Because Blu-Ray will "obviously" be replaced rapidly by streaming only...

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Never used vudu, I don't think I ever will. As for Apple TV, you need a minimum of 4.4 mps I think. For 1080p (near instant) you would need 8mps. Minimum HDX is 4.5 mps.
Vudu is streaming while iTunes is downloading that is why you have to wait as your Internet speed is just not fast enough. P



I agree, renting digital is perfectly fine, IMO this is where the market is headed, consumer will turn into renters vs buyers.

I'm not sure where you heard that but in all the meetings and conferences I've been in with studio heads as speakers, the studios plan to continue to use windowing. There will a ways be renters and purchasers. Two categories and they will cater to both. Sure the pendulum will swing in one favor more than the other but they will both be supported. But many people prefer to own their content but the studios need to get their Ultraviolet Common File Format deployed. The studios are spending a lot of time and effort in prep of this. The aim is at people like us who consume a lot of media and those of us who enjoy purchasing as the CFF will be the download to own portion of the UV ecosystem, giving us playability on home machines including storing your purchased files on a home server if that is preferred.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

36 years after rentals started it'll finally start to kill buying. You heard it here first folks.

Again two different market types. One may be more popular than the other as it has swung in the past but both markets for rental and purchase will be supported in the future.

Sarah

[KRW1]

Renters have always outnumbered buyers by a considerable margin. Always have, always will.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Renters have always outnumbered buyers by a considerable margin. Always have, always will.

Keep in mind that sell through was not as popular with VHS as the studios charged a very high premium on cassettes that were sold to video stores during the rental window.

It wasn't until DVD that sell through became so cheap on street date. Remember, DVD allowed the masses an option of buying instead of renting right away.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Keep in mind that sell through was not as popular with VHS as the studios charged a very high premium on cassettes that were sold to video stores during the rental window.

It wasn't until DVD that sell through became so cheap on street date. Remember, DVD allowed the masses an option of buying instead of renting right away.

Renters will always outnumber buyers, always have, always will. It's simple maths. Everyone likes watching films. Not everyone likes watching the same fllm twice, ergo the first group will always outnumber the second group. Always, always.

I'm not sure how your points add to that, to be honest. They're wrong as well, sell thru VHS was insanely popular. The premium charged for rental cassette has nothing to do with that at all. It's a different thing altogether. Big releases like Raiders, Titanic and so on sold by the bucketful and niche labels sprang up all over the place, most of which are still going.

DVD did offer day and date sales, but it didnt stop rental being more popular for the masses. Only the collectors would pay the £20-25 charged per film over a £2 per night charge.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Renters will always outnumber buyers, always have, always will. It's simple maths. Everyone likes watching films. Not everyone likes watching the same fllm twice, ergo the first group will always outnumber the second group. Always, always.

I'm not sure how your points add to that, to be honest. They're wrong as well, sell thru VHS was insanely popular. The premium charged for rental cassette has nothing to do with that at all. It's a different thing altogether. Big releases like Raiders, Titanic and so on sold by the bucketful and niche labels sprang up all over the place, most of which are still going.

DVD did offer day and date sales, but it didnt stop rental being more popular for the masses. Only the collectors would pay the £20-25 charged per film over a £2 per night charge.

Im talking $$$ volume. You are incorrect on that. This is the first year in a long time that rental is expected to bring in more $$$ than sell thru. That was reported earlier this year in Home Media Magazine. Just because rental is more popular doesn't mean that Sell thru is going away. Sell thru (physical and digital sell thru) is a $9+ Billion dollar a year business. Hardly chump change. There are very few businesses that can claim to be $9 Billion dollar ones. Thats no small feat.
Again Rental and Sell Thru will still thrive side by side even in a digital world.

Sarah

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Renters have always outnumbered buyers by a considerable margin. Always have, always will.

And yet both businesses (rental and Sell thru) have and will continue to survive.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Keep in mind that sell through was not as popular with VHS as the studios charged a very high premium on cassettes that were sold to video stores during the rental window.

It wasn't until DVD that sell through became so cheap on street date. Remember, DVD allowed the masses an option of buying instead of renting right away.

Spot on. Not everyone will want to buy but those who do, have and will have the option to do so. They do need to get their standards for downloading off the ground first and foremost. Hopefully with Ultraviolet CFF we will see that.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Towergrove

They do need to get their standards for downloading off the ground first and foremost.

I agree for buying movies they will need to get the standards right, but for renting it will not be that much of a factor.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Yes I know I am spot on, right now there are a lot of people who buy movies so they can watch them at home, thanks to the fact that dvds were at sell through pricing, it eliminated the rental windows that studios frequently had on VHS tapes, these people who do not exactly collect, buy a movie or two a month....once these consumers change their habits and start applying the cost of the movie, into a rental charge, they will start getting more value for their movie watching. I have already done this online and I have watched Tender Mercies, Life of Pi, and Perks of a Wallflower in outstanding 1080p all for less than the cost of a brand new bluray....

If these people really wanted to just rent couldnt they have done so already yet they still buy? Rentals are everywhere, in vending machines, some video stores and even online yet people are still buying. I think there will always be a group that buy instead of rent. Now not everyone will always want to buy every film but that option, the choice to purchase OR rent will still be there.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Towergrove

If these people really wanted to just rent couldnt they have done so already yet they still buy? Rentals are everywhere, in vending machines, some video stores and even online yet people are still buying. I think there will always be a group that buy instead of rent. Now not everyone will always want to buy every film but that option, the choice to purchase OR rent will still be there.

