The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[hidef al]

I haven't found the individual releases in my area yet. Are the discs housed in black cases??

[chip75]

Originally Posted by hidef al

I haven't found the individual releases in my area yet. Are the discs housed in black cases??

Originally Posted by Randy Miller III

Hope that helps. They're screener copies though.

[hidef al]

That would answer my question. Thanks chip

[Toptube]

I've basically avoided any detailed accounts of the changes made to The Fellowship of the Ring.

I just popped it in about 20 minutes ago and I have paused the movie to come here and say:

The color has been re-graded to be orange/teal. I'm pretty upset about his. It looks really bad in the shire, where there is generally more color. Or at least, my brain is telling me there should be more, but its only being shown in two tones
: (

*bilbo's door has looked fake in just about every shot that its in. There just isn't enough color information being shown to give a proper impression of it.

Also, the contrast is off. Highlights are blown out. This often ruins depth in people's faces and in well lit scenes. Its not unlike taking a picture with a high mega-pixel digital camera----with a small image sensor.

[tylergfoster]

chip75, the internal paper covers match the slips? I prefer the art of the individuals to the art from the black cases inside the box.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Toptube

I've basically avoided any detailed accounts of the changes made to The Fellowship of the Ring.

I just popped it in about 20 minutes ago and I have paused the movie to come here and say:

The color has been re-graded to be orange/teal. I'm pretty upset about his. It looks really bad in the shire, where there is generally more color. Or at least, my brain is telling me there should be more, but its only being shown in two tones
: (

*bilbo's door has looked fake in just about every shot that its in. There just isn't enough color information being shown to give a proper impression of it.

Also, the contrast is off. Highlights are blown out. This often ruins depth in people's faces and in well lit scenes. Its not unlike taking a picture with a high mega-pixel digital camera----with a small image sensor.

Having worked as a professional photographer for 10 years, FOTR looks nothing like this, unless your TV is very improperly calibrated. Yes, the color has been changed, but hardly to that degree. If that's what you're seeing, then something is off on your end.

I see no blown out highlights in any of these.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...n=1&lossless=0

And look at some of the shots, like Gandalf's closeup... he's was blown out and bright red in the original version, yet looks perfectly fine in the remaster.

[Edword]

Originally Posted by droidguy1119

chip75, the internal paper covers match the slips? I prefer the art of the individuals to the art from the black cases inside the box.

Yes the case artwork is the same as the slipcovers.

[Toptube]

Originally Posted by retablo

Having worked as a professional photographer for 10 years, FOTR looks nothing like this, unless your TV is very improperly calibrated. Yes, the color has been changed, but hardly to that degree. If that's what you're seeing, then something is off on your end.

I see no blown out highlights in any of these.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...n=1&lossless=0

And look at some of the shots, like Gandalf's closeup... he's was blown out and bright red in the original version, yet looks perfectly fine in the remaster.

My TV is calibrated and it also has a THX mode that is regarded by reviewers as pretty darn accurate, except for a bit of yellow cast to the overall image. (calibration removes that yellow cast and makes reds more accurate, as the largest benefits over using the THX mode). My Blu-ray players is also outputting in a colorspace verified as accurate, as well as fitting for my TV. Additonally, I have "perfect" color vision, tested by the Air Force.

I had not seen the theatrical blu-rays. Based on the comparison shots there, and what I watched so far (the fellowship of the ring extended edition. I only watched the Shire stuff and then quit for the night) it looks like we have postives and negatives in both versions, on a chapter by chapter basis.

The shire EE is colder and pushes contrast. It does make the image seem more "focused", but it also crushes blacks and blows out some highlights. most easily seen on faces and light colored stonework. indoors at the Shire, you can especially get a sense of the orange/teal push and several scenes exhibit the extra contrast and highlight issues. Outdoors the color push is more subtle (in the shire) but it is still there and overall, offers less color variety. I found that outside there was a lot of yellow in the image and some of the "warmth" was missing.

If you look at this comparison shot from that link you posted (goblins or whatever in the forest) you can really see the loss of color variety. The moss, tree bark, leaves have all lost a lot of subtle color blends and been pushed more toward orange. There's a sort of mist or fog in the background that used to be definite blue color, different from the leaves and actually brings out some of the branches and tree trunks in the background. That fog is all green now, blending straight into the green of the leaves. The green/teal push is so saturated here, you actually lose the fairly true white of the sky, peaking through the branches in the top right. you also lose the trees in the background there, as they are covered in green saturation. The goblin/orc things were a gray/blue color. Now they are teal, again with a bunch of orange moss at their feet that has lost most of their subtle browns, greens, and reds.
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

There certainly seem to be some chapters that are changed for the better, such as the council of elrond, which now looks pretty accurate, instead of red pushed. But I haven't watched that far yet, so we will see. Look at the shot where sam is wading out to frodo in the small boat: we lost a lot of the true color of the water, here. gone are the natural browns and murky greens. Its all slicked over with grean/blue. We even lost some of the natural highlights in the ripples of the water.

