The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Extended Edition 2D 3D Statues 11/5/13

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Lindele

Ok, I apologize. I do seem to forget that all opinions are right on these forums.

Including yours, it seems.

[JamesKurtovich]

Definitely will be picking up the EE, which will be out before DoS. Hopefully with some sort of ticket reimbursement.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Definitely will be picking up the EE, which will be out before DoS. Hopefully with some sort of ticket reimbursement.

Yea, I remember when I skipped that Fellowship DVD and picked up the EE version in Nov of that year, it came with a free movie ticket to the TT.

It would be very nice if they did that again.

.

[Resettito]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Clearly you just don't get it. So I will explain: Your defense/insight about PJ/The Hobbit/LotR is fine. It's your condescending tone, and calling other ignorant that won't be tolerated for long in these forums.
Everyone here is stating their...wait for it...OPINION. Opinions are neither right, nor wrong. They are opinions.
You have stated yours, lets others have their say. There's no need to attack someone over their opinion.

Well, opinions are opinions, but there are cases where there is right AND wrong.

If you saw all the behind the scenes videos that PJ posted on Facebook, it shows that the Hobbit movies are a labor of love and true passion, the guy loves doing this, point.

Oh and about right and wrong, here is an example, if someone said that a movie like Terminator 2 or FOTR is bad, they would be wrong.

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Well, opinions are opinions, but there are cases where there is right AND wrong.

If you saw all the behind the scenes videos that PJ posted on Facebook, it shows that the Hobbit movies are a labor of love and true passion, the guy loves doing this, point.

Oh and about right and wrong, here is an example, if someone said that a movie like Terminator 2 or FOTR is bad, they would be wrong.

No they wouldn't be. That's just another example of an opinion. Whether art is good or bad to any given individual is always subjective. Opinions are exactly that - opinions. They're neither right nor wrong for everyone. Just because you believe a given opinion is wrong doesn't make it wrong for others.

[HomerThompson]

Everyone is entitled to their informed opinions.

Also, saying I didn't like a movie and calling a movie bad are two completely different things. I might hate The Wizard of Oz but there is no denying that it's special to many, many people. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I know something that everyone else doesn't.

[Resettito]

Originally Posted by bsweetness

No they wouldn't be. That's just another example of an opinion. Whether art is good or bad to any given individual is always subjective. Opinions are exactly that - opinions. They're neither right nor wrong for everyone. Just because you believe a given opinion is wrong doesn't make it wrong for others.

Oh no no no no no, there are some things which are facts, that's the way it is, I mean, come on, it's obvious.

[Resettito]

Originally Posted by HomerThompson

Everyone is entitled to their informed opinions.

Also, saying I didn't like a movie and calling a movie bad are two completely different things. I might hate The Wizard of Oz but there is no denying that it's special to many, many people. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I know something that everyone else doesn't.

Well yeah, you can not like a movie, even though it's a fact that that movie is inherently good. It would be like I said, saying that a movie like Terminator 2 is bad, or that Die Hard is bad, or hell, Aliens. That's on the top of my head, but I guess I've made my point.

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Oh no no no no no, there are some things which are facts, that's the way it is, I mean, come on, it's obvious.

Some people might have an opinion that is in the extreme minority, but that doesn't make the opinion of the majority any more right or wrong. They're all still opinions.

Saying that the circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles is a fact.

Saying that any given movie is good or bad is an opinion, plain and simple.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Lindele

You didn't come here to argue...yet when I said something about The Hobbit novel justifying three films you argued that Rankin/Bass did it in one.

No, I observed. Wasn't "arguing", I was just making an observation.

I was simply saying that if you consider the Rankin/Bass version a successful adaptation then there is no point in me arguing with you anymore. You started it my friend.

For a 90-minute made for TV animated film on a shoestring budget, yeah, it was successful. There's some great work in that little film, especially given what they had to work with. Vocal work, in particular, is stellar, and I love the character designs.

As far as my blood pressure, it is fine. I don't think I insulted anybody, and if I sound condescending it is because I am trying to cater to the ignorance in some of the above comments.

Well, you have history of making comments like these:

"David Yates gave us four amazing films, much better than the first four (with the exception of Alfonso Cuaron's beautiful HP3), so I think your words are rather stupid and ignorant. Just taking a look at your wishlist is a pretty big indicator of your ignorance anyway though..."
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...91#post4991691

And your tone in this thread is likewise hostile and condescending.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Well, opinions are opinions, but there are cases where there is right AND wrong.

If you saw all the behind the scenes videos that PJ posted on Facebook, it shows that the Hobbit movies are a labor of love and true passion, the guy loves doing this, point.

