The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Review Thread (Spoilers)

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

I object to making light of the mentally handicapped, and that doesn't sit right with you? Is someone trying awfully hard to take offense? Jeez!

Ok, yeah, Ori is a gag on Dopey from The Seven Dwarves, I get that. But he's not comically silly and foolish, they go way over that line, he is seriously mentally handicapped, and it's not funny. At best he comes off like Harry from '3rd Rock from the Sun', literally a baby in an adult body... maybe that's the gag, that a baby dwarf looks "adult" by human standards, I dunno. At any rate, it is most definitely not in the source material, and that is a good piece of why it is so annoying to me. (To the previous commenter who said the book presents him as the youngest, I'm pretty sure that is incorrect, I think Kili is the youngest.)

Sorry if you don't see it the way I do, from my point of view it's obtuse not to pick up on something so obvious. It's my opinion, not an attempt to force a consensus. We are not required to agree. I'm sorry that so many people on the internet can't understand that. Don't agree if you don't want do, but spare me the puffed-up chest, I didn't do anything to warrant it.

Sorry, but Ori is not intended to be mentally handicapped. If you see it that way, that's all on you. Not the director and writers.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Sorry, but Ori is not intended to be mentally handicapped. If you see it that way, that's all on you. Not the director and writers.

Do you know that, or are you just asserting a factpinion?

Sam is young and simple. Pippin is young and foolish. Fili and Kili are young and naive. Ori is Simple Jack, and it's totally inappropriate. If you missed it then it's "all on you". If he's not intentionally 'special', then he's unintentionally 'special', and that's almost worse. If you're telling me his mental state is even remotely in the same ballpark as, say, a Pippin or a Sam or a Kili, then I say you're putting me on. I say they're going for laughs by poking fun at Ori's intellect, and they put Ori's intellect way beyond where it's funny to laugh at.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Yes, I'm obviously wrong. That's why so many in this forum agree with your analysis.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Aragorn84

Yes, I'm obviously wrong. That's why so many in this forum agree with your analysis.

Now you're arguing for opinions being right or wrong. Awesome. Two years away, and absolutely nothing and nobody has changed.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Edit: My phrasing has been impolite. I apologize. Of course, everyone's entitled to an opinion. This one just seems out of left field to me.

You're saying that it's completely obvious that Ori is mentally handicapped. It's just that you seem to be the only one on this board (or really anywhere, in my experience) who seems to feel this way.

Here's the bio for Ori (released by the studio):

"Younger brother to Nori and Dori, Ori is a talented artist, and can often be found drawing and writing in his journal. It is Ori who chronicles much of the journey through The Wild to the shores of the Long Lake and the slopes of The Lonely Mountain. Polite and well-bred, he is used to being bossed around by his older brother Dori and is usually biddable, although occasionally he can surprise his fellow companions with his courage and determination. Ori is said to be the youngest in the company."

He's meant to be young, polite, and naive. Not a word about being mentally impaired. Nothing I've read in any official materials, articles, or seen in interviews even hints in the slightest bit that he's supposed to be as you say.

[snakemaster7]

^^^
+1, to even think that the director or anybody intended Ori to be mentally handicapped is absurd and downright rude if you ask me. Nothing like that went through my mind watching it, either. If that's the way someone wants to see it though, then so be it. Let it be a booger in his brain, not mine!

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

I object to making light of the mentally handicapped, and that doesn't sit right with you? Is someone trying awfully hard to take offense? Jeez!

Ok, yeah, Ori is a gag on Dopey from The Seven Dwarves, I get that. But he's not comically silly and foolish, they go way over that line, he is seriously mentally handicapped, and it's not funny. At best he comes off like Harry from '3rd Rock from the Sun', literally a baby in an adult body... maybe that's the gag, that a baby dwarf looks "adult" by human standards, I dunno. At any rate, it is most definitely not in the source material, and that is a good piece of why it is so annoying to me. (To the previous commenter who said the book presents him as the youngest, I'm pretty sure that is incorrect, I think Kili is the youngest.)

Sorry if you don't see it the way I do, from my point of view it's obtuse not to pick up on something so obvious. It's my opinion, not an attempt to force a consensus. We are not required to agree. I'm sorry that so many people on the internet can't understand that. Don't agree if you don't want do, but spare me the puffed-up chest, I didn't do anything to warrant it.

I didn't notice anything that indicated that Ori was mentally handicapped during the film.

Also, by stating that "it's obtuse not to pick up on something so obvious", you are saying that those who don't share your point of view are slow-witted, which is kind of ironic considering that's what you are complaining that they did to Ori.

Obtuse synonyms: dull - blunt - dense - slow-witted

[Show spoiler]

[Buddy Ackerman]

He's not mentally handicapped at all. He's young, foolish and stupid in a very recognisable way. To be honest I think this sort of things always speak louder about the person reading into the film and their preconcieved notions than it does the filmmakers'.

