The Hobbit Trilogy 3D Blu-ray (2012-2014) [Region Free]

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Got to see The Hobbit today at a Cinemark HFR RealD 3D showing. I had no physical issues with the HFR or 3D. I watch 3D content and/or play 3D PS3 games multiple times per week.

It took me about 20 minutes to get used to the look of 48fps. At first, it was a little distracting and gave the impression that the video was playing faster than it should. I also got the feeling that I was looking at actors on a stage and CGI video game cutscenes rather than movie characters and Middle-Earth. However, that feeling went away as I settled into the story and just enjoyed the adventure, and the benefits were well worth the initial awkwardness.

I really appreciated the clarity and solidity that 48fps added to the 3D. There is much less motion blur when objects move, and that helps them look more real. Like Rainhurt mentioned, strobing was much improved. Many scenes seemed to be designed to take advantage of 48fps--the plate-tossing dishwashing scene being an obvious example to impress the viewer early on. I also liked the extra smoothness that HFR gave the fly-in camera shots.

After seeing The Hobbit though, I really hope James Cameron goes with 60fps for Avatar 2. 48fps is nice, but to get the full intended effect of life-like motion, HFR needs to be pushed more. Hopefully, on-set data storage and transfer for the filmmakers, as well as home theater discs will be able to better accommodate HFR over the next couple of years.

Nice review Orange.

As to your observation that “it was a little distracting and gave the impression that the video was playing faster than it should” I believe the discrepancy among reviewers as to some seeing The Hobbit as “sped up” (such as when characters walk fast or run) and other reviewers here on Blu-ray.com seeing normal motion during their respective Hobbit HFR viewings is firstly, due to the theatrical projector systems utilized in the various venues at which they saw their Hobbit HFR exhibitions.

People in my immediate family and visiting relatives for the Holidays have now viewed The Hobbit HFR at two different venues. The first was digital ‘IMAX’, e.g. dual projectors with static polarizers. The motion described by all observers was completely natural from the get-go with no evidence of *speed up*.

The second local viewing was at a Multiplex which employed a single lens double flash projector (Barco DLP), and from the very beginning observers noticed that the motion appeared sped up…then things settled down, and later on in the movie a few motions appeared to play faster than they should.

So, how well each type of projector system deals with The Hobbit seems to be a determining factor in the observation as to whether or not things appear ‘sped up’ or not, to theater patrons. The only question in my mind at this point is whether in this case 48fps proper or post processed 48fps at 270 degree shutter ( see the P.S. here ….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...on#post6894679

is a contributing factor to some projector systems performing better than others.

P.S.
For your eyes (and probably interest) only…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ution-for-2013

[Zivouhr]

So can anyone imagine blu ray 3D discs having a 2 hour 54 minute movie with a constant 48 frames per second by the first release in 2013, as in the HFR Hobbit 3D theatrical presentation?

Chances are we are only going to get the 24 fps as already noted, which I won't mind.

I'm guessing it'll be sadly split up onto two discs though for the 3D version.

[Scorpion Soldier]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

I'm guessing it'll be sadly split up onto two discs though for the 3D version.

Not necesarily, Avatar has about the same runtime and has the entire feature on one disc. If the extended version eventually does get a 3D release, It'll likely be split up.

[brian9229]

I personally would prefer the 3d version to be on 2 discs while maintaining A/V quality. Cramming the whole movie in 3d, plus the audio, on to one disc would most likely mean a severe cut in A/V quality.

[mseeley]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

So can anyone imagine blu ray 3D discs having a 2 hour 54 minute movie with a constant 48 frames per second by the first release in 2013, as in the HFR Hobbit 3D theatrical presentation?

Chances are we are only going to get the 24 fps as already noted, which I won't mind.

I'm guessing it'll be sadly split up onto two discs though for the 3D version.

I wold think its totally possible and I'm dying to know if the HFR version Weill be included. After all, aren't sporting events in 3d recorded at 60 FPS?

[Mikeatron85]

I didn't think they could do 48fps on Blu-ray 3D? I thought the additional frames that Blu-ray 3D allows were taken up with the sequential left and right eye images?

I'm sure I remember reading on here that they have 2 options they could use for presenting The Hobbit in 48fps on a home video format:

a) 48fps 2D in full 1080p HD

or

b) 48fps 3D in half side-by-side (or over-under) format (resulting in a lower resolution picture - though having said that, if the user has a passive 3D setup, it shouldn't be any different to any other 3D content they are viewing in terms of resolution)

Personally, I hope they go with both - as I can't imagine watching this any other way after having seen the 48fps presentation.

EDIT:

Just checked out the official Blu-ray and Blu-ray 3D specs. Those frame rates are allowed provided that they are in 720p:

Frame rates/sizes

The Blu-ray 3D specification defines a more limited number of frame size and frame rate combinations than standard Blu-ray. The allowable frame size/rates for BD3D are as follows:

* 1920×1080 @ 23.976 fps progressive
* 1280×720 @ 59.94 fps progressive
* 1280×720 @ 50 fps progressive

[kenny3001]

Originally Posted by Mikeatron85

I didn't think they could do 48fps on Blu-ray 3D? I thought the additional frames that Blu-ray 3D allows were taken up with the sequential left and right eye images?

