Oppo BDP-103/105/103D/105D Networked Universal Blu-ray Players

[growler]

Originally Posted by Gelli

your location tells me nothing except where you're located.

John AV's location states he is an Oppo Beta Tester. He has been very helpful to many on this forum.

[pitchman]

Thanks, KC for the detailed explanation. I suspect you're right on the money as far as this goes. I'm going to give OPPO a call tomorrow and hopefully get confirmation. I have to say I'm a bit bummed if this is the way it works. I specifically picked the 103 because I wanted a universal player. If OPPO support can't help, then this is a compromised universal player, at least for me.

[Movie Man Don]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

Movie Man Don - I believe with your setup if both displays are turned on (making both HDMI connections from the Oppo active) you will only get video to the Epson. If you never use both displays at the same time, and their HDMI ports go inactive when shut off, then everything should be fine. If you switch to Dual Display and the Insignia is on with its HDMI port active, then the Epson will only receive 720P (assuming you have Auto resolution selected). If the Insignia is off and its HDMI port is inactive, then the Epson should receive 1080P. You can't send 720P to the Insignia and 1080P to the Epson at the same time regardless of the settings.

I hope that helps. The functioning of the Split A/V/Dual Display feature is pretty complex, but I think it's actually very well thought out and implemented.

Thanks for that insight.
Makes sense to me. I only use the monitor to cue up the beginning of the movie to coincide with curtain run and light dimming so I'll just turn the monitor OFF after the show gets on the screen. That should give me a 1080P to the Epson.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by pitchman

Thanks, KC for the detailed explanation. I suspect you're right on the money as far as this goes. I'm going to give OPPO a call tomorrow and hopefully get confirmation. I have to say I'm a bit bummed if this is the way it works. I specifically picked the 103 because I wanted a universal player. If OPPO support can't help, then this is a compromised universal player, at least for me.

The key problem with recent AVR's is that your non-selected HDMI inputs are kept "live" now. If your using split mode where the player senses that it has two active connections its going to behave in the manner it was designed to do which is video principally out HDMI-1 and audio out of HDMI-2. Due to a limitation in the Marvell QDEO K2GH HDMI transmitter, it is not possible to send SACD through both HDMI outputs as DSD.

In the early interview between Gene DellaSala of Audioholics and Nathan Plain of Oppo Digital many of these aspects were discussed. See Oppo BDP-103 & BDP-105 Blu-ray Q&A Interview - Audioholics - September 24, 2012

Q: How do the two HDMI outputs work in conjunction with the video processor and each other?

A: The BDP-103 and BDP-105 employ a two-step video processing approach that utilizes video processing algorithms implemented on the main dual-core SoC and the latest generation of Marvell’s Qdeo video processor. The HDMI 1 output is driven by the Qdeo video processor while the HDMI 2 output is direct from the main SoC. The main SoC performs video decoding, de-interlacing, scaling and 2D-to-3D conversion, and the Qdeo video processor can perform further enhancements such as 4Kx2K, noise reduction, contrast and color enhancements.

Performing video processing inside the player can result in superior picture quality. When playing discs or streaming online video, the player has the full knowledge of the source material’s properties, such as resolution, frame rate, encoding, and compression level. This information is then used to configure the video processors to optimally handle the content. A/V receivers and televisions all have some level of video processing capability built-in. However, these devices are made to accommodate a wide variety of input signal and formats ranging from composite video to HDMI. It is unlikely that the processing modes will be fully optimized for the content. Users will be able to get the best possible video quality out of our player's internal video processor by setting the player's HDMI output to the desired output resolution.

Q: Will both HDMI outputs support full resolution simultaneously and are they independently scalable?

A: Yes, both HDMI outputs can support full resolution simultaneously provided that the display devices connected to the two HDMI ports can both support the full resolution. The two outputs can output different resolutions but are not independently scalable. As described in the answer to the previous question, the HDMI 1 output is driven by the Qdeo video processor and the HDMI 2 output is direct from the main SoC. In order to make it simple for customers to properly set up the player, we offer a choice of “Split A/V” or “Dual Display” for configuration the two HDMI outputs. When “Split A/V” is selected, HDMI 1 is the primary video port and HDMI 2 is the primary audio port. HDMI 1 outputs video at the highest possible resolution and mutes audio. HDMI 2 outputs video at a resolution that can sufficiently carry the best audio. This mode is intended for users who connect HDMI 1 to a projector and HDMI 2 to an A/V receiver. When “Dual Display” is selected, HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 take a “best effort” strategy and output an audio/video signal that is commonly compatible with the downstream devices connected to both ports. This mode is intended for simultaneously supporting two screens. When only one of the HDMI ports is in use, the “Split A/V” or “Dual Display” setting is not applicable.

