Lets talk AntiCables...:)

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

If you want to hear audible improvement, alcohol is the single greatest contribution that you can make to your system.

AJ

Lol...you know I almost put that in my post but I knew someone would comment on that...lol...nice one...

[BIslander]

One would think that if cables could actually produce audible differences, someone would have done a scientifically rigorous study supporting such claims. Why, after all these years, is there no such study?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by josh6113

Read the testimonials on the Anti cable website from actual users....

Absolutely worthless, IMO. People believe what they want to believe. The esoteric audio industry has been selling sham beliefs that defy physics for a long time. You say you performed your own "A-B" test, but it's meaningless because you knew which cable you were listening to. The only test that counts is a blind A-B test and I've seen an entire room of Audio Engineering Society members, many of whom considered themselves to be "golden ears", fail them.

I'm an ex-recording engineer. I can't tell you the number of times that some annoying producer asked me to change something in the mix and I twiddled some knobs without actually changing anything and the producer said, "yeah, that's much better now!"

There are all kinds of psychological audio effects. Asked to choose between two signals, 99% of people will choose the louder one as the one that they perceive as higher quality. That's why in A-B tests, the levels MUST be perfectly matched. People will choose a system with more bass and treble over a speaker that's more accurate. Back in the 1970s, I sold audio equipment and I sold far more of a crappy OEM house brand than a high quality classic speaker from Acoustic Research that were priced the same, even when people came in asking for the AR. (I personally bought the AR).

Repetition of the same segment of audio will result in the brain getting used to it and it will begin to sound "right". That's one thing that audio editors need to be cognizant of because if you have a bad edit and you listen to it 10x, it will sound okay until you leave it for a while and then come back to it. There's a relatively new book out about how the brain deals with sound and it's all quite interesting (sorry...forgot the title).

Ever watch Jimmy Kimmel's bit "Lie-Witness News"? They ask people on the street about events that never happened and they get tons of people to comment on the events as if they did happen. This isn't a real example, but they'll say something like, "did you see on the news that Obama punched a baby in the mouth" and they'll say, "Yeah, that was really terrible - he shouldn't have done that. I was really shocked." It's not too hard for someone to start claiming that if you place a piece of popcorn on top of a speaker, it will sound better and then thousands of people will jump on that bandwagon. While not relevant to this particular case, half the stuff I read about audio has people applying analog rules to digital signals. People who simply do not understand the physics behind digital audio think they know what they're talking about. Somehow they think that dipping a cable in chocolate is going to change the digital 1s and 0s in a bitstream or the lands and pits on a CD.

The same is true for other audio myths. I especially enjoy the golden ears who thought that placing tissue paper in front of a speaker cone made a difference. Or taking the magic marker and marking the edge of a CD. Or the expensive weight they sell you to place on top of a CD on vinyl LP. Or all the B.S. from Monster Cable, which is brilliant marketing, but has no basis in reality. Reading esoteric audio reviews really cracks me up. They practically claim that the musicians play better on the esoteric equipment.

(I always feel like my car drives better after I bring it to the car wash, but that obviously has no basis in reality.)

If you can explain to me using accepted physics how a cable of relatively short length can change frequency response within the range of human hearing, or change phase or distortion levels, then I'm willing to listen. But failing that, you've got a hard sell. But if you love your cables, I'm happy for you.

[rpatt]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Absolutely worthless, IMO. People believe what they want to believe. The esoteric audio industry has been selling sham beliefs that defy physics for a long time. You say you performed your own "A-B" test, but it's meaningless because you knew which cable you were listening to. The only test that counts is a blind A-B test and I've seen an entire room of Audio Engineering Society members, many of whom considered themselves to be "golden ears", fail them.

I'm an ex-recording engineer. I can't tell you the number of times that some annoying producer asked me to change something in the mix and I twiddled some knobs without actually changing anything and the producer said, "yeah, that's much better now!"

There are all kinds of psychological audio effects. Asked to choose between two signals, 99% of people will choose the louder one as the one that they perceive as higher quality. That's why in A-B tests, the levels MUST be perfectly matched. People will choose a system with more bass and treble over a speaker that's more accurate. Back in the 1970s, I sold audio equipment and I sold far more of a crappy OEM house brand than a high quality classic speaker from Acoustic Research that were priced the same, even when people came in asking for the AR. (I personally bought the AR).

Repetition of the same segment of audio will result in the brain getting used to it and it will begin to sound "right". That's one thing that audio editors need to be cognizant of because if you have a bad edit and you listen to it 10x, it will sound okay until you leave it for a while and then come back to it. There's a relatively new book out about how the brain deals with sound and it's all quite interesting (sorry...forgot the title).

