing the talkie sections). If the extra films were in high quality, it's oen thing, but they are included as supplements for a reason.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by rkish

Yepper John...that's about what I paid for DIE NIBELUNGEN from Import CDs. I watched the whole film and just have the documentary to watch.

I agree with calling B & N customer service on the phone. I had an email address issue a while back and called them. They took care of it pretty quickly and painlessly.

Funny how actually talking, not texting or sending an e-mail exudes honesty and seriousness from all parties... (Today's rant on society....)

Anyways, Rich, I assume it looks as good as the reviews have said? It's been about 5 years since I have seen it. I was on a Lang kick I remember.

Ironically, my 11/4 CC releases just showed up.. Brazil can wait, as I've been looking forward to Purple Noon since its announcement. I always loved the book its based on...

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by retablo

Two movies or not, they are more often called "supplements" because they are not restored and are typically in bad shape. CloseUp includes Kiarostami's first film The Traveler, but in 1080i and the picture isn't, eother edits Same with Lonesome, including The Last Performance (1080p but from a damaged Danish print and missing the talkie sections). If the extra films were in high quality, it's oen thing, but they are included as supplements for a reason.

I tried editing The Killing down to one title, but someone changes it back, so I figured what the hell, if one is going to say two, why not all? I've stopped caring about trying to make the database accurate as It's worse than Wikipedia with edits. Wreck-It Ralph has like 3 entries for the us release all with different dates and specs. To be honest, people would would be better off using Microsoft access or any other non-forum tracker.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by White Dang

Just like Lady Vanishes also having a full movie. And Seventh Seal has Bergman Island, but its still counted as 1.

...not to overlook Lonesone - another single release - which contains 3 movies.

[melo4mvp]

Originally Posted by Norbie

I had the same issue just with different titles. I made the order at the beginning of the sale and I'm still waiting for Brazil to be shipped.



be nice

I got an order of 7 movies in the other day and instead of one of my criterions they gave me a Tower Heist dvd. Kind of similar I guess Also ordered Heaven's Gate from them and finally cancelled it after waiting over two weeks and still not being shipped when I placed my order shortly after the sale started.

[BluPops]

Didn't find any mention of this, so... Ernst Lubtisch films on TCM for the month of December!

Check 'em out before buying the Criterion titles! Not that you really have to, since they're all great!


http://www.tcm.com/this-month/articl...h-Profile.html

[thebard]

Originally Posted by joie

They would come up in a search if someone created a database entry for them, then things like "Stagecoach," for all the reasons I gave, could be listed as one movie. The supplement would also have an entry as one movie, so that anyone interested could find it.

And that would work from the point of view of the movie section of this site's database. But it comes down to this: the Blu-ray section of the database is release oriented. If two movies are included in one release, they will be counted as such. Anthology box sets include their film count, and the movies are often not itemized separately on the front cover.

Originally Posted by joie

Other vendors, as I said, display/name two movies on the front cover when the SKU contains two movies and the database indicates two movies. The second movies are not supplements like they are with the Criterion releases. Why doesn't Criterion release those supplemental movies separately? Or indidicate on the front cover that the package is a double feature?

I think that's the crux of it. The database has it's accuracy problems, but the way it handles Criterion titles is not terribly inconsistent with the rest of the entries in this case. I would question, as you have, why Criterion has opted to list certain multiple film sets differently than others (the answer is likely, as stated elsewhere, due to the degree of restoration/transfering work gone into the title in question).

Originally Posted by joie

"Gold Rush" is correctly entered as one movie. There is a field in its database entry to indicate the number of cuts. I don't care about Amazon's "Citizen Kane" entry, because I don't have it, so it doesn't affect the accuracy of my movie count.

I may try editing the "Stagecoach" entry to see what happens.

Is that a determining factor in how the database should be implemented?

[joie]

Originally Posted by thebard

[..]Is that a determining factor in how the database should be implemented?

The database is already implemented; its capabilities simply need to be used. Everyone's needs (in terms of movie count) can be accommodated by the existing database. This is the entry for the Last Picture Show from the BBS set. It has a database entry and that entry is for one movie. It isn't for sale separately, but its page links to the BBS set. If someone wants to make a movie out of a Criterion supplement, something similar could be done. There could then be two movies associated with, say, Stagecoach: The feature and the supplement, but people could count Stageoach as one movie, then add the supplement as a second movie, if desired. The page for Stagecoach's supplement could state that the supplement is not separately available and refer people to the entry for Stagecoach, just as the individual BBS movies refer to the set. An entry for the supplemental movie would also permit people to write a synopsis, rate it and review it, just like the individual titles from the BBS set can be rated and reviewed. With the individual entries for the movies in the BBS set, a person can "disappear" a movie or two from his /her collection.

There is a reason why Criterion doesn't pretend that these things with "two movies" are two-movie packages. Why should we do so here when the database is flexible enough to accommodate the supplement separately?

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by joie

Here is how everyone's needs could be accommodated. This is the entry for the Last Picture Show from the BBS set. It has a database entry. It isn't for sale separately, but its page links to the BBS set. If someone wants to make a movie out of a Criterion supplement, something similar could be done. There could then be two movies associated with, say, Stagecoach. The feature and the supplement, but people could count Stageoach as one movie, then add the supplement as a second movie, if desired. The page for Stagecoach's supplement could state that the supplement is not separately available but refer people to the entry for Stagecoach, just as the individual BBS movies refer to the set.

There is a reason why Criterion doesn't pretend that these things with "two movies" are two-movie packages. Why should we do so here when the database is flexible enough to accommodate the supplement separately?

If the database entry can't be changed to accurately reflect the movie count, I may just count by SKUs instead of movies, because I don't have many SKUs with more than one movie, but do have a few: El Mariachi / Desperado, etc., which -- well, I've already written how I know when an SKU has two feature movies, so I won't repeat it. Stagecoach doesn't have two features.

The manner in which films are entered in the database has a very specific purpose. So please don't speculate what should and should not be done -- nothing is done in a random fashion.

The films in the BBS set are part of individually profiled by the distributor titles. This isn't a bundle.

Films offered as supplements are marked as such - because they are 'supplements'. And this is how they are supposed to be marked.

Thanks.