The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by R3P0

If I remember correctly I think the 2nd movie is going to be a lot of the Appendices from the LOTR, with a mixture of some minor hobbit stuff that may or may not have been left out, and the last book Tolkiens son finished.

i wouldn't mind seeing events from The Hobbit up to where

[Show spoiler]smaug is killed and the dwarves take back the mountain

.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by blakeyamc

I meant the actual photography, should've been darker. Yes the scene you describe would've been a fantastic addition. I would've loved to have seen that. The scene was just too bright. It's the same problem I had with the Path's of the dead (not the only one) and Shelob's lair. Not dark enough. I wanted to feel blind, hopeless and scared.

Yes, I agree with you 100% on the darkness issue, and it gets back to Tolkien's use of light and darkness almost as "characters" that we were discussing in post 412 (?). "Riddles in the Dark" should have been the key psychological part of this movie, where we take a look to see what is happening in Bilbo's mind when he is placed in complete opposition to his comfortable life in the Shire. As you state, he is blind, hopeless, scared, and absolutely alone. When I read the story, I sense that Tolkien is trying to put us in his place, trying to get us to imagine what we would do, or - as everyone has been there at some time - to recall that feeling of isolation we have had in our most desperate moments. Instead, in the movie,

[Show spoiler] the rancor, falling, crashing, and screaming continues until Bilbo falls with the orc right to feet of Gollum, and the introspection never occurs.

A huge wasted opportunity for Jackson to put some substance into the film.

Originally Posted by R3P0

I haven't read the hobbit so i am not familiar with that scene, Ill be honest with you the major step in Bilbos character I saw as someone who was opened to this world through the movie was

[Show spoiler]Bilbo saving Thorin.

To me thats where he found his courage and perhaps the scene you are describing was left out intentionally due to it taking away from the scene I am describing. I remember Jacksons notes on LOTR where he explained that when they wrote and scripted everything out and dropped it on film, sometimes certain scenes just didnt transcend well into film so they were omitted. Perhaps this is the case here.

Bilbo eventually does

[Show spoiler] save the dwarves from the spiders in the next film, as he also saves Thorin from the Elvenking (where he becomes the "real" leader of the expedition) during his evolution in character. My guess is that Jackson prematurely added the Thorin rescue part so he would have something memorable to put in the first film before it ended.

[Dead By Shaun]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

"Here, by way of making it up to you, a little bit of a hint. The music of Azog has caused something of a stir this weekend. Why does his last scene in the film include music we've previously associated with Mordor? I can't fully answer that question, but I can lead you a bit: Azog's primary theme is a descending pair of thirds (G-Eb-F-D) with a chromatic snap at the end (Eb-D-Db). Musically, Azog has a connection to Mordor's musical world from his first appearance on. His final scene is very much in line with this approach. Why this consistent connection? We shall see ..."

He doesn't answer the question, only implies it will be explained in the next two films, which suggests Azog is working for Sauron.

Exactly, because he's been explicitly told by the studio not to reveal plot details for the next two films, so he can only merely hint at it instead. The bottom line is the reason that particular musical cue was used was to

[Show spoiler]establish a connection between Azog and Sauron, which will be further explored in the next two films.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by R3P0

If I remember correctly I think the 2nd movie is going to be a lot of the Appendices from the LOTR, with a mixture of some minor hobbit stuff that may or may not have been left out, and the last book Tolkiens son finished.

Remember they still has to get through mirkwood with all the adventures that entails-especially with regard on pacing of the first movie.Wonder where the second movie will cut off?After

[Show spoiler]laketown on their way up to lonely montain

...

BTW: Do most here feel the need to put spoilers on things happening in the book still?

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Remember they still has to get through mirkwood with all the adventures that entails-especially with regard on pacing of the first movie.Wonder where the second movie will cut off?After

[Show spoiler]laketown on their way up to lonely montain

...

BTW: Do most here feel the need to put spoilers on things happening in the book still?

well.....the 2nd movie is called "The Desolation of Smaug".....so i'd imagine

[Show spoiler]we'll see the dwarves back in the mountain

before the end of the movie.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

BTW: Do most here feel the need to put spoilers on things happening in the book still?

