Ask questions to Sigma Designs insider "kjack"

[tvted]

kjack,

Could you please clarify something for me re 1.1 Final Profile players, please?

I understand that for a complete audio experience with PIP, both streams *have* to be decoded and mixed in the player. You earlier stated that it would be dependent on the DSP power whether a lossless stream would be downsampled.

My current question is, would this new mixed output be presented as LPCM or would the player manufacturer have the choice of re-encoding the mixed primary and secondary stream to DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD?

I ask because the Panasonic BD30 is spec'd as 1.1 yet doesn't appear to provide LPCM. http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...702#tabsection

Since an AVR is not necessarily able to apply DSP post-pro (Dolby Pro Logic IIx specifically) to bitstream but would be fine with LPCM, it affects decisions to be made on AVR's/BD player combos.

ted

[kjack]

Originally Posted by tvted

I understand that for a complete audio experience with PIP, both streams *have* to be decoded and mixed in the player. You earlier stated that it would be dependent on the DSP power whether a lossless stream would be downsampled.

My current question is, would this new mixed output be presented as LPCM or would the player manufacturer have the choice of re-encoding the mixed primary and secondary stream to DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD?

The mixed output would have be output from the player as

- LPCM via HDMI
- LPCM via analog outputs
- LPCM encoded to DD or DTS via SPDIF output. This DD or DTS bitstream could also be via HDMI although that is not popular.

There is no encoding to DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD in the players as it is too CPU intensive.

[WickyWoo]

I still have no idea why HD DVD did that, re-encoding things to vanilla DTS for the optical out

[kjack]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

I still have no idea why HD DVD did that, re-encoding things to vanilla DTS for the optical out

The CE companies like to have all audio/video outputs active so no matter how a consumer hooks it up, they get audio/video. Might not be ideal, but it's there so the consumer knows the box is working. Reduces support cost and returns.

To ship 5.1 channels over SPDIF, you have to pretty much use just DD or DTS to ensure maximum compatibility with AV receivers.

[hollywoodguy]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

I still have no idea why HD DVD did that, re-encoding things to vanilla DTS for the optical out

How else are you going to get in-player mixed multi-channel audio over optical? Doesn't the Panasonic BD-30 mix to DD in that case? Same principal.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by kjack

The mixed output would have be output from the player as

- LPCM via HDMI
- LPCM via analog outputs
- LPCM encoded to DD or DTS via SPDIF output. This DD or DTS bitstream could also be via HDMI although that is not popular.

There is no encoding to DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD in the players as it is too CPU intensive.

Is this a least-common-denominator decision, then, Keith?

In other words, if the audio track with the PiP stream is DD 5.1, then you can't get better than DD 5.1 output?

Or is it theoretically possible for a player to decode a LPCM main audio track and mix it with a DD 2.0 or DD 5.1 PiP track and still output the net audio stream as LPCM 5.1?

[dialog_gvf]

Keith,

You've probably seen this:

DTS HD Master design flaw damages gear...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620

Can you confirm whether this is a non-issue for Sigma Design chip decoding?

Gary

[kjack]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Is this a least-common-denominator decision, then, Keith?

In other words, if the audio track with the PiP stream is DD 5.1, then you can't get better than DD 5.1 output?

Or is it theoretically possible for a player to decode a LPCM main audio track and mix it with a DD 2.0 or DD 5.1 PiP track and still output the net audio stream as LPCM 5.1?

Whatever the main audio track is, it is decoded to LPCM. Whatever the secondary audio track is, it is decoded to LPCM. Everything is converted to a common sample rate and mixed. The LPCM result is then used as previously indicated.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

You've probably seen this:

DTS HD Master design flaw damages gear...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620

Can you confirm whether this is a non-issue for Sigma Design chip decoding?

Gary

Thanks, I passed the info along to engineering....

[jangofett]

kjack,

Recently there was some news about Sony along with another company patenting a process that would make the blue-lasers smaller for BD players, and probably reduce the size of the players. My question is concerning whether Sony has the intellectual rights or partial rights to this process, and whether Sony has been selling intellectual property so that other companies would be able to (hopefully) make cheap players.

Thanks.

And if you absolutely cannot awnser this, could you possibly give me a time in the future when you might be able to awnser? A raincheck? :-) thanks

[CaptainBli]

Sorry I missed the request for the features as well. So far All the features I read here would be great but it is missing one.

I think BD players need to have better parental controls like ClearPlay.
clearplay.com/about.aspx

Any chance this will come about in the players Keith?

[milou6]

You can't be serious? Having someone with no involvement in the film censor out content based on their own moral code? This is the opposite of the intent of BD, which is to present the film in truest fidelity to the original.