It looks to me like maybe a lot of the original material for this movie just wasn't all that sharp or contrast rich. and they have gone over it with a heavy, modern hand. It looks like the theatrical blu-ray wasn't always color accurate either (in different ways). But the EE is probably worse off with overall less color variety. I'll trade some sharpness and contrast to get back color accuracy any day.

I keep hearing about how amazing these modern tools are for digital color grading (in special features of various movies, etc). But it always ends up with a low color variety and often just gets lazy and does the orange/teal, thing. Production teams need to actually do some real color study, instead of just pulling out the orange/teal pamphlets with hundred dollar bills folded inside.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by GaragePoet

i am so damn sick of this "calibration" argument that i could puke blood...

i'm sure many members here, as have i, have been setting their own TV's color, brightness, contrast, sharpness, tint, etc. settings for many years now. there will always be a level of preference regarding "warm" or "cool" color palettes, but anyone who isn't colorblind knows the difference between green, blue & red...

-

Grayscale, CIE, gamma, etc. are just a few more than can be a BIG difference as to why some are seeing so much teal and black crushing. I have watched these movies on two different ISF calibrated displays (done by one of the top calibrators in the country) and the issues people complain about are NOWHERE to be seen to the degree they are complained about.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Toptube

[Show spoiler]My TV is calibrated and it also has a THX mode that is regarded by reviewers as pretty darn accurate, except for a bit of yellow cast to the overall image. (calibration removes that yellow cast and makes reds more accurate, as the largest benefits over using the THX mode). My Blu-ray players is also outputting in a colorspace verified as accurate, as well as fitting for my TV. Additonally, I have "perfect" color vision, tested by the Air Force.

I had not seen the theatrical blu-rays. Based on the comparison shots there, and what I watched so far (the fellowship of the ring extended edition. I only watched the Shire stuff and then quit for the night) it looks like we have postives and negatives in both versions, on a chapter by chapter basis.

The shire EE is colder and pushes contrast. It does make the image seem more "focused", but it also crushes blacks and blows out some highlights. most easily seen on faces and light colored stonework. indoors at the Shire, you can especially get a sense of the orange/teal push and several scenes exhibit the extra contrast and highlight issues. Outdoors the color push is more subtle (in the shire) but it is still there and overall, offers less color variety. I found that outside there was a lot of yellow in the image and some of the "warmth" was missing.

If you look at this comparison shot from that link you posted (goblins or whatever in the forest) you can really see the loss of color variety. The moss, tree bark, leaves have all lost a lot of subtle color blends and been pushed more toward orange. There's a sort of mist or fog in the background that used to be definite blue color, different from the leaves and actually brings out some of the branches and tree trunks in the background. That fog is all green now, blending straight into the green of the leaves. The green/teal push is so saturated here, you actually lose the fairly true white of the sky, peaking through the branches in the top right. you also lose the trees in the background there, as they are covered in green saturation. The goblin/orc things were a gray/blue color. Now they are teal, again with a bunch of orange moss at their feet that has lost most of their subtle browns, greens, and reds.
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

There certainly seem to be some chapters that are changed for the better, such as the council of elrond, which now looks pretty accurate, instead of red pushed. But I haven't watched that far yet, so we will see. Look at the shot where sam is wading out to frodo in the small boat: we lost a lot of the true color of the water, here. gone are the natural browns and murky greens. Its all slicked over with grean/blue. We even lost some of the natural highlights in the ripples of the water.

It looks to me like maybe a lot of the original material for this movie just wasn't all that sharp or contrast rich. and they have gone over it with a heavy, modern hand. It looks like the theatrical blu-ray wasn't always color accurate either (in different ways). But the EE is probably worse off with overall less color variety. I'll trade some sharpness and contrast to get back color accuracy any day.

I keep hearing about how amazing these modern tools are for digital color grading (in special features of various movies, etc). But it always ends up with a low color variety and often just gets lazy and does the orange/teal, thing. Production teams need to actually do some real color study, instead of just pulling out the orange/teal pamphlets with hundred dollar bills folded inside

.

"Welcome to the party pal!"

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

"Welcome to the party pal!"

Welcome to the party, pal! - YouTube

[42041]

Originally Posted by Toptube

But I haven't watched that far yet, so we will see.

Well maybe you should. I know this is a crazy idea, but a blu-ray might be more enjoyable if you don't stop it after 20 minutes to write essay-length posts about how you didn't like those 20 minutes.

Whatever this transfer's flaws, orange and teal is not one of them.

[BaWd]

Originally Posted by 42041

Well maybe you should. I know this is a crazy idea, but a blu-ray might be more enjoyable if you don't stop it after 20 minutes to write essay-length posts about how you didn't like those 20 minutes.

Whatever this transfer's flaws, orange and teal is not one of them.

I really like those new slips want to double dip but not that price

[Starmartyr]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

-

Grayscale, CIE, gamma, etc. are just a few more than can be a BIG difference as to why some are seeing so much teal and black crushing. I have watched these movies on two different ISF calibrated displays (done by one of the top calibrators in the country) and the issues people complain about are NOWHERE to be seen to the degree they are complained about.

