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Old 03-10-2008, 07:01 AM   #1721
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post
Sorry to disappoint, but not a clue.
One thing that David Lean brings so well to the motion picture was that in the movie, as in real life, “Lawrence” was not just a real *warrior* but a real *thinker*. This is the kind of character development I personally believe is seldom seen in most popular movies of today.

Here is a copy and paste from an author who is arguably one of the most reputable T.E. Lawrence historians. The historian’s name and the actual website from which I snatched this (a couple years back) escapes me for now as I just kept some of his insights on my word processor for when I received queries from people working on the Blu-ray title that took a personal interest in the main character and wanted some background. Here is an excerpt........................

“T. E. Lawrence became famous after the First World War because of the remarkable role he had played while serving as a British liaison officer during the Arab Revolt of 1916-18. When the war ended, an American journalist, Lowell Thomas, toured Britain and the Empire giving an outstandingly successful slide-show about Lawrence’s achievements. The romantic story of Lawrence's campaigns in Arabia and Allenby's in the Holy Land appealed strongly to a British public sated with horrific accounts of trench warfare on the Western Front. From this beginning grew the legend of 'Lawrence of Arabia'.

Thereafter, the facts of Lawrence's war-adventures were often obscured by myth. Even today, his reputation is a favourite target for popular controversialists. Nevertheless, when the secret British archives of the Middle East campaigns were finally released in the 1960s and '70s, they showed that Lawrence's service with the Arabs had been no less remarkable than the legend.

Lawrence himself had little wish to be remembered as a war hero: he could hardly bear to think about his wartime role. His enduring ambition was to be a writer. He once confessed his hope that, "in the distant future, if the distant future deigns to consider my insignificance, I shall be appraised rather as a man of letters than a man of action.”
-----------------------------------------------------------
Rob, specifically in regards to my question to you, this is what the historian has stated and I quote……………………….

“No-one who knew him well suggested that he was homosexual. Very few of his friends were homosexual. When the accusation was made publicly by Richard Aldington, twenty years after Lawrence's death, not one of his friends or contemporaries in the ranks - the people who knew him well - supported it. As far as I know only two people made this suggestion (in private correspondence) during his lifetime. Neither of them was more than a slight acquaintance, and both had very strong personal reasons to wish to discredit him. They made no secret of their general enmity.

There is independent evidence that in Oxford as a young man Lawrence was attracted to at least one girl, Janet Laurie. In 1910, soon after graduating from university, he left England to join an archaeological excavation in a remote part of Syria where there were no European women. As he spent most of his time there until the outbreak of the 1914-18 war, he had almost no opportunity to mix with the kind of girl that an Englishman of his generation might have thought suitable. Nevertheless, he seems to have had very cordial relationships with English and American women he met in the Middle East and with his Arabic teacher Fareedeh el Akle.

At the beginning of World War One Lawrence was almost certainly sexually inexperienced, as were the great majority of young officers in the British army. The sexual morality of the period was very different from morality today.
Despite many attempts by controversial biographers to claim otherwise, there are no sound reasons to disbelieve his statements in Seven Pillars of Wisdom and elsewhere that during the war, at Deraa in November 1917, he was subjected to flogging and violent male rape. Thereafter he seems to have had a profound horror of sexuality and physical contact with other human beings.
The experience at Deraa left very deep psychological scars which are evident throughout his later writings. In the mid -1920s he developed a flagellation disorder. We have little reliable information about this, but it appears that on a relatively small number of occasions (eleven or so) during the following decade he arranged secretly to have himself beaten in a ritual related to the events at Deraa. He also appears also to have suffered during these years from less extreme forms of masochistic disorder.

A number of controversial biographers, notably Richard Aldington, Desmond Stewart (himself openly homosexual), Lawrence James, and Michael Asher, have written biographies of Lawrence in which they claimed that he was gay. Neither of Lawrence's major scholarly biographers, myself and John E. Mack (a Harvard professor of psychiatry) reached that conclusion. In the T. E. Lawrence Studies website there is very detailed analysis of the case made by Michael Asher (itself largely derived from the books by James and Stewart).