Ever watch Jimmy Kimmel's bit "Lie-Witness News"? They ask people on the street about events that never happened and they get tons of people to comment on the events as if they did happen. This isn't a real example, but they'll say something like, "did you see on the news that Obama punched a baby in the mouth" and they'll say, "Yeah, that was really terrible - he shouldn't have done that. I was really shocked." It's not too hard for someone to start claiming that if you place a piece of popcorn on top of a speaker, it will sound better and then thousands of people will jump on that bandwagon. While not relevant to this particular case, half the stuff I read about audio has people applying analog rules to digital signals. People who simply do not understand the physics behind digital audio think they know what they're talking about. Somehow they think that dipping a cable in chocolate is going to change the digital 1s and 0s in a bitstream or the lands and pits on a CD.

The same is true for other audio myths. I especially enjoy the golden ears who thought that placing tissue paper in front of a speaker cone made a difference. Or taking the magic marker and marking the edge of a CD. Or the expensive weight they sell you to place on top of a CD on vinyl LP. Or all the B.S. from Monster Cable, which is brilliant marketing, but has no basis in reality. Reading esoteric audio reviews really cracks me up. They practically claim that the musicians play better on the esoteric equipment.

(I always feel like my car drives better after I bring it to the car wash, but that obviously has no basis in reality.)

If you can explain to me using accepted physics how a cable of relatively short length can change frequency response within the range of human hearing, or change phase or distortion levels, then I'm willing to listen. But failing that, you've got a hard sell. But if you love your cables, I'm happy for you.

The power of suggestion.

[v_squared123]

Originally Posted by rpatt

The power of suggestion.

I checked out the website and thought I'd share my finding. 30 day Risk free trial! Maybe someone can buy a pair and do some a/b testing and do a short write up? Couldn't hurt to try right?

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Absolutely worthless, IMO. People believe what they want to believe. The esoteric audio industry has been selling sham beliefs that defy physics for a long time. You say you performed your own "A-B" test, but it's meaningless because you knew which cable you were listening to. The only test that counts is a blind A-B test and I've seen an entire room of Audio Engineering Society members, many of whom considered themselves to be "golden ears", fail them.

I'm an ex-recording engineer. I can't tell you the number of times that some annoying producer asked me to change something in the mix and I twiddled some knobs without actually changing anything and the producer said, "yeah, that's much better now!"

There are all kinds of psychological audio effects. Asked to choose between two signals, 99% of people will choose the louder one as the one that they perceive as higher quality. That's why in A-B tests, the levels MUST be perfectly matched. People will choose a system with more bass and treble over a speaker that's more accurate. Back in the 1970s, I sold audio equipment and I sold far more of a crappy OEM house brand than a high quality classic speaker from Acoustic Research that were priced the same, even when people came in asking for the AR. (I personally bought the AR).

Repetition of the same segment of audio will result in the brain getting used to it and it will begin to sound "right". That's one thing that audio editors need to be cognizant of because if you have a bad edit and you listen to it 10x, it will sound okay until you leave it for a while and then come back to it. There's a relatively new book out about how the brain deals with sound and it's all quite interesting (sorry...forgot the title).

Ever watch Jimmy Kimmel's bit "Lie-Witness News"? They ask people on the street about events that never happened and they get tons of people to comment on the events as if they did happen. This isn't a real example, but they'll say something like, "did you see on the news that Obama punched a baby in the mouth" and they'll say, "Yeah, that was really terrible - he shouldn't have done that. I was really shocked." It's not too hard for someone to start claiming that if you place a piece of popcorn on top of a speaker, it will sound better and then thousands of people will jump on that bandwagon. While not relevant to this particular case, half the stuff I read about audio has people applying analog rules to digital signals. People who simply do not understand the physics behind digital audio think they know what they're talking about. Somehow they think that dipping a cable in chocolate is going to change the digital 1s and 0s in a bitstream or the lands and pits on a CD.

The same is true for other audio myths. I especially enjoy the golden ears who thought that placing tissue paper in front of a speaker cone made a difference. Or taking the magic marker and marking the edge of a CD. Or the expensive weight they sell you to place on top of a CD on vinyl LP. Or all the B.S. from Monster Cable, which is brilliant marketing, but has no basis in reality. Reading esoteric audio reviews really cracks me up. They practically claim that the musicians play better on the esoteric equipment.

(I always feel like my car drives better after I bring it to the car wash, but that obviously has no basis in reality.)

If you can explain to me using accepted physics how a cable of relatively short length can change frequency response within the range of human hearing, or change phase or distortion levels, then I'm willing to listen. But failing that, you've got a hard sell. But if you love your cables, I'm happy for you.

I appreciate your response...but saying the testimonials from actual users are wrong is very short sighted.I could very well say that about you being an engineer but I won't.Have you tried the Anti cables?...if not you should...you might surprise yourself...

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by v_squared123

I checked out the website and thought I'd share my finding. 30 day Risk free trial! Maybe someone can buy a pair and do some a/b testing and do a short write up? Couldn't hurt to try right?

Funny...I thought I did that very thing......but yes the more the merrier...