[toddly6666]

The dude thinks Ori is retarded - that's his interpretation. So what and who cares? There are people that think Sam/Frodo, Pippin/Merry, and Legolas/Gimli are implied to be gay couples too. Who cares? Anything can be interpreted. If someone states an interpretation as "obvious or fact", what's the point of arguing with that person who doesnt know the difference between a theory and fact?

[beadelf]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

The dude thinks Ori is retarded - that's his interpretation. So what and who cares? There are people that think Sam/Frodo, Pippin/Merry, and Legolas/Gimli are implied to be gay couples too. Who cares? Anything can be interepreted. If someone states an interpretation as "obvious or fact", what's the point of arguing with that person who doesnt know the difference between a theory and fact?

+1

exactly

[toddly6666]

Looking retarded and being retarded are two different things. All the dwarves look pretty retarded. Ori looks more like a typical redneck if anything, but when it comes to the character of Ori, there is nothing retarded about him. Here's Ori's backstory per Tolkien wiki:

- he survives a battle
- he starts a colony
- Ori dies heroically fighting the orcs. Ori recalls his last moments in The Book of Mazarbul, which Gandalf reads from when the Fellowship passes by Balin's tomb.
- Ori is a talented artist, and can often be found drawing and writing in his journal. It is Ori who chronicles much of the journey through The Wild to the shores of the Long Lake and the slopes of The Lonely Mountain. Polite and well-bred, he is used to being bossed around by his older brother Dori and is usually biddable, although occasionally he can surprise his fellow companions with his courage and determination. Ori is said to be the youngest in the company."

There's nothing retarded about Ori in his actions and character except for the way he looks. If Ori is mentally handicapped, then he is the most super-skilled mentally-handicapped role model since Forrest Gump and Temple Grandin. Here's actor Adam Brown who is not retarded, but yes, he has a unique look:




And Golum is tasteless because it makes fun of people suffering from anorexia.

[Ernest Rister]

If anyone is portrayed with mental challenges in The Hobbit - it's Radagast, not Ori. Walking around with dried bird shit on your face isn't usually a sign of mental well-being.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

If anyone is portrayed with mental challenges in The Hobbit - it's Radagast, not Ori. Walking around with dried bird shit on your face isn't usually a sign of mental well-being.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

.

Remember guys...

Jackson said that 'Barrels out of Bond' takes place fairly early in the 2nd film. Which unfortunately seems to suggest that the Mirkwood segment will be pretty short.

.

Which is curious, given that we're actually going to see Beorn. If anything was going to be cut from The Hobbit, my money was on the Were-Bear.

[Buddy Ackerman]

I believe Jackson tagged the Barrels at about the hour mark, which still seems a bit early for me considering we need to get through Beorn, Mirkwood and the Elves by then. I guess it's doable, I was just hoping to have a good deal of Beorn. it's one of my favourite passages in the book. I was also hoping for plenty of Thranduil, the glimpse we got of him in the first film was fantastic (o

[Show spoiler]f course both will be back later for Battle of the Five Armies

).

That would leave

[Show spoiler]perhaps the second hour for arriving in Laketown and building up that culture / trekking to the Lonely Mountain mixed with building up the Dol Guldur investigations and second White Council. The final third would be the climb up the Lonely Mountain, Bilbo riddling with Smaug and his flight from the Mountain/the dwarves entering Erebor combined with the assualt on Dol Guldur for the action finale.

[threefiftyrocket]

Just actually sat down last night to watch all of the Hobbit Production Diaries... apparently I had not watched the last 3!!! Billy Connolly plays Dain? How was I not aware of this??? That dude is BADASS! SCORE!

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

That's because The Hobbit was a children's book, it was only turned into the grandiose story when the publisher wanted Tolkien to write a sequel... at which point he said oh yeah, how bout this... BAM Lord of the Rings... or something to that effect

I see, good to know but still doesn't sway my thoughts on the movie...

[threefiftyrocket]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

I see, good to know but still doesn't sway my thoughts on the movie...

Right on... just wanted to give a little insight to why the tone was a little different in spots...

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by threefiftyrocket

Right on... just wanted to give a little insight to why the tone was a little different in spots...

The big problem being that shift in tone comes out of nowhere in the film, like the dwarf tossing jokes in FOTR and The Two Towers. Many parts of The Hobbit are as emotionally piercing and serious as anything in LOTR, and the tone is shattered when the film goes slap-happy goofy. The Hobbit - to a small extent - reminds me of Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, Pocahontas, and Mulan - misjudging how to use comedy to entertain the audience. Low comedy didn't work in the LOTR films, and it's amplified here, and I don't buy the excuse that The Hobbit was a children's book. It's Jackson, Boyens and Walsh making wrong choices.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

I don't feel it comes out of nowhere at all. It's a wonderful balance in the film, and I'm glad there's lots of comedy. Spot on for the story.