Official Power Sound Audio Thread.

[timcat4843]

Originally Posted by aces high

I had the chance to hear a system that featured quad SubM's earlier this year, it was a great experience and one that I'm looking to recreate in my home. The bass was coming from everywhere as the subs were placed in all four corners of the room. I don't need anymore output, just looking to spread the sound around the room better.

Your absolutely correct about a quad subwoofer setup.
Nothing beats it for total bass coverage in your room.

Even though I'm only running four budget subs in my small room, the improvement in bass response,
with multiple subwoofers is so apparent, you'll never want anything less in your HT.

I can only imagine what four properly calibrated XV30 subs would be like.
Absolute sonic nirvana, no doubt!

After running Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT calibration, the sound in my room is awesome.
Music and movies sound incredible!
I don't ever want to leave my home theater.
I'll just order in food, hookers and blow.

[Tom V.]

Originally Posted by aces high

I had the chance to hear a system that featured quad SubM's earlier this year, it was a great experience and one that I'm looking to recreate in my home. The bass was coming from everywhere as the subs were placed in all four corners of the room. I don't need anymore output, just looking to spread the sound around the room better.

As far as the Empires not being able to keep up, that may very well be a deficiency in my ability to set them up. I gain matched all the subs and measured tirelessly to get everything as flat as possible and each sub in the best measuring location in the room. The SubM always seemed more powerful and unless I bumped up the Empires 6db you could only really tell that the SubM was playing. When the Empires were bumped up that much they seemed to struggle in comparison to the SubM, to my ears anyway. I bought the Empires used and was able to sell them for the same price I paid so I let them go with the intentions of one day buying another pair of SubM's.

If your subs would be a better match than the Empire then that would be great as the price of the XS30 is very attractive. Or maybe I'm just chasing a wild dream.

What would your recommendation be?

Thanks Tom.

Would you be able to send me (support@powersoundaudio.com) a rough sketch of the room layout? If you could include any openings into the room, the speaker positioning and the seating that would be great. Oh, please indicate where you positioned the epiks too.

Have you discussed the above issues with Mark? He is usually spot on with his acoustical analysis.

Also, do you have fairly resolving measurement equipment? (i.e....not just a test disc and a SPL meter..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[Tom V.]

Originally Posted by timcat4843

Your absolutely correct about a quad subwoofer setup.
Nothing beats it for total bass coverage in your room.

Even though I'm only running four budget subs in my small room, the improvement in bass response,
with multiple subwoofers is so apparent, you'll never want anything less in your HT.

I can only imagine what four properly calibrated XV30 subs would be like.
Absolute sonic nirvana, no doubt!

After running Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT calibration, the sound in my room is awesome.
Music and movies sound incredible!
I don't ever want to leave my home theater.
I'll just order in food, hookers and blow.

There is always a bit of a balancing act when considering 1 versus 2(or 3, 4). If the choice was 1 great sub versus 4 of the same....okay, that's easy. But generally the breakdown is budget based. Meaning...1 $2000 subwoofer versus 2 $1000 subwoofer versus 4 $500 subwoofers. The advantage for the single $2000 option is it has the potential to provide performance metrics(extension for example) that multiples of less expensive subwoofers cannot. On the other hand, the multiple $500 option allows us an easier "hit" to the budget as we can break the costs down into multiple purchases over some length of time.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[aces high]

Originally Posted by Tom V.

Would you be able to send me (support@powersoundaudio.com) a rough sketch of the room layout? If you could include any openings into the room, the speaker positioning and the seating that would be great. Oh, please indicate where you positioned the epiks too.

Have you discussed the above issues with Mark? He is usually spot on with his acoustical analysis.

Also, do you have fairly resolving measurement equipment? (i.e....not just a test disc and a SPL meter..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Hi Tom,

I'm using the Dayton Omni Mic for measurements, my processor is equipped with Audyessy XT32 and I just purchased the Audyessy pro Kit this week. In addition to the room correction software I also have ATS Tr-Traps in all four corners and some open back 4' panels on top of them, they extent almost floor to ceiling. Here are the best measurements I've been able to achieve with the dual SubM's. I think I have some measurements of the SubM/Empire combo saved somewhere, I'll have to take a look. I'll get try and get a sketch over to you sometime this weekend. I was waiting to discuss things with Mark until I was getting closer to making a purchase. Trying to cut down my spending on gear and the XS30's hit the mark perfectly budget wise.

