The Animation Discussion Thread (Past, Present and Future Techniques)

[yumny]

Originally Posted by Jacob The Great

Paperman is not a perfect tie-in with Wreck-It Ralph, it should be released with Frankenweenie since they are both black and white.

Paperman was perfect for WiR, the black and white has nothing to do with that. Frankenweenie? *shudder* This is a Disney short, let's not indulge Tim Burton with it.

One of the reasons I think WiR works so well in CGI is because, like Toy Story, the characters are artificial anyway (toys and computer characters).

[disneyfreak]

You know I kind of wish they would get back into hand drawn, even the new Paperman technique is better, because recently I was thinking about it, and CGI really dates a film. Sure, Wreck-it-Ralph truly is stunning now, but what will it look like in 2025? Toy Story looked great for the time, myself I look at it now and I see all of its flaws. Hand drawn however is timeless. You can tell a difference from the decades only because its a new generation. For the most part you could compare Cinderella with Beauty and the Beast and you can't choose which one looks better.

[zoodermin]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

You know I kind of wish they would get back into hand drawn, even the new Paperman technique is better, because recently I was thinking about it, and CGI really dates a film. Sure, Wreck-it-Ralph truly is stunning now, but what will it look like in 2025? Toy Story looked great for the time, myself I look at it now and I see all of its flaws. Hand drawn however is timeless. You can tell a difference from the decades only because its a new generation. For the most part you could compare Cinderella with Beauty and the Beast and you can't choose which one looks better.

Interesting point but I have to disagree. Hand-Drawn animation does not have a timeless quality. I can possibly think Snow White is from this era, it clearly shows its age. The same goes to other films. The Xerox process used in 101 Dalmatians and other films are distinctive from the 60's and 70's and they don't look as if they were animated yesterday. What you said about TS is also true but I don't think that dated animation is an issue. If the movie is good, I don't if it matters if it looks "antique". That's why Snow White is still considered a classic and that's the same reason TS is also considered one.

[yumny]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

Interesting point but I have to disagree. Hand-Drawn animation does not have a timeless quality. I can possibly think Snow White is from this era, it clearly shows its age. The same goes to other films. The Xerox process used in 101 Dalmatians and other films are distinctive from the 60's and 70's and they don't look as if they were animated yesterday. What you said about TS is also true but I don't think that dated animation is an issue. If the movie is good, I don't if it matters if it looks "antique". That's why Snow White is still considered a classic and that's the same reason TS is also considered one.

Yeah, but there is still the difference that:

-dated 2D animation still looks beautiful
-dated CGI tends to look crummy and outdated.

I can still watch Toy Story and tremendously enjoy it because of how exceptionally well it was written, but if I watch something like Monsters Inc. or Finding Nemo (which was from the inbetween period) or even worse, Meet the Robinsons, I always immediately get put off by the CGI look of it.

Some CGI films are so visually inventive however that they completely negate this effect. Say, "Brave" and large parts of "Wreck it Ralph". They'll be memorable in 25 years if only because they look so unique.

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by zoodermin

Interesting point but I have to disagree. Hand-Drawn animation does not have a timeless quality. I can possibly think Snow White is from this era, it clearly shows its age. The same goes to other films. The Xerox process used in 101 Dalmatians and other films are distinctive from the 60's and 70's and they don't look as if they were animated yesterday. What you said about TS is also true but I don't think that dated animation is an issue. If the movie is good, I don't if it matters if it looks "antique". That's why Snow White is still considered a classic and that's the same reason TS is also considered one.

I agree with disneyfreak. You know Snow White is from that era and you know 101 Dalmatians is from the Xerox era because you are familiar with animation and its history. There are a lot of people who have a completely wrong idea about which film was of which decade etc (just go to YouTube and look at the comments).

But let's not compare polar positives (Snow White/Beauty and the Beast etc).

Compare Sleeping Beauty with Beauty and the Beast. Compare Fantasia's Mickey with Mickey from Fantasia 2000. If you are not familiar with the history of these 2 films, you can't possibly guess that there is a 60 year gap between them.

CGI dates much faster and it reveals the film's age as well, whether that's a Pixar film or a film with CGI models in it. Films like Finding Nemo and Toy Story really show their age. Thankfully, IMO, since Ratatouille the age difference is much more subtle.

[Show spoiler]

[Clark Kent]

I don't have a link handy, but Disney just fired most of their hand-drawn animators a few weeks ago. I doubt we'll be seeing any type of classic animation being produced by them that isn't CGI going forward.

[kenny3001]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I don't have a link handy, but Disney just fired most of their hand-drawn animators a few weeks ago. I doubt we'll be seeing any type of classic animation being produced by them that isn't CGI going forward.

bah then again i don't if this is true i heard some CG Animators Use 2d animation as reference.

[filmmusic]

2 sentences:
Love classic hand-drawn animation, don't like at all 3d (except the first 10 or so Pixar films).
Disney is dead to me, thank heavens for studio Ghibli!!

[celticmoon]

Originally Posted by disneyfreak

You know I kind of wish they would get back into hand drawn, even the new Paperman technique is better, because recently I was thinking about it, and CGI really dates a film. Sure, Wreck-it-Ralph truly is stunning now, but what will it look like in 2025? Toy Story looked great for the time, myself I look at it now and I see all of its flaws. Hand drawn however is timeless. You can tell a difference from the decades only because its a new generation. For the most part you could compare Cinderella with Beauty and the Beast and you can't choose which one looks better.

Sorry for digging up a really old discussion, but somehow I wound up here, and wanted to add a bit to this discussion.

I generally agree with disneyfreak and Lnds500's position that hand-drawn holds up better than CGI over time, at least in regards to earlier work in each respective medium. Snow White, Pinnochio, and Bambi all look as beautiful as ever, and in fact, I'd say none of the 90s films, as beautiful as they generally were, could hold a candle to them in a lot of aspects. Toy Story on the other hand, does look quite dated, and comparing it with Toy Story 3 shows that the CGI medium has really come a long way since. Fortunately, I think Toy Story was well-made enough, even in terms of visuals, that it holds up quite well despite this--and remains a classic. (It certainly looks less dated than Dorothy's Return, which will be coming out this year... lol.)

However, I think that CGI has come far enough that the films now won't look particularly dated in 15 years time, so long as they're done right. (That is, Wreck-It Ralph will hold up fine, while Dorothy's Return obviously will not.) Sure, there are still advances being made, but not in the leaps and bounds that were happening before.

Also, animators and studios are finally starting to show us that many different styles are achievable in CGI and that they do not "all look the same," as many detractors claim. Personally, I think The Incredibles holds up a lot better than a lot of the animated CGI flicks from around that time because it was highly stylized. The designs had character to them... They were cartoony and didn't strive for any sense of hyper-realism. While there are still some generic and boring-looking CGI films coming out today, I think in many ways the genre is branching out and achieving unique looks.

I mean somebody, please watch the new Peanuts teaser, then watch the trailers (or full films) for The LEGO Movie, Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, Jack and the Cuckoo Clock Heart, Oblivion Island, and The Painting and tell me that they all look the same. Even if you just take two very mainstream films from last year, like Frozen and Monsters University, you can tell that these films have set out to create very different looks.

I won't argue that the styles in CGI films are as diverse as hand-drawn films. Perhaps we haven't reached that point yet. Perhaps it won't ever quite reach that sort of diversity. However, to say it's not there shows that people really aren't looking too far.