Zack Snyder's 'Man of Steel'

[RakuMon]

Originally Posted by earmullet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0

I'm sure I'm late to the game on this one. But some are people complaining about the ending of Man Of Steel.

Zod dies at the end of Superman II, and Superman kills him.

Anyone see Doc Jensen skewer the critics who complain about Superman killing Zod? It's a pretty entertaining read:

http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,2064...711334,00.html

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by mattymoron

I don't get it, either. There's plenty of funny moments throughout the movie, but, I guess if it doesn't have someone cracking a joke every five minutes like Iron Man 3 then it has 'no humor'.

it isn't that. I just watched Batman Begins over the weekend again. I don't think anyone would disagree that Batman is much darker than Superman yet there was humour in it - even little things like Ra's seeing Batman in his suit for the first time and saying how he took the theatricality too literally or Bruce telling Alfred to keep the guests entertained by telling them that joke he knows (how long is that joke?). there were a lot of little things like that which didn't break the moment but gave you a little chuckle. When I watched Man of Steel, I didn't see a whole lot of that. Sure there was Superman telling Lois to stand back and the army officer at the end saying she thinks Superman was hot but even those kind of fell flat - why didn't Superman just take a few more steps away from Lois before he took off? you don't need a laugh a minute but a little more humour would have helped.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Not only that, Zod and the crew were as weak as humans, and Superman STILL killed them. For shame!

Actually, he did not.

In the original release, they were shown thrown at the bottom of the fortress (into a cloud of Dry Ice acutally), their fate being largely unknown (they ended in freezing water, but in their Kryptonian outfits, so who knows?) and "some" people assuming them dead. The lack of any resolution on this cemented that idea in many, but they were never "Actually" killed for sure in that version.

In the extended cut, using scenes shot by Donner before Lester took over, the trio of vilains (now human) are shown being arrested. Therefore not dead.

Last, in the script that was originally planned, and in the subsequent Donner Cut, Superman and Lois still throw them in freezing water below the fortress, but at the very end he repeats the move of Superman 1 (the ultimate Deus Ex Machina) by spinning the Earth back in time so that the vilains never escaped the phantom zone in the first place (ergo not killing them), and Lois not finding out who he is either.

Just thought I'd share those bits, given that they bring some light on a hotly debated subject it seems.

So, no, Superman did not kill Zod in Superman 2.

[jd_from_da_80s]

[Show spoiler]Only had two problems with the movie, when Clark stole the clothes & the ending. City blocks were literally flattened to dust, at least a dozen buildings destroyed to the point where they were uninhabitable, untold number of lives lost, but the last scene we get is Steve asking Lois & Jenny to a game. I thought Lois saying "Welcome to the Planet" was cute though. Also, Henry Cavill doesn't look like the clumsy Clark Kent of the Daily Planet. He's too hawt for that

As for Superman killing Zod, I have no problem with that, he didn't have a choice & it's not the first time he's killed. I know there was an uproar the first time he did kill in the comics but I think he's killed at least 2 more times before I stopped reading. I can't remember if they are canon or not though.

Problem is DC has never put him in a situation where he had to make hard choices. When has there ever been a time where his only option was to to kill? Either the aggressors were robots or there was always a way to freeze this character or send them to another dimension, or he just had to sing (WTF!!!) There was even a time where he was willing to kill but it that conveniently work out where nobody died.

He had to make a hard choice, he begged Zod to stop, Zod dared him to stop him. Granted he could have tried to fly away with Zod in tow or something but either he had to eventually let go of Zod & hold him in a headlock forever. It's about time Superman hardest decision in a movie didn't involve letting Lois know his secret. Zod's mission became destroying every human & there wasn't anything anybody born on this planet could have done about it.

Except Batman of course.

I loved it, gave it 4/5.

[makaveli21]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

it isn't that. I just watched Batman Begins over the weekend again. I don't think anyone would disagree that Batman is much darker than Superman yet there was humour in it - even little things like Ra's seeing Batman in his suit for the first time and saying how he took the theatricality too literally or Bruce telling Alfred to keep the guests entertained by telling them that joke he knows (how long is that joke?). there were a lot of little things like that which didn't break the moment but gave you a little chuckle. When I watched Man of Steel, I didn't see a whole lot of that. Sure there was Superman telling Lois to stand back and the army officer at the end saying she thinks Superman was hot but even those kind of fell flat - why didn't Superman just take a few more steps away from Lois before he took off? you don't need a laugh a minute but a little more humour would have helped.

I agree--I thought that when they attempted humor, it was pretty lame. How cliched are the pratfalls when trying to learn a new ability (flying, web slinging, etc.)? The comment from the army officer was predictable and not really funny. The joke with the sign about the accidents changing seemed like something from Naked Gun. It just didn't work or blend in as seamlessly as the aforementioned Batman Begins.

[Another_Dude]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Actually, he did not.

In the original release, they were shown thrown at the bottom of the fortress (into a cloud of Dry Ice acutally), their fate being largely unknown (they ended in freezing water, but in their Kryptonian outfits, so who knows?) and "some" people assuming them dead. The lack of any resolution on this cemented that idea in many, but they were never "Actually" killed for sure in that version.

In the extended cut, using scenes shot by Donner before Lester took over, the trio of vilains (now human) are shown being arrested. Therefore not dead.

Last, in the script that was originally planned, and in the subsequent Donner Cut, Superman and Lois still throw them in freezing water below the fortress, but at the very end he repeats the move of Superman 1 (the ultimate Deus Ex Machina) by spinning the Earth back in time so that the vilains never escaped the phantom zone in the first place (ergo not killing them), and Lois not finding out who he is either.