As you can see I've got plenty of output and extension, I'm using 1/12 octave smoothing. This measurement was taken at my preferred listening level of -10.
SubM 200hz.jpg

[Kali157]

I have been pondering going the DIY route for a 15 inch subs until I ran across Power Sound. I have a few (noobish) questions:

1. What is the advantage of going with the sealed XS15 vs the vented XV15, aside from the physical size consideration? The XV15 measures better. I know there have been many sealed vs ported sub debates. I guess I am asking SPECIFICALLY about the Power Sound offerings. In other words, Tom, why would YOU pick one over the other. For full disclosure, I enjoy balanced bass and don't run subs too hot. Also, I maybe moving my HT to a bigger/dedicated space of around 18x28x8.5 and am planning to buy/build 2 subs. The room will be used for both movies and music.

2. Are there any plans to offer other finishes?

Thanks for the info.

[Tom V.]

Originally Posted by Kali157

I have been pondering going the DIY route for a 15 inch subs until I ran across Power Sound. I have a few (noobish) questions:

1. What is the advantage of going with the sealed XS15 vs the vented XV15, aside from the physical size consideration? The XV15 measures better. I know there have been many sealed vs ported sub debates. I guess I am asking SPECIFICALLY about the Power Sound offerings. In other words, Tom, why would YOU pick one over the other. For full disclosure, I enjoy balanced bass and don't run subs too hot. Also, I maybe moving my HT to a bigger/dedicated space of around 18x28x8.5 and am planning to buy/build 2 subs. The room will be used for both movies and music.

2. Are there any plans to offer other finishes?

Thanks for the info.

Hi Kali157, In reverse order.

2)No. No plans to offer the Power-X products in any other finish at this time.

1)With 4000 cu-ft, I'd probably lean toward the XV15. The XS15 has its frequency response shaped to work best in rooms <3000 or so. Would a couple XS15s sound fantastic in your room space? I think so. However I would expect the XV15s to work a little better. The overall sound "quality" would be very similar and I doubt you most would be able to discern one from the other with most source material. However the larger, ported XV15 will have a 3dB(or so) headroom advantage. That, along with a frequency response shaped for slightly larger rooms like yours would make it my choice.

Whether you needed one or two XV15s would depend largely on the output levels used in the your system with the most demanding DVDs. Also, the expected distance between the subwoofer(s) and the key seating positions.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[Tom V.]

Aces High,

That is a good looking curve! If you could find the curves with all 4 subs that would be interesting.

Just off the top of my head I'm wondering if the unusually steep highpass of the epiks(around 20hz) caused some issues. They certainly should have had the headroom to "keep up" at 10dB under reference level.

Did you notice them sounding better/worse depending on specific source material used?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by Tom V.

Hi Kali157, In reverse order.

2)No. No plans to offer the Power-X products in any other finish at this time.

1)With 4000 cu-ft, I'd probably lean toward the XV15. The XS15 has its frequency response shaped to work best in rooms <3000 or so. Would a couple XS15s sound fantastic in your room space? I think so. However I would expect the XV15s to work a little better. The overall sound "quality" would be very similar and I doubt you most would be able to discern one from the other with most source material. However the larger, ported XV15 will have a 3dB(or so) headroom advantage. That, along with a frequency response shaped for slightly larger rooms like yours would make it my choice.

Whether you needed one or two XV15s would depend largely on the output levels used in the your system with the most demanding DVDs. Also, the expected distance between the subwoofer(s) and the key seating positions.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thank Tom. The reason for multiple subs is to hopefully attain a smoother response over possibly 2 rows of seats and a bar in the back. Thanks for the response.

[Tom V.]

Originally Posted by Kali157

Thank Tom. The reason for multiple subs is to hopefully attain a smoother response over possibly 2 rows of seats and a bar in the back. Thanks for the response.

That could work although to really optimize dual subs tends to require a bit of trial and error. If you had Audyssey 32 and HT SUB EQ that helps a lot!

DIYing is always an option too. If you are handy enough to knock together a couple of enclosures in short time finding quality drivers is easy enough. So if you had a couple spare amp channels on hand you are half way there..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[Kali157]

Originally Posted by Tom V.

That could work although to really optimize dual subs tends to require a bit of trial and error. If you had Audyssey 32 and HT SUB EQ that helps a lot!

DIYing is always an option too. If you are handy enough to knock together a couple of enclosures in short time finding quality drivers is easy enough. So if you had a couple spare amp channels on hand you are half way there..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

For sub EQ, I am using a Behringer mic, mic preamp, and parametric EQ (which has 2 channels) along with REW software. I also have a Velodyne SMS-1 for fun. I will probably get an AVR w/ Aud 32 some time. As for amps, I have a QSC GX5 which is right now running my sub (modded Outlaw sub w/ TC Sounds driver) and tactile transducers.

My biggest hurdle w/ a DIY route is my lack of skills of making the sub look good. Any chance of purchasing some cabinets off you guys? Without the amp plate hole would be even better.

Anyway, I sent you a PM as well.

[aces high]

Originally Posted by Tom V.

