"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[scragham]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

Although, in defense of some... and any insider that denies this is straight-up lying... this format war was nothing if not extremely fluid. There are things that were predicted to happen (by proponents of both formats) that changed (and I know that for a fact). Actions that were set in motion were diverted by various forces. Decisions were reversed. Sometimes things were misunderstood. Unfortunately, some basically good people with some solid information were made to be liars simply by virtue of the way things often change. It doesn't change the outcome of all this, but you should always be careful of how you label others because you often don't have the entire story. Certainly Bill has fought this. I'm sure he'd tell you that things he hears from his (solid) sources change so frequently that he often gets nervous printing it.

the bolded may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that there was fairly convincing evidence of a deliberate pattern of deception and lies from the red camp's supporters and "insiders."

[Brad Ley]

Originally Posted by scragham

the bolded may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that there was fairly convincing evidence of a deliberate pattern of deception and lies from the red camp's supporters and "insiders."

Well I'm not going to defend any one's motives, but just know that over the past two years, there has been enough deception and misrepresentation on all sides (whether intentional or not) that I'm surprised anyone believes ANYTHING anymore. Remember all the reports that the PS3 was going to get DTS-MA last year? There's every reason to believe that was true, but somewhere along the way that changed for whatever reason. Penton is a stand up guy, but even some of the information he gets can change at a moment's notice. If he says something and then there is a change, I don't think you can hold him accountable for changes in decisions made outside of his control. I'm just saying it's bad to throw stones when you don't have to concern yourself with facts. It's even worse to throw stones when you know some of what was reported was true. I think with regard to some people, the worst you could say about them is that they weren't very judicious about being patient and seeing how these things played out before running out to report what they knew. Not everybody, but certainly some.

[scragham]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

Well I'm not going to defend any one's motives, but just know that over the past two years, there has been enough deception and misrepresentation on all sides (whether intentional or not) that I'm surprised anyone believes ANYTHING anymore. Remember all the reports that the PS3 was going to get DTS-MA last year? There's every reason to believe that was true, but somewhere along the way that changed for whatever reason. Penton is a stand up guy, but even some of the information he gets can change at a moment's notice. If he says something and then there is a change, I don't think you can hold him accountable for changes in decisions made outside of his control. I'm just saying it's bad to throw stones when you don't have to concern yourself with facts. It's even worse to throw stones when you know some of what was reported was true. I think with regard to some people, the worst you could say about them is that they weren't very judicious about being patient and seeing how these things played out before running out to report what they knew. Not everybody, but certainly some.

you're being so vague, it's hard to know what to think, but if you're seriously attempting to equate the track record of someone like penton, maxpower, or paid with the likes of a-rat...

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

There's every reason to believe that was true, but somewhere along the way that changed for whatever reason. Penton is a stand up guy, but even some of the information he gets can change at a moment's notice. If he says something and then there is a change, I don't think you can hold him accountable for changes in decisions made outside of his control. I'm just saying it's bad to throw stones when you don't have to concern yourself with facts. It's even worse to throw stones when you know some of what was reported was true. I think with regard to some people, the worst you could say about them is that they weren't very judicious about being patient and seeing how these things played out before running out to report what they knew. Not everybody, but certainly some.

I think another difference is that Paid and Max kept their "predictions" to the areas in which they were involved (when NDA did not apply). Penton has been able to be correct and break many news stories, but he wasn't predicting things vaguely. He was giving us specific on the fly info, before major publications, and with knowledge of the other plans in place. If things changed, he was able to update, FIRST. THAT is the definition of an insider. If things change and you can't tell everyone until its public, you aren't ON the inside...you're passing on hearsay. Being able to provide bad news, as our insiders have done, is perhaps more important to credibility than pontificating on positive developments as stated above.

blu-ray.com's insiders are a cut above, that's for sure.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by scragham

the bolded may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that there was fairly convincing evidence of a deliberate pattern of deception and lies from the red camp's supporters and "insiders."

The whole extremely vicious viral marketing campaign by the red side, which we all know existed, is by itself I think more than enough to make any claim that both sides were equally bad frankly absurd.

[Brad Ley]

Originally Posted by scragham

you're being so vague, it's hard to know what to think, but if you're seriously attempting to equate the track record of someone like penton, maxpower, or paid with the likes of a-rat...