Q: Do the players have the option to convert SACD to PCM via HDMI out rather than transmitting it as DSD?

A: Yes, for SACD playback we offer a choice of transmitting the audio signal as native DSD or converting it to high resolution PCM. The A/V receiver must be able to support DSD, otherwise the player will force a conversion to PCM so the music does not become static noise. DSD output is only available over the HDMI 2 port. The HDMI transmitter in the Qdeo video processor that drives the HDMI 1 port does not support DSD audio.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by pitchman

Thanks, KC for the detailed explanation. I suspect you're right on the money as far as this goes. I'm going to give OPPO a call tomorrow and hopefully get confirmation. I have to say I'm a bit bummed if this is the way it works. I specifically picked the 103 because I wanted a universal player. If OPPO support can't help, then this is a compromised universal player, at least for me.

If I'm interpreting correctly you have some reason that you want to run HDMI 1 through your AVR before going to your display, making the direct HDMI 1 connection to your display undesirable, you also want to be able to output DSD to your AVR which necessitates the additional connection of HDMI 2. I highly suspect that you'd be able to do exactly what you want without issue by simply switching "Dual HDMI Output" to "Dual Display" rather than "Split A/V". I think with the configuration you've described the downmixing issue I mentioned is unlikely. Oppo support should be able to give you a better answer on this than me though.

Maybe I'm interpreting "universal" differently than you, but I don't see how this has anything to do with the player being "universal". I take "universal" to mean that the player will play all types of digital optical 5 inch discs, rather than only Blu-ray discs, only CDs, or only DVDs, etc.

Further, I can see the video switching from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 in order to playback properly. This is pretty easily detected, since there is a perceptible loss in video quality.

I highly suspect this is not the Denon re-sourcing the video from HDMI 2 rather than 1. If that occurred, I would think it would also re-source the audio from HMDI 2 at the same time restoring your sound. The picture quality difference between HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the Oppo is very very subtle if perceptible at all. It sounds more like the Denon may be re-processing or re-scaling the video resulting in the perceptible loss in video quality that you're describing. If that is the case, that is another reason to run HDMI 1 directly from the Oppo to your display.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

If I'm interpreting correctly you have some reason that you want to run HDMI 1 through your AVR before going to your display, making the direct HDMI 1 connection to your display undesirable, you also want to be able to output DSD to your AVR which necessitates the additional connection of HDMI 2. I highly suspect that you'd be able to do exactly what you want without issue by simply switching "Dual HDMI Output" to "Dual Display" rather than "Split A/V". I think with the configuration you've described the downmixing issue I mentioned is unlikely. Oppo support should be able to give you a better answer on this than me though.

Maybe I'm interpreting "universal" differently than you, but I don't see how this has anything to do with the player being "universal". I take "universal" to mean that the player will play all types of digital optical 5 inch discs, rather than only Blu-ray discs, only CDs, or only DVDs, etc.

Until Oppo provides a HDMI-1 only or a HDMI-2 only, rather then Split or Dual modes. The player is not going to function as he expects, which is why I provided the quotes on the previous post.

As for a Universal player we have customers that expect a lot more then simply being able to play all physical media.

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

I highly suspect this is not the Denon re-sourcing the video from HDMI 2 rather than 1. If that occurred, I would think it would also re-source the audio from HMDI 2 at the same time restoring your sound. The picture quality difference between HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 on the Oppo is very very subtle if perceptible at all. It sounds more like the Denon may be re-processing or re-scaling the video resulting in the perceptible loss in video quality that you're describing. If that is the case, that is another reason to run HDMI 1 directly from the Oppo to your display.

A AVR-3313ci should have its internal video processing turned off when using a BDP-103 for your source. Video Conversion = Off, I/P Scaling = Off.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Until Oppo provides a HDMI-1 only or a HDMI-2 only, rather then Split or Dual modes. The player is not going to function as he expects, which is why I provided the quotes on the previous post.

You've lost me on this one. The BDP-103 automatically functions in an HDMI-1 only or HDMI-2 only mode any time only one HDMI cable is connected. What would be the purpose of providing a manual selection of this, which equates to connecting an HDMI cable and feeding it no signal or information?

A AVR-3313ci should have its internal video processing turned off when using a BDP-103 for your source. Video Conversion = Off, I/P Scaling = Off.

Agreed.