Oh and about right and wrong, here is an example, if someone said that a movie like Terminator 2 or FOTR is bad, they would be wrong.

Terminator 2 is a good movie, but the screenplay is a little wonky. "The future, like a dark highway at night..." As opposed to a dark highway in the daytime?

[Resettito]

Don't bother, you just don't get what I mean, there are some movies that are INHERENTLY good, you can say you don't like those movies, but it doesn't change the fact that they are objectively good. Now I can see you're going to ask me "but what qualifies you or other persons to say what is good or bad?", to that, I'll say: knowledge, knowledge of cinema, movies, or filmmaking in general.


It's easy to understand, you go at the movies, you see those average moviegoers who go see only silly blockbusters or shitty movies and who just don't "get" other kinds of movies, if you have no knowledge of movies, and what good movies are, how can you judge?

You're not gonna ask a guy who doesnt know anything about movies, who just goes to the movie theater to watch movies like Ghost Rider or Transformers and shit what he thinks of There Will Be Blood, or Life Of Pi, or The Master, or Citizen Kane, whatever (on the top of my head).



DAMN, I don't want to sound condescending (and I will), but I can't make it any clearer than that.

Take an example, a guy like Jim Cameron would be more qualified than any of us to judge a movie, and it would make sense no?

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Well, opinions are opinions, but there are cases where there is right AND wrong.

If you saw all the behind the scenes videos that PJ posted on Facebook, it shows that the Hobbit movies are a labor of love and true passion, the guy loves doing this, point.

Oh and about right and wrong, here is an example, if someone said that a movie like Terminator 2 or FOTR is bad, they would be wrong.

I've never called PJ's love, for these films, into question. I've just stated that money does play a factor, fact!
Now if you can point me to the article that states PJ gave back ALL the money he's made to date for these films, AND will do the Hobbit films for pro bono, then yes he will move into #1 on my most passionate filmmakers list.

So seeing as that can't/won't happen. We all can hash out, IN OUR OPINION, just how passionate PJ is with his films.

My point was about one member insulting other members just because he didn't agree with them. Senesless.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Don't bother, you just don't get what I mean, there are some movies that are INHERENTLY good, you can say you don't like those movies, but it doesn't change the fact that they are objectively good. Now I can see you're going to ask me "but what qualifies you or other persons to say what is good or bad?", to that, I'll say: knowledge, knowledge of cinema, movies, or filmmaking in general.


It's easy to understand, you go at the movies, you see those average moviegoers who go see only silly blockbusters or shitty movies and who just don't "get" other kinds of movies, if you have no knowledge of movies, and what good movies are, how can you judge?

You're not gonna ask a guy who doesnt know anything about movies, who just goes to the movie theater to watch movies like Ghost Rider or Transformers and shit what he thinks of There Will Be Blood, or Life Of Pi, or The Master, or Citizen Kane, whatever (on the top of my head).



DAMN, I don't want to sound condescending (and I will), but I can't make it any clearer than that.

Take an example, a guy like Jim Cameron would be more qualified than any of us to judge a movie, and it would make sense no?

Doesn't matter who the judges are, as no two people are alike!
Which is why you have no film, in history, that is liked by every person on the planet. Sure some films are liked by lots of people, but so what.
I couldn't care less what JC likes. If he prefers a film that I don't like...big deal. It's my opinion, and only my opinion that counts, in the end.

And it's just that simple.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Lindele

Well perhaps you weren't following along in what was most certainly the most intense and frustrating 5 years any film in history has ever had to go through.
I'm not saying the opportunity to make The Hobbit was a fun one, but it took years of painful lawsuits and other 'pre-production nightmares' to finally get these films made.

I don't consider legal wrangling "pre-production", so maybe we have a communication issue. In my experience, pre-production starts when a project is given the green light, and the script is broken down and budgeted, and art directors and wardrobe and casting directors and all the other myriad departments begin to plan out and prepare for actual production. If wrangling for the rights is pre-production, then it could be said Mary Poppins was in pre-production for fifteen years, and that would be misleading.

Also, I think your appraisal of The Hobbit's pre-production as "the most intense and frustrating five years any film in history has ever had to go through" is simply hyperbole. Many films have taken long protracted and difficult paths from development to production, and many films have had tortuous productions -- The Abyss and Jaws come to mind, as well as Lawrence of Arabia.

[Resettito]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Doesn't matter who the judges are, as no two people are alike!
Which is why you have no film, in history, that is liked by every person on the planet. Sure some films are liked by lots of people, but so what.
I couldn't care less what JC likes. If he prefers a film that I don't like...big deal. It's my opinion, and only my opinion that counts, in the end.