Originally Posted by CaptainBli

Sorry I missed the request for the features as well. So far All the features I read here would be great but it is missing one.

I think BD players need to have better parental controls like ClearPlay.
clearplay.com/about.aspx

Any chance this will come about in the players Keith?

[CaptainBli]

Originally Posted by milou6

You can't be serious? Having someone with no involvement in the film censor out content based on their own moral code? This is the opposite of the intent of BD, which is to present the film in truest fidelity to the original.

Does everyone have the same tastes? I understand that you probably would not appreciate this feature. But I enjoy watching movies just as much as the next person. I fully enjoy the quality of my BD system. I don't enjoy the language that is very offensive to me. I do not ask everyone to be forced to watch the way I would prefer to watch it. I only ask that I be given a choice instead of being offended everytime I wish to watch a movie.

People would that I not watch a movie if it offends me. I can only offer in this defense, that I am entitled to be able to watch, read, or look at any art supplied by any artist, that has been put out for public display, just as any other person on this planet. And I am further entitled to do so any way I please without the artist telling me how I must. Do you truly expect every reader of any literature to fully read every single word that is written in the peice? I am sure that speed reading is still legal and encouraged in our society. But the artist, who writes the piece, may be upset that the speed reader did not get the entirety of their work.

I only ask that I can watch films the way I want to watch them. If that is at twice the speed, 3/4 the speed, or with certain segments taken out, I should have that right. I do not force my rights on other people.

The actual movie is not modified and can be viewed in any manner pleasing to the observer. The artist may complain, but he has offered his work widely to the public. In any form of art, you Seriously can't believe that the entire audience will recieve the work the same way.

I could go on but don't want you to think that I am a Zealot, even though I may be. Please take it with a grain of salt for better flavor.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by CaptainBli

And I am further entitled to do so any way I please without the artist telling me how I must.

No, you're not (personal commissions excluded).

[jon s]

Originally Posted by kjack

Thanks, I passed the info along to engineering....

it appears that Onkyo and Yamaha uses TI's DTS decoders and Denon uses Analog Devices DTS decoders... dunno about Sony, they could be using a DSP of their own.

[irfoton]

Originally Posted by milou6

You can't be serious? Having someone with no involvement in the film censor out content based on their own moral code? This is the opposite of the intent of BD, which is to present the film in truest fidelity to the original.

I don't see this as a problem. If the original film is intact as well, why do you care?

[kjack]

Originally Posted by jangofett

Recently there was some news about Sony along with another company patenting a process that would make the blue-lasers smaller for BD players, and probably reduce the size of the players. My question is concerning whether Sony has the intellectual rights or partial rights to this process, and whether Sony has been selling intellectual property so that other companies would be able to (hopefully) make cheap players. And if you absolutely cannot answer this,

Sorry, can't answer this..

could you possibly give me a time in the future when you might be able to answer? A raincheck? :-)

how long are NDAs valid for...5 or 10 years...

[kjack]

Originally Posted by milou6

You can't be serious? Having someone with no involvement in the film censor out content based on their own moral code?

There are several levels the viewer can select from.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by jon s

it appears that Onkyo and Yamaha uses TI's DTS decoders and Denon uses Analog Devices DTS decoders... dunno about Sony, they could be using a DSP of their own.

Turns out it is a decoder implementation problem. Our decoder implementation doesn't have the issue...

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by CaptainBli

<snip>
I only ask that I can watch films the way I want to watch them. If that is at twice the speed, 3/4 the speed, or with certain segments taken out, I should have that right. I do not force my rights on other people.

The actual movie is not modified and can be viewed in any manner pleasing to the observer. The artist may complain, but he has offered his work widely to the public. In any form of art, you Seriously can't believe that the entire audience will recieve the work the same way.
<snip>

(Emphasis added by me.)

As long as you are the *only one* watching it, then that would be fine by me. And as long as you don't modify the original content on the disk, it is OK by me.

However, would you show "your version" of the movie to your friends, spouse or children as if it were the artist's version, or would you dutifully explain that you were removing various scenes/content, specifically state what you were removing and honestly why (that it offends you and may not be offensive to the vast majority of viewers) thus giving them full notice and a choice of watching your version or not? If you're not intending to do this then you are subverting the artist's work and intent. If you're not intending to do this then you should not buy it, and you definitely should not be showing your preferred version to others.

Sure their are people who read the first few chapters of a book then skip to the las couple chapters, but I don't want the book edited to their preferences handed to me as if it were the true book.

Sorry to hijack your thread, kjack, but I've read about too many "parties" being thrown across the U.S. where they show the "preferred" version to family/friends/neighbors as if the film were "supposed" to be that way. It's not.