Abandoning Blu-ray for a while.

[ra1024]

I bought my PS3 for a BR player and haven't had any issues with movie playback. I've also gotten hooked on RFOM as it's a great game. The PS3 is actually more than just a game machine or BR player and unelss you need analog outs for a receiver, I can't think of any reason to get a standalone. Without an HDMI receiver, you won't be able to get true lossless audio with the PS3.

[Filterlab]

The audio is not really an issue at the moment as my system is excellent quality as it stands, and I've never been displeased with that aspect (in most cases) with DVD and the PS2.

If you are to do a search on 'Blu-ray judder' on Google you'll find an alarming amount of problems with all variety of players. Of course, it's not easily found when new to the format but once one is familiar and starts digging it's apparent that it's quite a large issue.

Surely in this day and age the world should be able to agree on an FPS rate for the next generation worldwide format? If not, what's holding Sony back on sorting out all the issues now before it's too late and people lose faith.

Panasonic did get back (five mins ago) but were no help at all stating that they'd not heard of the issue. (Mmmmm, ok).

Anyway, PS3 users don't seem to have the issue so I'll return my BD player and grab a PS3 tomorrow afternoon. Luckily I really enjoy gaming (Parallel lines - what a game!) so a PS3 won't be a bad move, I just wish my image of Blu-ray hadn't been tainted so early on.

[nobody]

Originally Posted by Filterlab

Well, I bought the Panasonic player a few weeks back and I'm already thinking that it's been a mistake - at this point anyway.

The picture quality is superb, contrast between dark and light is seriously excellent and to have no 'blocking' or 'toothing' is great. Sound quality is extremely good even though my processor isn't HDMI and is simply running Dolby/DTS via Coaxial.

But this juddering, it's really getting on my nerves. No matter what I do I can't seem to stop the problem. I've tried switching from PAL to NTSC, changing the resolution from 1080 to 720, watching via composite - but nothing works.

Oddly the problem wasn't prevalent until I updated the firmware to 1.4 (from 1.2) but since it's not possible to revert to a previous firmware level, I'm stuck at 1.4. Panasonic have been NO HELP whatsoever, failing to reply to three helpline requests via Panasonic.co.uk.

I'm very miffed as I spent £700 ($1,372) on a Blu-ray player that is uncomfortable and distracting to watch.

However, on playback of normal DVDs, whether viewed via upscaling or standard definition, there simply isn't a problem. No judder, just clean and smooth motion.

As I said I've gone through every setting possible to try and cure the problem but it just seems to me that this technology has been released without really being properly thought through.

There seems to be a huge question mark over what and how the varying frame rates and consequential pull-down should be addressed and the whole thing smacks of disagreement.

With 24fps trying to be 25fps (24.97fps is it?) and 1080/50p really being 1080/50i trying to be displayed at 1080/60 on a 60hz TV which is actually 50hz in the UK anyway even when on NTSC mode and some BD players having 1080/24 mode but the displays not being compatible because 24 is not an integer of 60 blah blah blah, what is going on?

Will these issues ever be rectified or is this format money down the toilet?

I'd imagined that buying a Panasonic HDTV for £2,000 ($3,920) and a Panasonic Blu-ray player that it should produce a perfect image as both units must definitely be compatible, but nope.

Any ideas anyone, or do I sell the BD player and go to the other camp?

should.ve gotten a $500 PS3.

[Filterlab]

And I will be, tomorrow.

BTW, a PS3 in the UK is £425 which is the equivalent of $841.50. We don't quite get the prices you guys do!

[airwedge1]

This is by far the best combination I have seen. Gives the most amazing picture quality, and far surpasses anything else I have ever seen. I have not had a problem with any blu-ray movies. I've watched about a dozen so far with the ps3.

[ZX-VETTE]

Originally Posted by Filterlab

Cool!

Spoken to the shop and they're happy to take it back. I'll toddle along to the Playstation shop and grab a PS3 + the remote + Motorworld which looks very good.

Just to add, I've watched 10 or 11 blu-ray movies on my PS3 and the picture is great, the remote works well, and no juddering.

[ZX-VETTE]

Originally Posted by airwedge1

This is by far the best combination I have seen. Gives the most amazing picture quality, and far surpasses anything else I have ever seen. I have not had a problem with any blu-ray movies. I've watched about a dozen so far with the ps3.

I have a KDS-R70XBR2 and have to agree with your assessment. It's an amazing TV, comes with an extra lamp, and has three HDMI ports (PS3, Cablebox, and future blu-ray burner).

[The Don]

you just might have a faulty product....

my PS3 works like a charm..

[Deciazulado]

Ok.
UK/Europe having problems guys.

BDs at the moment have 1080 x 1920 24fps material, 30fps material (on 60i), and 60i material

So the output on your players should be 60Hz and your displays all do accept and refresh at 60hz in addition to 50Hz as I've been told repeatedly by Europeans, no?

If you're getting judder at 60Hz with movies with BD Players outputting 60Hz into 60Hz refresh displays , either the player is having a serious problem (as some imply) or you're seeing the effects of 24 fps to 60Hz judder and/or some 24fps pan judder, which is normal.

You could also be seeing some motion deinterlacing artifacts if your player doesn't accept 60p and has to be using the 60i output from the player instead of 60p and deinterlacing it into 60p for display on your 60p displays.