Just to be safe...

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

well.....the 2nd movie is called "The Desolation of Smaug".....so i'd imagine

[Show spoiler]we'll see the dwarves back in the mountain

before the end of the movie.

That's very likely if it's called that Thanks

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

That's very likely if it's called that Thanks

i'm trying to think of a logical place they could cut the 2nd movie off though......and i'm not finding one.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

i'm trying to think of a logical place they could cut the 2nd movie off though......and i'm not finding one.

Maybe they should call the second movie

[Show spoiler] 'On the doorstep'

Still think that

[Show spoiler] leaving Laketown

would be a good place to end...

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

i'm trying to think of a logical place they could cut the 2nd movie off though......and i'm not finding one.

I predict a huge ending with the

[Show spoiler]Battle of Dol Guldur

and

[Show spoiler]Smaug's attack on Laketown

happening simultaneously (at least on screen, cutting between the two) with

[Show spoiler]Smaug being killed by Bard.

Of course that might make audiences wonder why they are coming back for a third film but it's easy enough to end with hints of

[Show spoiler]the elves and men planning to take the mountain (believing the dwarves dead)

and

[Show spoiler]the goblins/orcs rallying to attack

. Plus you have

[Show spoiler]the dwarves in Erebor with Thorin slowly going mad and hunting for the Arkenstone which we have seen Bilbo take

. So there's still plenty to leave as unresolved and with promises of things to come.

The only other solution would be to save

[Show spoiler]Smaug's death

until the openong of the third film but it's definitely more of a climax than a beginning.

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Maybe they should call the second movie

[Show spoiler] 'On the doorstep'

Still think that

[Show spoiler] leaving Laketown

would be a good place to end...

[Show spoiler]or the people of laketown rising up and marching towards the lonely mt after smaug is killed

[Show spoiler]and for some reason i seem to remember being disappointed by how easily and quickly smaug was taken down by Bard....is that his name?? .....i wonder if PJ is gonna dress it up in the movie at all??

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Maybe they should call the second movie

[Show spoiler] 'On the doorstep'

Still think that

[Show spoiler] leaving Laketown

would be a good place to end...

I disagree as I can't see audiences bieng too happy to wait another year to see Smaug, not after

[Show spoiler]being teased with him at the end of this film

and him being the title character.

I think it's as good as certain that we'll at least get to

[Show spoiler]Bilbo in the Lonely Mountain (especially as the first official still is of him in the piles of gold)

, the only question to me is whether or not the film ends before or after

[Show spoiler]Smaug attacks Laketown

.

[Grand Bob]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

Still think that

[Show spoiler] leaving Laketown

would be a good place to end...

That also seems like the logical place to end the second film, IMO.

[Show spoiler] But if the dragon sequence happens in the film, as BluBenny indicates is in the title, a lot of time is going to be spent on that mountain in the third film! An unknown factor is how much time will be devoted to the Appendices material, but thus far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that the Appendices figure much into the story at all.

[jbig31]

Leaving for my second viewing here in a few...I think I'm going to step out on a limb here and see it in 3D 24fps this time (saw it in 2D 24fps the first time around). Hopefully afterwards I'll be able to give it a fair review later at some point.

[Show spoiler]I'm gonna watch extra hard for Bolg!

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

[Show spoiler]or the people of laketown rising up and marching towards the lonely mt after smaug is killed

[Show spoiler]and for some reason i seem to remember being disappointed by how easily and quickly smaug was taken down by Bard....is that his name?? .....i wonder if PJ is gonna dress it up in the movie at all??

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

I disagree as I can't see audiences bieng too happy to wait another year to see Smaug, not after

[Show spoiler]being teased with him at the end of this film

and him being the title character.

I think it's as good as certain that we'll at least get to

[Show spoiler]Bilbo in the Lonely Mountain (especially as the first official still is of him in the piles of gold)

, the only question to me is whether or not the film ends before or after

[Show spoiler]Smaug attacks Laketown

.

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

That also seems like the logical place to end the second film, IMO.

[Show spoiler] But if the dragon sequence happens in the film, as BluBenny indicates is in the title, a lot of time is going to be spent on that mountain in the third film! An unknown factor is how much time will be devoted to the Appendices material, but thus far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that the Appendices figure much into the story at all.