Just thought I'd share those bits, given that they bring some light on a hotly debated subject it seems.

So, no, Superman did not kill Zod in Superman 2.

You can write a thousand more words about this script or director or version or whatever. At the end of the day, the crowd that watched Superman II in the theater saw Superman kill Zod.

[makaveli21]

Originally Posted by jd_from_da_80s

[Show spoiler]Only had two problems with the movie, when Clark stole the clothes & the ending. City blocks were literally flattened to dust, at least a dozen buildings destroyed to the point where they were uninhabitable, untold number of lives lost, but the last scene we get is Steve asking Lois & Jenny to a game. I thought Lois saying "Welcome to the Planet" was cute though. Also, Henry Cavill doesn't look like the clumsy Clark Kent of the Daily Planet. He's too hawt for that

I forgot about

[Show spoiler]the clothes-stealing part. That didn't sit well with me for some reason.

[vega2K]

Can you image the rioting and looting and suspensions on this forum if they would have thrown in a spin the earth backwards to reverse time at the end if MoS???!!!!! Although it seems many of you would have preferred that...... Thank God the Donner take lost!

[Blu Warrior]

Originally Posted by vega2K

Can you image the rioting and looting and suspensions on this forum if they would have thrown in a spin the earth backwards to reverse time at the end if MoS???!!!!! Although it seems many of you would have preferred that...... Thank God the Donner take lost!

What does this mean?

[kurtlingle]

The Donner cut of S2 is the only one you can get on Netflix. Just watched it with my kids last week. MOS is def better, but both movies have merit.

Originally Posted by vega2K

Can you image the rioting and looting and suspensions on this forum if they would have thrown in a spin the earth backwards to reverse time at the end if MoS???!!!!! Although it seems many of you would have preferred that...... Thank God the Donner take lost!

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by makaveli21

I agree--I thought that when they attempted humor, it was pretty lame. How cliched are the pratfalls when trying to learn a new ability (flying, web slinging, etc.)? The comment from the army officer was predictable and not really funny. The joke with the sign about the accidents changing seemed like something from Naked Gun. It just didn't work or blend in as seamlessly as the aforementioned Batman Begins.

truth is the learning the new abilities didn't bother me as they were needed. even the crashing while learning to fly was okay as I know people would complain that all of a sudden he knows how to fly when he couldn't before(could have been worse - polar bears running away!). they could have been handled a lot worse for laughs. but yeah, the jokes just stood out too much compared to a movie like Batman Begins. that I blame on Goyer. look at Blade 3 and all the obvious jokes that just fall flat. I think when he has full say, his writing can become a little hammy but when he works with someone, they can pull back.

[ONE_DAY_AS_A_LION]

Originally Posted by Another_Dude

You can write a thousand more words about this script or director or version or whatever. At the end of the day, the crowd that watched Superman II in the theater saw Superman kill Zod.

Agreed! That's what I see on on cable every time they show Superman 2.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Another_Dude

You can write a thousand more words about this script or director or version or whatever. At the end of the day, the crowd that watched Superman II in the theater saw Superman kill Zod.

No. You see them disappearing in dry ice (supposed to represent the icy cold sea underneath the Fortress), with no idea of what is becoming of them.

What you imagine from there is irrelevant to the discussion, and in other versions of the movie it has been shown that they actually survived.

It's fine with me if you think Superman

[Show spoiler]killing Zod in MoS by breaking his neck on screen

is ok. But propagating lies about an older version of Superman II to try and justify an argument is not.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

No. You see them disappearing in dry ice (supposed to represent the icy cold sea underneath the Fortress), with no idea of what is becoming of them.

What you imagine from there is irrelevant to the discussion, and in other versions of the movie it has been shown that they actually survived.

It's fine with me if you think Superman

[Show spoiler]killing Zod in MoS by breaking his neck on screen

is ok. But propagating lies about an older version of Superman II to try and justify an argument is not.

They died. They lost their super powers. Even as a kid I knew that. Of course it was a ha ha let's laugh/funny way to kill them, but that's what happened. Between the super ruffie, killing Zod and the gang for laughs, punching the truck driver at the diner after gaining back his super powers, and ice cream gags, Superman II is a very disturbing film.

[West E]

never thought i'd hear Chris Cornell in a Superman film, that's for sure.

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

They died. They lost their super powers. Even as a kid I knew that. Of course it was a ha ha let's laugh/funny way to kill them, but that's what happened. Between the super ruffie, killing Zod and the gang for laughs, punching the truck driver at the diner after gaining back his super powers, and ice cream gags, Superman II is a very disturbing film.

+1 I agree

[klauswhereareyou]

Probably people in 1977 thought they'd never hear Supertramp in a Superman movie.

[West E]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Probably people in 1977 thought they'd never hear Supertramp in a Superman movie.

good point!

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

They died. They lost their super powers. Even as a kid I knew that. Of course it was a ha ha let's laugh/funny way to kill them, but that's what happened. Between the super ruffie, killing Zod and the gang for laughs, punching the truck driver at the diner after gaining back his super powers, and ice cream gags, Superman II is a very disturbing film.

I don't remember him punching the truck driver. The truck driver punched him and hurt his hand. Then clark made him dizzy and pushed him over the table (in what they obviously meant to be comical).

But I don't think we saw the truck driver land on the floor - so, there is a good chance he died from his fall.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Probably people in 1977 thought they'd never hear Supertramp in a Superman movie.

Or make references to current hit songs, i.e., Good Vibrations.