Aces High,

That is a good looking curve! If you could find the curves with all 4 subs that would be interesting.

Just off the top of my head I'm wondering if the unusually steep highpass of the epiks(around 20hz) caused some issues. They certainly should have had the headroom to "keep up" at 10dB under reference level.

Did you notice them sounding better/worse depending on specific source material used?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks Tom! That took roughly three 3hrs of moving the subs around and measuring numerous times. It's not perfectly flat but the best I could achieve in my room.

The Empire did seem to have trouble compared to the SubM the lower things got. I'm not exactly sure what the trouble was, in the end after all the measuring I let my ears be the judge and the Empire just didn't do it for me. In the mid bass region the Empire seemed just fine.

The XS30 doesn't have the same type of HPF or tons of boost down low does it?

So in theory with four subwoofers each one would need to play at 96db to achieve a summed output of 105db correct? Is the XS30 comfortable playing 15hz at 96db? I realize that things will vary from room to room, some being better than others. As you can see I've got quite a bit of room gain down low which should help.

[theJman]

Originally Posted by aces high

The Empire did seem to have trouble compared to the SubM the lower things got. I'm not exactly sure what the trouble was

Could it be that the SubM is a much better subwoofer? Just saying...

[aces high]

Originally Posted by theJman

Could it be that the SubM is a much better subwoofer? Just saying...

You think? What could have ever given you that idea?

That's exactly why I got rid of them, now that they're gone it really doesn't matter what the reason is. I'm only concerned with the PSA at the moment and not the Epik.

The safest thing to do is probably just go with another pair of SubM's, that's kind of boring though.

[Tom V.]

Originally Posted by aces high

You think? What could have ever given you that idea?

That's exactly why I got rid of them, now that they're gone it really doesn't matter what the reason is. I'm only concerned with the PSA at the moment and not the Epik.

The safest thing to do is probably just go with another pair of SubM's, that's kind of boring though.

When you send those graphs, if you have any that show seating response with just the submersives only...and same test with all 4. If you had this showing compression that might be very interesting to read. Do you remember a specific DVD scene or music track that would highlight(most audible) the limitations of the epiks in your system?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[soundwave628]

I can't even imagine listening to a movie at -10 for my speakers as well as my subs. Maybe in my subs case it's the fact that they're not submersives but for movies with lots of bass if i'm listening at like -24 the house/windows start to shake. and my speakers are only polk monitor series so i'm sure that doesn't help but wow, -10 with flat bass at 90db+ must be huge!

[PurpleJesus74]

Originally Posted by soundwave628

I can't even imagine listening to a movie at -10 for my speakers as well as my subs. Maybe in my subs case it's the fact that they're not submersives but for movies with lots of bass if i'm listening at like -24 the house/windows start to shake. and my speakers are only polk monitor series so i'm sure that doesn't help but wow, -10 with flat bass at 90db+ must be huge!

Yeah i agree,they must have some pretty big rooms to fill,i sit pretty close to my speakers so i can't go up nearly that high volume either.

[Tom V.]

Hi all,

Quick update, The first production run of the XS30s is sold out. We have an additional 60 cabinets arriving in mid January. We are trying to convince our vendor to do a few "7 day weeks" to ship us an additional 20-30 to tide us over but that has yet to be decided.

Thanks to all for the support,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

[pretsam]

Originally Posted by Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick update, The first production run of the XS30s is sold out. We have an additional 60 cabinets arriving in mid January. We are trying to convince our vendor to do a few "7 day weeks" to ship us an additional 20-30 to tide us over but that has yet to be decided.

Thanks to all for the support,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Selling like hotcakes!!

[CRAZYKAT]

I want to thank Tom V. for all the help/support with all of my questions on The Power X product line, given through personal Email,
The Pride and Dedication He and Jim have in producing the best product for the money is evident, but the amount of time he gives in answering questions shows his commitment to customer service and satisfaction.
I'm sure that's not easy when working with a Novice like me.

As a former business owner, I know that the continued research and development of products like these will surely bring success and keep customers happy for years to come.

Kudos to Tom and Jim.

Thanks again,

Crazy/ Arnie

[pretsam]

Originally Posted by CRAZYKAT

I want to thank Tom V. for all the help/support with all of my questions on The Power X product line, given through personal Email,
The Pride and Dedication He and Jim have in producing the best product for the money is evident, but the amount of time he gives in answering questions shows his commitment to customer service and satisfaction.
I'm sure that's not easy when working with a Novice like me.

As a former business owner, I know that the continued research and development of products like these will surely bring success and keep customers happy for years to come.

Kudos to Tom and Jim.

Thanks again,

Crazy/ Arnie

Did you purchase one Crazy or just inquire about the subs?