Renting via mail or vending is delayed. Movie studios do not get a percentage of a redbox rental like they would a Vudu rental. Blockbuster does not pay out a percentage either, the studios makes the money off the hard sale. Plus blockbuster is choking and is going out of business.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Renting via mail or vending is delayed. Movie studios do not get a percentage of a redbox rental like they would a Vudu rental. Blockbuster does not pay out a percentage either, the studios makes the money off the hard sale. Plus blockbuster is choking and is going out of business.

and this makes for the consumers changing their habits how??

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Towergrove

Im talking $$$ volume. You are incorrect on that. This is the first year in a long time that rental is expected to bring in more $$$ than sell thru. That was reported earlier this year in Home Media Magazine. Just because rental is more popular doesn't mean that Sell thru is going away. Sell thru (physical and digital sell thru) is a $9+ Billion dollar a year business. Hardly chump change. There are very few businesses that can claim to be $9 Billion dollar ones. Thats no small feat.
Again Rental and Sell Thru will still thrive side by side even in a digital world.

Sarah

I see, I was going by sheer numbers. Of course turnover is going to be higher for sell thru as the cost is higher.

Originally Posted by Towergrove

Spot on. Not everyone will want to buy but those who do, have and will have the option to do so. They do need to get their standards for downloading off the ground first and foremost. Hopefully with Ultraviolet CFF we will see that.

I don't really see the point of ultraviolet. Why would I bother with it? Sell it to me.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by KRW1

I don't really see the point of ultraviolet. Why would I bother with it? Sell it to me.

I've never bothered with it but I can see the point.

My sister and my mom live next to each other and I occasionally spend weekends down there. I've got a BD player and forty or so duplicate BDs down there and I also carry a bunch of discs back and forth.

If streaming quality every catches up it would be nice to have access to all my films/tv shows by simply registering a device. I can also see the appeal of being able to watch stuff on a phone while riding a train or the like.

To me those kinds of things will (probably) never replace physical media but they could make a nice 'value added' feature.

[Steedeel]

Lets not forget, collectors like displaying box sets and limited edition packaging or steel book blurays. These guys (me included) wont budge.

[coolguy2013]

Originally Posted by i007spectre

When streaming gives me the quality that a blu-ray does I may consider using it.

Then try Tyso Vi-Core. You will get the same quality as your source with HD sound.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by KRW1

I see, I was going by sheer numbers. Of course turnover is going to be higher for sell thru as the cost is higher.



I don't really see the point of ultraviolet. Why would I bother with it? Sell it to me.

Sell what to you? The adverts say "Own it today on DVD, Bluray or Ultraviolet." what else is there to sell? Once I click the buy now button I can download said UV file to the device or server of my choosing. I can store said file on any medium I choose be it DVD, BD USB or any other storage. I can also stream the file if I desire. Again not sure what is left to sell to you with a digital purchase?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Lets not forget, collectors like displaying box sets and limited edition packaging or steel book blurays. These guys (me included) wont budge.

Yes steel is correct lot of people love the packaging. Then there are people like me who collect "Films and television". The stuff that's on the disc or that is downloaded to own is what's important to me not the box I store away in my closet. I'm a fan of the moving picture more so than a fan of packaging. What it looks like on my screen is more important than what the box looks like. That's why I collect.

Sarah

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Renting via mail or vending is delayed. Movie studios do not get a percentage of a redbox rental like they would a Vudu rental. Blockbuster does not pay out a percentage either, the studios makes the money off the hard sale. Plus blockbuster is choking and is going out of business.

Lets not forget to add the cost of a decent Internet high speed connection into the cost of the online rental. Many people get high speed internet specifically for video viewing online. Those monthly fees along with overage and metered billing add lots of $ to the standard cost of a cheap rental online.

Again cheap rental has been around for years, online renting has been around for some time now as well, yet people are spending Billions on sell thru. Again two markets will continue to exist.

Originally Posted by wormraper

and this makes for the consumers changing their habits how??

Short answer... no

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Good luck trying to break the encryption coding on a digital cinema package.

Unfortunately for the studios code kids love this stuff. It's a puzzle to them and they eventually reverse engineer or break them (encryption). It like candy to the coders.

[arrow61095]

Originally Posted by Towergrove

Unfortunately for the studios code kids love this stuff. It's a puzzle to them and they eventually reverse engineer or break them (encryption). It like candy to the coders.

It is always only a matter of time.

I remember when the encryption on DVDs got broken by 7 lines of Perl code, and the movie studios tried to go after MIT students and they cited Freedom of speech and put the code on T-shirts.

http://news.cnet.com/New-decryption-..._3-253761.html

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifesty.../2001/03/42259

The second link actually has the basic perl code --- gosh I like programming in perl

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Towergrove

Yes steel is correct lot of people love the packaging. Then there are people like me who collect "Films and television". The stuff that's on the disc or that is downloaded to own is what's important to me not the box I store away in my closet. I'm a fan of the moving picture more so than a fan of packaging. What it looks like on my screen is more important than what the box looks like. That's why I collect.

Sarah

I collect because I am passionate about movies and can re-watch most of them. Of course, that is the main thing. However, I love my special editions and have them displayed in/on my cabinet.

It will just be naff having to download my collection, if the quality improves then I will go with that if optical eventually dies. If not it is goodbye to a twenty year+ hobby.

[Towergrove]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I collect because I am passionate about movies and can re-watch most of them. Of course, that is the main thing. However, I love my special editions and have them displayed in/on my cabinet.

It will just be naff having to download my collection, if the quality improves then I will go with that if optical eventually dies. If not it is goodbye to a twenty year+ hobby.

Yes Steedeel, always prefer the physical copy in my collection if I can get it, Always. Hopefully you don't leave this great hobby. It is one of my passions and hope to continue for years.

Sarah