I'm sure I remember reading on here that they have 2 options they could use for presenting The Hobbit in 48fps on a home video format:

a) 48fps 2D in full 1080p HD

or

b) 48fps 3D in half side-by-side (or over-under) format (resulting in a lower resolution picture - though having said that, if the user has a passive 3D setup, it shouldn't be any different to any other 3D content they are viewing in terms of resolution)

Personally, I hope they go with both - as I can't imagine watching this any other way after having seen the 48fps presentation.

EDIT:

Just checked out the official Blu-ray and Blu-ray 3D specs. Those frame rates are allowed provided that they are in 720p:

then 24ps only then

[Jsmith82]

We saw The Hobbit this weekend at Ronnie's 20 in Saint Louis MO, HFR 48fps 3D.

Holy ****.

It was amazing! I loved every second of the film, half the people I know said there was too much walking and blah blah blah but I was never bored with a cut scene nor did I see more than a couple walk scenes between action or more dialog. A fan of the books, I think Jackson did a great job - a round of applause, well done

Now comes the down time and wait for the second to come out...............

As for the reviews that the film felt "fake", or too real - that it was so clear you felt on set rather than watching the movie, or that the 3D and 48fps took away from the story because you were in too much awe over the effects and surroundings. In my opinion these people are 100% wrong, and I hope to see more film makers follow in Jackson's footsteps. It was beautiful to see that crystal clear picture, and no blur whatsoever - like watching the largest LED super refresh screen ever. Not only did the cleanliness and depth of the 48fps dual reds hold my ADD driven brain to full attention, I can not remember the last time I was so immersed in a film. I didn't pee, I didn't eat popcorn. I took 1 sip off of my 5 dollar bottle of water and that was that, I was all in.

The first time in a long time I feel that my 27 dollars (admission for my wife and I) was justified and returned on screen.

PS - true story, call me snobby (my friends did lol), but we brought our lightweight passive LG Cinema glasses from home and boy did that make the experience more comfortable. Those RealD Buddy Holly glasses the theater's hand out don't sit well on my nose and I've always found them very uncomfortable. The LG's worked fine, and ahhhhh - so comfy. Anyone else ever do this?

[Zivouhr]

Originally Posted by Scorpion Soldier

Not necesarily, Avatar has about the same runtime and has the entire feature on one disc. If the extended version eventually does get a 3D release, It'll likely be split up.

Good point. I own Avatar 3D and forgot it was well over 2 hours, yet looks awesome for HD and 3D on one disc.

Originally Posted by mseeley

I wold think its totally possible and I'm dying to know if the HFR version Weill be included. After all, aren't sporting events in 3d recorded at 60 FPS?

Originally Posted by brian9229

I personally would prefer the 3d version to be on 2 discs while maintaining A/V quality. Cramming the whole movie in 3d, plus the audio, on to one disc would most likely mean a severe cut in A/V quality.

I think this is certain for any possible extended version, or HFR 3D. We'll see what happens with the theatrical one.

Originally Posted by Mikeatron85

b) 48fps 3D in half side-by-side (or over-under) format (resulting in a lower resolution picture - though having said that, if the user has a passive 3D setup, it shouldn't be any different to any other 3D content they are viewing in terms of resolution)

Just checked out the official Blu-ray and Blu-ray 3D specs. Those frame rates are allowed provided that they are in 720p:

For side by side, even on a passive 3DTV, the side by side resolution would be reduced by half probably, since each side of the screen contains a different image, even though it still looks good combined. Top to Bottom has no reduction I've heard.
Normally, MVC encoded 3D looks great on a passive 3DTV, the only limitation being the ever slight aliasing caused by the 3D passive glasses crystals when looking at any TV set, 2D or 3D, which tends to highlight pixels better, when up close.

Originally Posted by Jsmith82

We saw The Hobbit this weekend at Ronnie's 20 in Saint Louis MO, HFR 48fps 3D.

Holy ****.

It was amazing!

Those RealD Buddy Holly glasses the theater's hand out don't sit well on my nose and I've always found them very uncomfortable. The LG's worked fine, and ahhhhh - so comfy. Anyone else ever do this?

Glad you enjoyed the 3D HFR. It looked great, agreed. Great movie, also.

The real D ones leave a non-painful imprint on the bridge of the nose, but nothing that would create a headache thankfully. I have yet to try the pair that were included with my passive 3DTV set. Thanks for the suggestion.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Nice review Orange.

As to your observation that “it was a little distracting and gave the impression that the video was playing faster than it should” I believe the discrepancy among reviewers as to some seeing The Hobbit as “sped up” (such as when characters walk fast or run) and other reviewers here on Blu-ray.com seeing normal motion during their respective Hobbit HFR viewings is firstly, due to the theatrical projector systems utilized in the various venues at which they saw their Hobbit HFR exhibitions.