I think you're reading more insidiousness in what I wrote than is actually there. I just sometimes see, "and isn't that the person who promised so and so? What happened to that?" and I happen to know that so and so was true when it was reported but things eventually changed. It's just unfortunate that truth was a major casualty in this format war ON BOTH SIDES.

So, all I'm saying is make sure if you are going to call someone out as a liar that you're absolutely 100% sure that they are lying (which unfortunately leaves out about 99.98% of the people posting on any of the forums).

Originally Posted by Slec

If things changed, he was able to update, FIRST. THAT is the definition of an insider. If things change and you can't tell everyone until its public, you aren't ON the inside...you're passing on hearsay.

Agree 100%. As I said, I think the thing that got some people in trouble was the tendency to rush out and tell people what they had been told before what ever it was happened to be finalized. Penton is seasoned and professional enough to know what is ready for public consumption and what is still gestating.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

...I happen to know that so and so was true when it was reported but things eventually changed....

With respect, until your insider credentials have been verified, this statement has little credibility.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by scragham

you're being so vague, it's hard to know what to think, but if you're seriously attempting to equate the track record of someone like penton, maxpower, or paid with the likes of a-rat...

Wrt the poster who is making these claims, as Penton might say, cherchez the posting history. Last time I did that, I found a pretty consistent pattern of slamming the PS3 as a BD player in comparison to other players. What the significance of that pattern is, I don't know, but I think it might be relevant. . .

[scragham]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

I think you're reading more insidiousness in what I wrote than is actually there. I just sometimes see, "and isn't that the person who promised so and so? What happened to that?" and I happen to know that so and so was true when it was reported but things eventually changed. It's just unfortunate that truth was a major casualty in this format war ON BOTH SIDES.

So, all I'm saying is make sure if you are going to call someone out as a liar that you're absolutely 100% sure that they are lying (which unfortunately leaves out about 99.98% of the people posting on any of the forums).

there is no doubt that some of the enthusiasts on the blue side went a little buck wild with hearsay, and parroted it like fact, however:

1) our insiders, if a bit grumpy at times, did not exhibit the pattern of "distortion of truthiness" and outright lying that the "insiders" for the red side did (reference: multiple statements by a-rat).

2) our enthusiasts/fanboys rarely took the level of absolute bullshit to the extreme levels that the red ants did.

methinks that perhaps YOU are seeing a bit more insidiousness on "our" side. whatever side you're on, i don't think it's mine.

[neo_reloaded]

Can't we just let this go? It seems silly to play internet police every time someone on a different forum says something bad about Blu-ray. I like to think we can be more mature than that.

[Brad Ley]

Originally Posted by RUR

With respect, until your insider credentials have been verified, this statement has little credibility.

Fair enough. I'm not out to persuade anyone of anything, other than consideration.

Originally Posted by patrick99

Wrt the poster who is making these claims, as Penton might say, cherchez the posting history. Last time I did that, I found a pretty consistent pattern of slamming the PS3 as a BD player in comparison to other players. What the significance of that pattern is, I don't know, but I think it might be relevant. . .

I only said that I thought the BD30 had a slightly sharper picture than the PS3. An opinion shared by many others. You got all bent out of shape because you couldn't see it. So now everyone has to agree with you that the PS3 is heaven sent or they're a rabble-rouser?

Originally Posted by scragham

there is no doubt that some of the enthusiasts on the blue side went a little buck wild with hearsay, and parroted it like fact, however:

1) our insiders, if a bit grumpy at times, did not exhibit the pattern of "distortion of truthiness" and outright lying that the "insiders" for the red side did (reference: multiple statements by a-rat).

2) our enthusiasts/fanboys rarely took the level of absolute bullshit to the extreme levels that the red ants did.

methinks that perhaps YOU are seeing a bit more insidiousness on "our" side. whatever side you're on, i don't think it's mine.

Alright,
1) I'm not really casting aspersions at any of the actual insiders.
and
2) I agree that there is some absolute bullshit that was hurled around and a lot of people (again, on both sides) ended a lot of sentences with ""
Beatboy took a pretty good "beating" from people for saying things that failed to materialize, yet I know (and don't worry RUR, no one has to believe me) that he was being truthful at that time, only to have details change after the fact.