Whatever Lawrence's personal difficulties in this area, he was not homophobic. His personal philosophy, throughout his adult life, was that people should be allowed to lead their own lives. In this and many other matters he was not judgmental. This tolerance has been misinterpreted. Thus, the fact that he does not condemn homosexual practices by others in Seven Pillars of Wisdom has been cited as a basis for assuming that he favoured such practices himself.”
 
Old 03-10-2008, 07:06 AM   #1722
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by kjacobs03 View Post
Do you think he knows whn LotR, Star Wars, and The Matrix will come out?
Every time I see those two titles mentioned together, I think of this clip…….watch at least until the 5:30 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHRGvy3U2WA
 
Old 03-10-2008, 07:07 AM   #1723
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by jknuss01 View Post
Well since 25 is more then 20... technically you were not wrong
Great minds think alike.
That’s exactly what I said.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 12:27 PM   #1724
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If I enjoy a movie, I will often hunt down the book upon which it was based. Books such as the Wizard of Oz, The Haunting of Hill House, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep (Bladerunner) were funs reads. 2001 and its three sequels (2010, 2061, and 3001) were enlightening.

The "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" was a real struggle for me. As mentioned, it was the basis of "Lawrence of Arabia". Not only was it 700 pages, it had a very "thick" style of writing. As a result I read it a bit at a time over many months. If anyone decides to read it be forewarned. The most significant thing I took away from reading the book was that there was enough source material to have made a 40 hour movie. Now when I watch "Lawrence of Arabia", the 4 hours seems short instead of long.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 01:09 PM   #1725
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Great minds think alike.
That’s exactly what I said.
Couch comfy?
 
Old 03-10-2008, 01:30 PM   #1726
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Every time I see those two titles mentioned together, I think of this clip…….watch at least until the 5:30 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHRGvy3U2WA
THAT was classic.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 02:09 PM   #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Craig View Post
The "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" was a real struggle for me. As mentioned, it was the basis of "Lawrence of Arabia". Not only was it 700 pages, it had a very "thick" style of writing. As a result I read it a bit at a time over many months. If anyone decides to read it be forewarned. The most significant thing I took away from reading the book was that there was enough source material to have made a 40 hour movie. Now when I watch "Lawrence of Arabia", the 4 hours seems short instead of long.
I read it as a young man and had a very similar experience. Seven Pillars is a truly tedious read.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 02:31 PM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
When I was in Northern Va. this past year, a friend in the car actually pointed out the road to me where Lorenna allegedly tossed *the appendage*.

Don’t know if it’s true or not but, it certainly made an impression on me.
Next time you're in town, let me know. We'll do dinner.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #1729
Esox50 Esox50 is offline
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Originally Posted by richteer View Post
Oh, it's much worse than that: they remember everything you've done wrong since the day you met! :-)
EDIT: The lady of the house saw that I posted the story about our early date years ago. Just got home from work, and got a stern request to remove upon walking in the door. She didn't like it one bit ("that's a personal item between us and for us"), and told me to take some of my own advice below (now bolded) that was deemed "ok" to leave posted. Sorry, honey.

For you younger fellas, don't underestimate womens' memory. They think about this stuff and all the details more than we do, and remember every little thing. Be careful what you say. If unsure, stay silent.

Have fun on vacation Penton!!!

Last edited by Esox50; 03-10-2008 at 11:40 PM.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 03:09 PM   #1730
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
This is addressed to that Tomlin fellow (from Riverside) who knows stuff about LoA and that “Lawrence” character.
No Googling Rob! Even though, we here support Google.

Okay, you do realize that when Lawrence is captured and flogged in LoA, there has been a presumption by many *film critics* of subsequent forced male rape by his captors in Deraa.

In fact, Lawrence stated as much in his book “Seven Pillars of Wisdom”, so I think we can pretty much conclude that as a given fact occurring during a part of the torture incident that he endured which scarred him forever.*

However, some historians and film critics have also concluded that Lawrence was gay largely because he did not condemn gay practices by others in his book “Seven Pillars of Wisdom”.