When you translate 24p to 60p you have to repeat 12 alternating frames twice and 12 alternating frames thrice (3:2). Having detail and sharpness be up to 8 times better than standard 480i 60Hz might make this noticeable (a blurry movement is always a blurry movement even if it's irregular but when things are sharp you see the edges clearly where they are in movement)

Also: When deiterlacing 60i to 60p a display may take the easy route of just taking each 540 x 1920 field and making a 1080 x 1920 field so the whole frames are split into "whole" fields and flashed 60 times a second. That could lead to more visual judder if done improperly.

The thing is why would the region A Panasonics, PS3s, and Samsungs do this better than the region B ones if both are doing 60Hz outputs into 60Hz capable displays without people in region A noticing any problems (that they haven't noticed with 24fps film into 60Hz video for 60 years before with NTSC which is why BD makes use the 24p standard in players and displays to get rid of this with films)? This would imply that the same machines that know how to do 60hz the proper way, forgot how to do it just because they have region B drives?

[Filterlab]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

If you're getting judder at 60Hz with movies with BD Players outputting 60Hz into 60Hz refresh displays , either the player is having a serious problem (as some imply) or you're seeing the effects of 24 fps to 60Hz judder and/or some 24fps pan judder, which is normal.

The amount of judder I have on the BD10 certainly isn't normal. A little bit of judder is usual with most video replay systems regardless of type, to see this all you have to do is scroll a page down on your computer monitor, but to this degree can't be normal.

I've watched terrestrial channels last night (because my BD player was in its box) and I did notice a tiny bit of judder from some programmes, in comparison the BD player was juddering on all motion, heavily in some films (The Fugitive for one), so much so in fact that whilst watching The Fugitive I had to pause it for ten minutes because I was getting a headache, which for me is unheard of.

I think my player may just be a dodgy one and Panasonic are taking it back, but should this type of problem exist with our current level of technology? Hopefully it's being corrected as Blu-ray develops, and with a surge of gen2 players on the release (which the BD10a is!) I guess a lot of issues will be corrected. However, whether a manufacturer should release expensive hardware (coupled with expensive media) when it could still be potentially flawed is a huge risk.

Anyway, there's great positive comments about the PS3, from the US and Europe, which is highly encouraging so I'll grab one today and do a direct comparison. Obviously I'll put my findings on here.

Thanks for all your comments/suggestions. Forums.... how would we live without them?!

[Smallville206]

Good luck, I hope the PS3 works fine for you, I've experienced no problems watching movies on mine.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Smallville206

Good luck, I hope the PS3 works fine for you, I've experienced no problems watching movies on mine.

I have experienced any playback problems on my PS3 and it's been battle tested with over 100 titles.

[Scorxpion]

YES PS3 ITS a FABULOUS BLU-RAY PLAYER and EXTRAORDINARY MACHINE done to live 10 years ahead ..........before i decide to buy a PS3 i was looking forward to buy a BLU_RAY PLAYER once it has been reviewed and got a remarkable higher results across many sites and see it myself.I bought it blindly without any single question or whatever.But doesnt at all mean i'm not going to own a NEW generation player once the price dropped.Again here i can have BOTH PLAYER comparing to each other.

PS3 was a hit Machine once it is released.THIS IS ONLY MY experience

[Filterlab]

Well I got the PS3.

Motorstorm is a laugh a minute, especially the rally car driving.

As far as the Blu-ray bit goes, much smoother and easier on the eye. Maybe not quite as much picture detail but that comes as no surprise, but everything else is at least as good or better.

I watched Hitchhiker's (again) last night and the whole movie was precise, exact and just enjoyable. So worth getting a refund on the Panasonic and moving over to the PS3.

As far as DVD playback goes, I've just watched the first DVD tonight and it doesn't play as nice as the Panasonic did, however I understand that Sony are planning to release a firmware upgrade to run standard definition in upscale so I'll look forward to that.

All in all, pleased - oh and the bluetooth remote control is fantastic.

[degas]

Glad to hear everything worked out for you, Filterlab!

[Gremal]

Great news filterlab. That'll teach you to buy panasonic!

[sticks]

Originally Posted by airwedge1

This is by far the best combination I have seen. Gives the most amazing picture quality, and far surpasses anything else I have ever seen. I have not had a problem with any blu-ray movies. I've watched about a dozen so far with the ps3.

I have a Samsung player and the Samsung ns4695d since last october and have never had a problem.

[Nismobeach]

Glad to hear you like your PS3 filter!

[jbuttler007]

PS3 and Blu-ray are the best thing to happen to me, for now, but Sony need to pick things up quick because it feels like if I'm begining to lose interest on my $600 investment.

[Blu_Ray_UK2007]

Originally Posted by Filterlab

Well I got the PS3.

Motorstorm is a laugh a minute, especially the rally car driving.

As far as the Blu-ray bit goes, much smoother and easier on the eye. Maybe not quite as much picture detail but that comes as no surprise, but everything else is at least as good or better.

I watched Hitchhiker's (again) last night and the whole movie was precise, exact and just enjoyable. So worth getting a refund on the Panasonic and moving over to the PS3.

As far as DVD playback goes, I've just watched the first DVD tonight and it doesn't play as nice as the Panasonic did, however I understand that Sony are planning to release a firmware upgrade to run standard definition in upscale so I'll look forward to that.

All in all, pleased - oh and the bluetooth remote control is fantastic.

Glad to hear all is well now.
After returning that player you must have some cash left over for games and films.. result!