Although he hasn't specifically stated it, it sure sounds like his only need to use the HDMI-2 output is to have the ability to send DSD to his AVR, which cannot be done from HDMI-1.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

You've lost me on this one. The BDP-103 automatically functions in an HDMI-1 only or HDMI-2 only mode any time only one HDMI cable is connected. What would be the purpose of providing a manual selection of this, which equates to connecting an HDMI cable and feeding it no signal or information?

Agreed

Although he hasn't specifically stated it, it sure sounds like his only need to use the HDMI-2 output is to have the ability to send DSD to his AVR, which cannot be done from HDMI-1.

What I am discussing is having the 103/105 being able act like it has only one live connection even though two cables are connected to a modern AVR where any connection is live, a rather interesting suggestion against future FW. To do that Oppo would have to create two more operating modes then what exists now on the 103/105.

[Gelli]

Originally Posted by growler

John AV's location states he is an Oppo Beta Tester. He has been very helpful to many on this forum.

i misread what he wrote.

[Tech-UK]

Do the line of Oppo players up to and including the 105 support xvYCC?

[pitchman]

Many thanks to KC and JohnAV for your detailed replies to my original question! After several hours of fiddling around, as suggested, I simply took the output from HDMI 1 and connected it directly to my ES8000 and...voila! The player now works perfectly. I don't know why this never occurred to me. For some reason, I had it stuck in my head that I must plug everything into the AVR and then output to the TV from there.

Now, I get correct audio from any source when bitstreaming to the Denon, plus I get the full benefit of the superb Marvell chip on the video side. As long as I remember to switch sources on the TV when I want to watch something on the OPPO, I'm all set.

Now, I am a happy camper!

BTW, what I meant about it being a "compromised" universal player is that when I had both HDMI's plugged into the Denon and selected dual display (and after making all of the required handshaking adjustments to the player and AVR), the video performance still took a hit. Playback was spastic during startup and glitchy at times when performing other basic functions. The way I had it set up before, it did what it claimed it would do, just not very well. Like I say, now it works perfectly and I am thrilled with it.

Thanks again for all of the help!

[KC-Technerd]

^ Great! I'm glad that worked for you. I believe that is really the intended and preferred connection method when using Split A/V.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Do the line of Oppo players up to and including the 105 support xvYCC?

No.

I noticed some of the HDTV's had that option and when you enabled deep color 30 bits on the BDP-103/105 and enabled xvYCC on the HDTV, you would see a bit less banding though.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

No.

Thank you.

[JohnAV]

OPPO Digital Now also offers the BDP-105 in Silver:



Just added to their web site.

If you look at knowledge base against various players they now have them sorta by category.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by growler

John AV's location states he is an Oppo Beta Tester. He has been very helpful to many on this forum.

He can be very helpful at times, though he posts up far too many emoticons when he has a different opinion or disagrees with things .
Besides he wasn't very helpful with my problem regarding hdmi handshake issues with the 93, which only started after installing the official firmware released in March last year, and he also sneered at my comment (which included yet another trademark emoticon) when I just merely mentioned that IMO I would like to see a silver model Oppo, saying that it's not popular enough for Oppo to produce, however Oppo only months after my comment are now offering the 105 in silver

[Gelli]

Originally Posted by growler

John AV's location states he is an Oppo Beta Tester. He has been very helpful to many on this forum.

a few years ago i was offered by OPPO to become a beta tester ;
i did not accept and thus i can't brag about it. ;

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Gelli

a few years ago i was offered by OPPO to become a beta tester ;
i did not accept and thus i can't brag about it. ;

That was probably the EAP (Early Adoption Program) program with the BDP-83 testing where we had multiple rounds of testing. First EAP round consisted of group of 50 participants, second EAP round was with 300 participants, when Oppo was trying to draw consensus on whether the BDP-83 was operating well enough for general release. The beta testers are a small group that interacts closely with Oppo Digital that receives the player very early when operation and software are not fully functional.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

He can be very helpful at times, though he posts up far too many emoticons when he has a different opinion or disagrees with things .
Besides he wasn't very helpful with my problem regarding hdmi handshake issues with the 93, which only started after installing the official firmware released in March last year, and he also sneered at my comment (which included yet another trademark emoticon) when I just merely mentioned that IMO I would like to see a silver model Oppo, saying that it's not popular enough for Oppo to produce, however Oppo only months after my comment are now offering the 105 in silver

None of us expected a silver version, especially after EU crowd was more or less told it wouldn't be ever available. In the states black is much more common with AV gear then silver. I suspect the BDP-105 quantities sold allowed for a silver model compared to sales of the BDP-95?

[JohnAV]

Oppo UK has now followed up with a silver model of the BDP-105EU.