^This!!

I'm sick to death of the color/tint debate and normally never get involved, but seriously - most people do not have their displays professionally calibrated and never will. Understand that calibration brings your display inline with the reference monitors used to do the post-production work on the film. There is a standard set by the professionals for a reason. It is in place so everyone starts from the same point. Where they go from there is up to them. When you have a display professionally calibrated by a certified ISF or THX calibrator - those are the only two types - you will then see as close as possible within the limitations of your display, what the crew saw when working on the film. Unless you have that, you truly have no grounds to argue what is 'right or wrong' about the color/tint/contrast/crush, etc!

And either way - it is about artistic intent, not what you 'feel' is right. It's not a window, and it's not supposed to be - it's a film.

[RandyK]

So I git WB to send me the codes for the digital copies but they were in SD. I thought that these movies downloaded in HD now?

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by atexp80

Well there's this shot:



That shows a significant portion of detail on the cave now gone due to crushed blacks.

The top is the theatrical cut... I made that image and I should know.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by AreaUnderTheCurve

The top is the theatrical cut... I made that image and I should know.

I thought the extended version was colorized. In your comparison the top image (you said it's the theatrical cut) looks green. The bottom looks more natural to me.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by nycomet

I thought the extended version was colorized. In your comparison the top image (you said it's the theatrical cut) looks green. The bottom looks more natural to me.

There were many instances of the EE BD where the greenish color from the theatrical was taken out.

See this post: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...41#post6113341

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Toptube

My TV is calibrated and it also has a THX mode that is regarded by reviewers as pretty darn accurate, except for a bit of yellow cast to the overall image. (calibration removes that yellow cast and makes reds more accurate, as the largest benefits over using the THX mode). My Blu-ray players is also outputting in a colorspace verified as accurate, as well as fitting for my TV. Additonally, I have "perfect" color vision, tested by the Air Force.

I had not seen the theatrical blu-rays. Based on the comparison shots there, and what I watched so far (the fellowship of the ring extended edition. I only watched the Shire stuff and then quit for the night) it looks like we have postives and negatives in both versions, on a chapter by chapter basis.

The shire EE is colder and pushes contrast. It does make the image seem more "focused", but it also crushes blacks and blows out some highlights. most easily seen on faces and light colored stonework. indoors at the Shire, you can especially get a sense of the orange/teal push and several scenes exhibit the extra contrast and highlight issues. Outdoors the color push is more subtle (in the shire) but it is still there and overall, offers less color variety. I found that outside there was a lot of yellow in the image and some of the "warmth" was missing.

If you look at this comparison shot from that link you posted (goblins or whatever in the forest) you can really see the loss of color variety. The moss, tree bark, leaves have all lost a lot of subtle color blends and been pushed more toward orange. There's a sort of mist or fog in the background that used to be definite blue color, different from the leaves and actually brings out some of the branches and tree trunks in the background. That fog is all green now, blending straight into the green of the leaves. The green/teal push is so saturated here, you actually lose the fairly true white of the sky, peaking through the branches in the top right. you also lose the trees in the background there, as they are covered in green saturation. The goblin/orc things were a gray/blue color. Now they are teal, again with a bunch of orange moss at their feet that has lost most of their subtle browns, greens, and reds.
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

There certainly seem to be some chapters that are changed for the better, such as the council of elrond, which now looks pretty accurate, instead of red pushed. But I haven't watched that far yet, so we will see. Look at the shot where sam is wading out to frodo in the small boat: we lost a lot of the true color of the water, here. gone are the natural browns and murky greens. Its all slicked over with grean/blue. We even lost some of the natural highlights in the ripples of the water.

It looks to me like maybe a lot of the original material for this movie just wasn't all that sharp or contrast rich. and they have gone over it with a heavy, modern hand. It looks like the theatrical blu-ray wasn't always color accurate either (in different ways). But the EE is probably worse off with overall less color variety. I'll trade some sharpness and contrast to get back color accuracy any day.

I keep hearing about how amazing these modern tools are for digital color grading (in special features of various movies, etc). But it always ends up with a low color variety and often just gets lazy and does the orange/teal, thing. Production teams need to actually do some real color study, instead of just pulling out the orange/teal pamphlets with hundred dollar bills folded inside.

That would be a valid argument, if the WHIOLE film looked orange/teal. But it doesn't. As posted above, these clearly show many scenes in the EE that DON"T have the teal color the theatrical originally had.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...41#post6113341

So the theory that someone just tweaked the wrong knob overall is disproven, because the movie was obviously re-color timed scene by scene.

[42041]

Originally Posted by retablo

So the theory that someone just tweaked the wrong knob overall is disproven, because the movie was obviously re-color timed scene by scene.

There is also the question of whether the old video transfer accurately conveys the theatrical color and isn't "re-color timed" to begin with. I haven't had an opportunity to compare it to an original 35mm print but it certainly comes from an era in home video mastering when theatrical color accuracy was in desperately short supply and the color/contrast/brightness was regularly modified to make movies look "better" on television (or at least I assume that's the reason).