So Rob, my question to you…. is there valid historical evidence to conclude that Lawrence was gay…….or not?

*
This realization may also provide some insight to movie viewers as to understanding Lawrence’s cold hearted behavior depicted in Lean’s scene where the Turks are subsequently massacred during the caravan procession.
I saw a PBS special on TE Lawrence and they suggested he was in the closet his whole life. FYI, he was also an avid motorcycle enthusiast and eventually died in a motorcycle crash.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 06:27 PM   #1731
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by spicynacho View Post
I saw a PBS special on TE Lawrence and they suggested he was in the closet his whole life.............
I would imagine that the PBS writers spent the majority of their time reading Desmond Stewart < see the reference to him in my above post as well as other controversial biographers of T.E. Lawrence.

Alas, as when the theatrical film was first reviewed as well as subsequent home media editions, some film critics and home media movie critics have voiced similar suggestions or even conclusions, if you go back and read a lot of the old reviews.

I imagine the same will be presumed when the title eventually makes its way onto Blu-ray by the current generation of home media movie reviewers, which is why I brought the topic up to begin with.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 06:28 PM   #1732
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by RUR View Post
I read it as a young man and had a very similar experience. Seven Pillars is a truly tedious read.
If you like military history and such, try this book.
It’s about Lawrence’s life after W.W.I. when he enrolled anonymously in the Royal Air Force.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product...owViewpoints=1
 
Old 03-10-2008, 06:33 PM   #1733
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Careful of them wolves...........
Did someone say wolf ?
Watch the beginning ………………………..
http://www.blu-ray.sony-europe.com/p...er.php?lang=en

^
Software color corrector provided by the company that has arguably the best 4K scanner on the market.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 06:45 PM   #1734
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
Did someone say wolf ?
Watch the beginning ………………………..
http://www.blu-ray.sony-europe.com/p...er.php?lang=en

^
Software color corrector provided by the company that has arguably the best 4K scanner on the market.
P.S.
Scroll down and watch the full screen version as its better.
We are a “zealotous” bunch here.

Better being a “zealotous” bunch that was right all along rather than a “zealotous” bunch that was dead wrong.
 
Old 03-10-2008, 08:39 PM   #1735
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
P.S.
Scroll down and watch the full screen version as its better.
We are a “zealotous” bunch here.

Better being a “zealotous” bunch that was right all along rather than a “zealotous” bunch that was dead wrong.
Damn straight
 
Old 03-10-2008, 08:47 PM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man
When I was in Northern Va. this past year, a friend in the car actually pointed out the road to me where Lorenna allegedly tossed *the appendage*.

Don’t know if it’s true or not but, it certainly made an impression on me
Next time you're in town, let me know. We'll do dinner.
Hot dogs?
 
Old 03-10-2008, 09:22 PM   #1737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post
If unsure, stay silent.
Why the hell don't they tatoo that on us at birth?

 
Old 03-10-2008, 11:12 PM   #1738
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Hot dogs?
If it's good enough for the President Bush to give to John McCain for lunch... If your in the area you can come to my house for a barbecue!
 
Old 03-10-2008, 11:46 PM   #1739
Esox50 Esox50 is offline
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Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post
Why the hell don't they tatoo that on us at birth?

Yep, I had to edit my post above. She's not mad, just more "disappointed" I'd open my big mouth about a date from early in our relationship. They're watching us...

EDIT: I should say, she's so smart. It's why I married her. Ok, now I really am going to stay silent.

Last edited by Esox50; 03-10-2008 at 11:51 PM.
 
Old 03-11-2008, 12:18 AM   #1740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post
EDIT: The lady of the house saw that I posted the story about our early date years ago. Just got home from work, and got a stern request to remove upon walking in the door. She didn't like it one bit ("that's a personal item between us and for us"), and told me to take some of my own advice below (now bolded) that was deemed "ok" to leave posted. Sorry, honey.
My condolances. Fortunately my wife has a great sense of humour, so I can get away with stuff like this!
 
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