People in my immediate family and visiting relatives for the Holidays have now viewed The Hobbit HFR at two different venues. The first was digital ‘IMAX’, e.g. dual projectors with static polarizers. The motion described by all observers was completely natural from the get-go with no evidence of *speed up*.

The second local viewing was at a Multiplex which employed a single lens double flash projector (Barco DLP), and from the very beginning observers noticed that the motion appeared sped up…then things settled down, and later on in the movie a few motions appeared to play faster than they should.

So, how well each type of projector system deals with The Hobbit seems to be a determining factor in the observation as to whether or not things appear ‘sped up’ or not, to theater patrons. The only question in my mind at this point is whether in this case 48fps proper or post processed 48fps at 270 degree shutter ( see the P.S. here ….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...on#post6894679

is a contributing factor to some projector systems performing better than others.

Thanks, Penton. I had almost the same experience as your family at their second viewing. It seemed like Bilbo was moving abnormally fast very early on in the Shire. Then things settled down and looked more normal for the rest of the movie. My mom noticed it as well. That "sped up" motion could certainly be a result of the projector's capability. I might go to a Digital IMAX showing next weekend to compare.

P.S.
For your eyes (and probably interest) only…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ution-for-2013

Nice to see some interest in the Vols! Are you a UT fan or just of football in general?

I'm glad to have the new coaching staff. From a fan's perspective, those resolutions are dead on. The "Cincinnati-Like Defensive Turnaround" is especially needed.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

...Nice to see some interest in the Vols! Are you a UT fan or just of football in general?

I'm glad to have the new coaching staff. From a fan's perspective, those resolutions are dead on. The "Cincinnati-Like Defensive Turnaround" is especially needed.

I’m an avid football fan in general and, in addition, one of my nephews attends The University of Tennessee, Knoxville.

Going back, I reread your Hobbit review and forgot to comment on something else you noted of significance, one moment please. It has to do with Jim Cameron’s upcoming Avatar II.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Thanks, Penton. I had almost the same experience as your family at their second viewing. It seemed like Bilbo was moving abnormally fast very early on in the Shire. Then things settled down and looked more normal for the rest of the movie. My mom noticed it as well. That "sped up" motion could certainly be a result of the projector's capability. I might go to a Digital IMAX showing next weekend to compare....

I do know it wasn’t dual projector IMAX and other than that, I don’t know what particular projector system they used but, worst was the (non-Hobbit) HFR 3D footage which they showed at SIGGRAPH 2012, of which the ‘sped up’ motion was obvious to all in attendance, as well as other much more subtle temporal artifacts (such as actors slightly changing in volume when walking across the screen) being present during the exhibited footage.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

Thanks, Penton.

That "sped up" motion could certainly be a result of the projector's capability....

I have no doubts that some particular projector systems accentuate the problem. Motion perception differences are not due to cognitive or neuro-opthalmic variances amongst normal individuals.

[BleedOrange11]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have no doubts that some particular projector systems accentuate the problem. Motion perception differences are not due to cognitive or neuro-opthalmic variances amongst normal individuals.

That makes the much more sense than the problem being inherent to 48fps. Hopefully the projector manufacturers can make some improvements by the time the next HFR film is out.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by BleedOrange11

That makes the much more sense than the problem being inherent to 48fps. Hopefully the projector manufacturers can make some improvements by the time the next HFR film is out.

Well they'll have a year, since Hobbit Pt II is the only thing on the schedule.

fitprod

[eriaur]

Is it possible with variable frame rates? Movies shot in vfr, and shown in vfr. Some scenes in 24fps and others in 48fps ?

http://www.hfrmovies.com/2012/11/21/...-hfr-projects/
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...e-frame-360410
http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/08/t...e-rate-cinema/

"films don't have to be married to a given frame rate, given the costs and complexities involved. If a scene features a locked-down camera and not much motion in the frame, it's not going to benefit from an increased frame rate, and the cost savings of shooting and post-producing much of a film at 24fps rather than 48 or 60 fps could be significant."

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by eriaur

Is it possible with variable frame rates? Movies shot in vfr, and shown in vfr. Some scenes in 24fps and others in 48fps ?...

Good question….and quite complex to solve in terms of exhibition.

What I mean is that, currently, with the recent publicized 3D HFR upgrades which were installed, many digital theatrical projector systems are going to hiccup in regards to trying to seamlessly project a VFR (variable frame rate) motion picture….’hiccups’ as long as 5 – 10 sec., in some instances.

Two reasons…

#1. Projection flash rates are compelled to change with different frame rates (given sequential 3D and HFR) and mechanisms to support this need, instantaneously, during the play back of a VFR movie are not included in many present day installations.

#2 The projector systems can’t cope successfully in managing all possible frame rate changes through configuration of the system’s show playlist.

The display/exhibition part of bringing VFR motion pictures to the theater-going public will take some take time for the engineers to figure and work out. It’s not as easy as flipping a switch on a camera during the shoot.