I'll just put a spoiler over all my reply since much is intertwined with the answer-spoilers that is

[Show spoiler]
Still think it's bad to have a 2 hour battle with the return trip in the movie only.Like Bob says,not too much appendices in the first movie. @Benny:Yes,that's his name,and to me it wasn't just a lucky shot.It destroyed the town,and only with his last arrow did he slay the dragon. @Ackerman:It only refers to the dragons destruction of the surroundings (and chamber) of the mountain...

Oh ,well.We'll see in a years time


On another note,I read here many who found

[Show spoiler]the elves behaviour in not helping the dwarves when the dragon came and the estrangement of elves and dwarves odd,but didn't anyone notice the dwarves alienation of themselves from the elves when they found the Arkenstone,and professed to be the chosen kings by a higher power-and not only of themselves.Nice little refference to real-politik of the day.

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by jbig31

Leaving for my second viewing here in a few...I think I'm going to step out on a limb here and see it in 3D 24fps this time (saw it in 2D 24fps the first time around). Hopefully afterwards I'll be able to give it a fair review later at some point.

[Show spoiler]I'm gonna watch extra hard for Bolg!

I saw it in 3D (dunno what framerate it was),and kind of regretted not seeing it in 2D as the 3D wasn't anything much to write home about in the movie.Like 3D,but it seems to lend itself better to animated stuff it seems...

Enjoy

[Blu-Benny]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

I'll just put a spoiler over all my reply since much is intertwined with the answer-spoilers that is

[Show spoiler]
Still think it's bad to have a 2 hour battle with the return trip in the movie only.Like Bob says,not too much appendices in the first movie. @Benny:Yes,that's his name,and to me it wasn't just a lucky shot.It destroyed the town,and only with his last arrow did he slay the dragon. @Ackerman:It only refers to the dragons destruction of the surroundings (and chamber) of the mountain...

Oh ,well.We'll see in a years time


On another note,I read here many who found

[Show spoiler]the elves behaviour in not helping the dwarves when the dragon came and the estrangement of elves and dwarves,but didn't anyone notice the dwarves alienation of themselves from the elves when they found the Arkenstone,and professed to be the chosen kings by a higher power-and not only of themselves.Nice little refference to real-politik of the day.

I’ll have to read the book again…..or @ least that chapter to see if I’m just not remembering it right.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

@Ackerman:It only refers to the dragons destruction of the surroundings (and chamber) of the mountain...

I get the reference of the title and it's true that ending where you suggest would still fit that title

[Show spoiler](well, they'd have to go a bit further than Laketown as the actual Desolation is the area that Dale stood in - would be odd if the title of the film was of an area that we don't get to in that film)

. But I think it's more likely that, as someone said earlier, the title is going to be used as a double-meaning. Besides, to general audiences, putting Smaug in the title is implicitely promising that Smaug will be in the film (whether that assumption can be blamed on ignorance or bad marketing is a different matter).

Plus, as I say, this is the first still from Dos:

[Show spoiler]

Which gives a good indicator.

I agree that this will leave a full-to-the-brim second part and a wonder on how it will affect the third part's pacing (perhaps they will hold over

[Show spoiler]Smaug's attack

until the third and just end DoS with

[Show spoiler]the Dwarves in the mountain after Smaug has flown off to places unknown to the audience

).

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Mahatma

On another note,I read here many who found

[Show spoiler]the elves behaviour in not helping the dwarves when the dragon came and the estrangement of elves and dwarves odd,but didn't anyone notice the dwarves alienation of themselves from the elves when they found the Arkenstone,and professed to be the chosen kings by a higher power-and not only of themselves.Nice little refference to real-politik of the day.

I noticed that. I thought Lee Pace did fantastically in a short role. His facial reactions showed so much in both of his scenes. I can't wait until we see the character in full.

[kong73]

I heard it was slow and dragged in the middle but I was not bored once and when I got home and thought about it some more I found myself liking it even more. Oh, and as for the new HFR.... I loved it! didn't bother me at all, Its not for everyone but it really drew me into the film. I very interested in what they do next with this format.