And it's just that simple.

Well yeah, like my opinion is the only one that counts in the end as well, I'm just saying....

[bsweetness]

Originally Posted by Resettito

Don't bother, you just don't get what I mean, there are some movies that are INHERENTLY good, you can say you don't like those movies, but it doesn't change the fact that they are objectively good. Now I can see you're going to ask me "but what qualifies you or other persons to say what is good or bad?", to that, I'll say: knowledge, knowledge of cinema, movies, or filmmaking in general.

It's easy to understand, you go at the movies, you see those average moviegoers who go see only silly blockbusters or shitty movies and who just don't "get" other kinds of movies, if you have no knowledge of movies, and what good movies are, how can you judge?

You're not gonna ask a guy who doesnt know anything about movies, who just goes to the movie theater to watch movies like Ghost Rider or Transformers and shit what he thinks of There Will Be Blood, or Life Of Pi, or The Master, or Citizen Kane, whatever (on the top of my head).

DAMN, I don't want to sound condescending (and I will), but I can't make it any clearer than that.

Take an example, a guy like Jim Cameron would be more qualified than any of us to judge a movie, and it would make sense no?

The problem with your argument is that you're not saying what you think you're saying. What you're trying to argue that the prevailing thought among most people, including critics and film-making professionals, is that the movies you're talking about are good movies. When worded that way, that phrase is a fact. Most people would agree that those are considered to be good movies, and you could find definitive documentation to back that up.

But that doesn't make the prevailing thought innately right or wrong. A few hundred years ago, the prevailing thought was that the earth was flat. That didn't make it any more right. To give a more relevant example, there have been plenty of movies that, upon their initial release, were viewed as mediocre to bad, but over time have developed into being seen as some of the best movies of their time. Why the change in the perception of those films as good or bad? Opinions changed as the times changed, and so did the prevailing perception of whether something is good or bad.

So, in short:

Correct: Stating that a specific movie is widely regarded by experts and/or laymen as being good or bad is a fact. This statement can be backed up with specific figures to prove that it is indeed true.

Incorrect: Stating that because a movie is widely regarded by experts and/or laymen as being good or bad, that makes the movie definitively good or bad. There is no way to back this up with specific figures or facts, because it's entirely based on interpretation and opinion. Subjectivity is inherent to all forms of art, including film.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Doesn't matter who the judges are, as no two people are alike!
Which is why you have no film, in history, that is liked by every person on the planet. Sure some films are liked by lots of people, but so what.
I couldn't care less what JC likes. If he prefers a film that I don't like...big deal. It's my opinion, and only my opinion that counts, in the end.

And it's just that simple.

I tend to break things down between craftsmanship and art. It is entirely possible to give an informed opinion on film craft, but when it comes to how something makes you feel, that's entirely the realm of subjective opinion. An obvious point, perhaps, but it helps sometimes to clarify terms when it comes to film and objectivity and subjectivity.

[Taikero]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Everyone here is stating their...wait for it...OPINION. Opinions are neither right, nor wrong. They are opinions.
You have stated yours, lets others have their say. There's no need to attack someone over their opinion.

An opinion is a luxury, and an unchallenged opinion is worthless.

We as social creatures develop opinions to share them with others and have them challenged. If you wish not to have your opinion challenged, then do not share it. A person who is never challenged on their opinions doesn't understand the true value of one to begin with.

Further, there are many people who state misinformation as an opinion, call it such, and then call for others not to challenge them on that misinformation. That is just intellectual barbarism and cowardice. Whether or not someone has an opinion, misinformation should be corrected in order for all involved to form opinions from correct information rather than misinformation.

It is also a phenomenon of psychology that many individuals, even when challenged or corrected with new information, will hold tightly to opinions created from information that is outdated or false. Change is a scary thing for many of us, but it is necessary nonetheless.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Taikero

An opinion is a luxury, and an unchallenged opinion is worthless.

We as humans develop opinions to share them with others and have them challenged. If you wish not to have your opinion challenged, then do not share it. A person who is never challenged on their opinions doesn't understand the true value of one to begin with.

Further, there are many people who state misinformation as an opinion, call it such, and then call for others not to challenge them on that misinformation. That is just intellectual barbarism and cowardice. Whether or not they have an opinion, misinformation should be corrected in order for all involved to form opinions from correct information rather than misinformation.

It is also a phenomenon of psychology that many individuals, even when challenged or corrected with new information, will hold tightly to opinions created from information that is outdated or false. Change is a scary thing for many of us, but it is necessary nonetheless.

Love this.