[WiWavelength]

The question is not only audibility but also accuracy. Chances are that if Anticables are audibly superior to "regular" cables in ABX testing, then Anticables are acting as a filter, altering or distorting the original signal. And I will put my money where my mouth is -- I will pay the $140 cost of one pair of Anticables to anyone who can scientifically show that Anticables are audibly distinguishable from generic 12 AWG cable and that they transfer the signal more accurately than does that generic cable.

AJ

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

The question is not only audibility but also accuracy. Chances are that if Anticables are audibly superior to "regular" cables in ABX testing, then Anticables are acting as a filter, altering or distorting the original signal. And I will put my money where my mouth is -- I will pay the $140 cost of one pair of Anticables to anyone who can scientifically show that Anticables are audibly distinguishable from generic 12 AWG cable and that they transfer the signal more accurately than does that generic cable.

AJ

You should send Paul Speltz an email......the creator of anti cables...he is an EE also.

[BIslander]

I see that after 20 hours, no one has taken the troll bait on this same post at AVS.

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I see that after 20 hours, no one has taken the troll bait on this same post at AVS.

...call it what you will but if you have never tried the Anti cable...then what's your point?

[BIslander]

Zero science behind your observations. If you actually have an interest in persuading anyone, you might try doing something beyond simply repeating the claim that you think a particular cable improves the sound. Repeating is all you have done here.

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Zero science behind your observations. If you actually have an interest in persuading anyone, you might try doing something beyond simply repeating the claim that you think a particular cable improves the sound. Repeating is all you have done here.

The one thing that is amusing is that you won't try the cable unless you have some scientific evidence to prove other wise....doesn't bother me...I'm just simply pointing out my findings...and if you never try them no biggie...just stick to your cables and believe what you want...I think outside the box and follow my own curiosities... I don't follow what everyone else does.Take a chance...you might suprise yourself...

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by josh6113

The one thing that is amusing is that you won't try the cable unless you have some scientific evidence to prove other wise....doesn't bother me...I'm just simply pointing out my findings...and if you never try them no biggie...just stick to your cables and believe what you want...I think outside the box and follow my own curiosities... I don't follow what everyone else does.Take a chance...you might suprise yourself...

As long as you are happy why try convincing everyone else?

To me 12AWG is 12AWG. Termination types of wires and possible wave interference is the only thing that could cause an audible difference. Those are the facts. 12AWG from monoprice is not only far less expensive but it will do every bit as good as 12AWG from anywhere else.

Take a chance....try Monoprice speaker wire...you might surprise yourself...

[josh6113]

http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...arison-tests-0

All non believers read this test...

[josh6113]

[QUOTE

Take a chance....try Monoprice speaker wire...you might surprise yourself...[/QUOTE]

If you read my post you would of seen I have......and it was 12AWG stranded cable...

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by josh6113

http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...arison-tests-0

All non believers read this test...

Did you read this before you posted it? Cable C was the winner and described as heavy gauge cable. The rest were 16AWG and 18AWG.

No crap the higher gauge cable wins. That's not a fair test to determine if speaker cables make a difference.

The playing field has to be equal all respective specs must match. Otherwise the test is useless.

[Troy73]

Originally Posted by josh6113

If you read my post you would of seen I have......and it was 12AWG stranded cable...

To be fair, I'm not sure what you have and haven't tried. From what you are posting it seems you are more about pushing this brand rather than the pursuit of better sounding cables. Since as another poster pointed out you seem to have stopped on these as if to say nothing else could be better. I seriously doubt you've tried all that's out there so your claims are very suspect to say the least.

Also, since you are the one making the claim the burden is on you to prove it to us not the other way around. If you can produce solid research and findings to back up your claims I'll entertain it. Otherwise I'll continue to go with what science and industry research has shown.

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by Troy73

Did you read this before you posted it? Cable C was the winner and described as heavy gauge cable. The rest were 16AWG and 18AWG.

No crap the higher gauge cable wins. That's not a fair test to determine if speaker cables make a difference.

The playing field has to be equal all respective specs must match. Otherwise the test is useless.

Of course...did you?...look at the mesurment graph too...this was a blind test...but like most no belivers they will pick apart this and call for more proof when its there in black and white.

[josh6113]

Originally Posted by Troy73

To be fair, I'm not sure what you have and haven't tried. From what you are posting it seems you are more about pushing this brand rather than the pursuit of better sounding cables. Since as another poster pointed out you seem to have stopped on these as if to say nothing else could be better. I seriously doubt you've tried all that's out there so your claims are very suspect to say the least.

Also, since you are the one making the claim the burden is on you to prove it to us not the other way around. If you can produce solid research and findings to back up your claims I'll entertain it. Otherwise I'll continue to go with what science and industry research has shown.

I haven't said the Anti cables were the end all best...I just posted my findings and the Anti cable gives me a great sound where as the cable I used before seemed to be lacking in someway.Also of course there might be better cable out there...I never said there wasn't...but from what I've used compared to the Anti cable....I've found a cable that really let's me hear and feel the music like no other that I've tried...