And regarding which "side I'm on," it happens to be my side. The side that enjoys buying every Blu-ray title I can get my hands on. I can't understand living under the constant paranoia that my Blu world could be infiltrated. If you can't enjoy Blu-ray without being able to balance that with the misery of someone who might like HD-DVD, then I have to question how strong your love of Blu-ray actually is. Just enjoy yourself and stop worrying so much about others...

That's good advice for me as well.

Originally Posted by neo reloaded

Can't we just let this go? It seems silly to play internet police every time someone on a different forum says something bad about Blu-ray. I like to think we can be more mature than that.

What he said^

[scragham]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

2) I agree that there is some absolute bullshit that was hurled around and a lot of people (again, on both sides) ended a lot of sentences with ""
Beatboy took a pretty good "beating" from people for saying things that failed to materialize, yet I know (and don't worry RUR, no one has to believe me) that he was being truthful at that time, only to have details change after the fact.

this would be why beatboy was never considered an "insider" by any site.

And regarding which "side I'm on," it happens to be my side. The side that enjoys buying every Blu-ray title I can get my hands on. I can't understand living under the constant paranoia that my Blu world could be infiltrated. If you can't enjoy Blu-ray without being able to balance that with the misery of someone who might like HD-DVD, then I have to question how strong your love of Blu-ray actually is. Just enjoy yourself and stop worrying so much about others...

sigh. and yet more self-righteousness re: not gloating over HD DVD's demise. when did i ever gloat about HD DVD and the misfortune of stupid red ants? i'm merely calling them out (rightfully) for spewing meadow muffins.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by Brad Ley

Fair enough. I'm not out to persuade anyone of anything, other than consideration.

and when I consider the track records of Penton and RG, which is how this discussion began, I find that Penton's ability to make accurate predictions despite the ebb and flow of the behind the scenes events which you describe, is far superior to Mr. George's.

[sj001]

Penton's track record is flawless, there is no reason at all to question it whatsoever. He doesn't make predictions, he speaks of FACTS.

[HeavyHitter]

Brad, are you still friends with Robert George?

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Brad, are you still friends with Robert George?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=34

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sj001

Penton's track record is flawless, there is no reason at all to question it whatsoever. He doesn't make predictions, he speaks of FACTS.

Actually, initially I got the runaround concerning a Target announcement but, “Carnac” pulled it out at the last moment before having to commit “hari-kari.”
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1459

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=349

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1487

Also, in a land far away (AVS) where I used to post regularly in thee ole days I posted that the pack-in for the initial PS3’s would be Talladega Nights on a BD50, which was incorrect. This information came from the highest of the high at SPE. On reflection, a couple of days later I asked him if indeed he was sure it would be on BD50 and he admitted that he just simply misspoke and that it would be on BD25.

I then opened a thread on AVS to announce a formal apology for the error in regards to the disc capacity……if it was important in some way to any readers.

Other than the above, yup, pretty much “flawless”, I’d say.
Thank you for the compliment.

[Penton-Man]

^
P.S.
Personally, I don’t believe that particular title (T.N.) with its associated content needed anything more than a BD25 anyway……..

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^
P.S.
Personally, I don’t believe that particular title (T.N.) with its associated content needed anything more than a BD25 anyway……..

Well maybe you were half right.

The PS3 pack-in is a movie only with no extras and DD 5.1 on BD25.

When they actually released it a few weeks later it was the extended cut with numerous extras, PCM 5.1, and on a BD50.

So maybe SPE at the last second decided not to pack the official release version.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well maybe you were half right.

The PS3 pack-in is a movie only with no extras and DD 5.1 on BD25.

When they actually released it a few weeks later it was the extended cut with numerous extras, PCM 5.1, and on a BD50.

So maybe SPE at the last second decided not to pack the official release version.

No, they didn’t change their mind.
He simply misspoke because at the time of the conversation we were discussing things of greater importance than the pack-in for the PS3. That subject just came up for a fleeting moment (actually seconds) during the course of the conversation.

I think if you check the back cover, it says something like “For Promotional Use Only”.
A slew of them were produced clearly intended for that purpose, i.e. a freebie with the PS3.

P.S. #1
My Arsenal lost today.
However, the match was English football at its finest.
Kudos to Chelsea.