The Criterion Collection

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

We don't have to label her as a MPDG I've always kind of disliked that particular Nathan Rabin coinage. It's very limiting.

Oh, and I also find it limiting - As in the characters it describes that are one-dimensional and limited.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

I'm not telling you the actions are either right or wrong, or that you had to like them or not - I'm telling you the term 'socially conscious' doesn't apply.

I was originally talking about Demme's vision, not the character's specific world view. So, yes, I think it applies. Demme is commenting on our place in society, that is the gist of it. If you don't read the film that way, then so be it.
--------------------

The film is about somebody waking up (not unlike The Matrix). So this defitintion of socially conscious applies: "A subject with an awakened social consciousness explores alternatives to the dominant cultural viewpoint."

If you don't think that defines Charlie, then I'm sorry, because I do. Not much to debate over.

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I was originally talking about Demme's vision, not the character's specific world view. So, yes, I think it applies.

Well I've presented an argument against it, (No consequences for anti-social behavior, him leaving work has no suggestion of moral or ethical basis, and 100% to do with him just enjoying himself) you haven't presented one for it except to just say 'yes you think it does.'

Now if iScottie did this, you'd be all over him.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

Well I've presented an argument against it, (No consequences for anti-social behavior, him leaving work has no suggestion of moral or ethical basis, and 100% to do with him just enjoy himself) you haven't presented one for it except to just say 'yes you think it does.'

Now if iScottie did this, you'd be all over him.

I'm telling you: he undergoes a change, he becomes aware of his place in society. See my last post. If his actions are really that lamentable for you, again, I'm sorry, but them having fun doesn't automatically equate Anti social behavior. If you think they are in the wrong, NOTHING I can say will make you think otherwise.

Also, that's the whole point, he should shake things up. The damage done to him by staying in a lifeless and dull job is worse than whatever he does on the road. That human cost is greater, will always be greater than a few stolen objects and missed calls.

And as for that last bit...it seems as if you're trying to bait me. I'm sorry it just won't happen. This is getting kind of petty. It kind of seems like you wanted to vent over having a less than desirable viewing experience. Again, I'm sorry.

...and you are totally reading too much into an iScottie/abdrewes rivalry. We are fierce "kidders", so as someone not aware of our "inside joke", you are now fully aware. Scott's a great guy, able writer (see his Bling Ring review) and one of the best people to trade with/negotiate with here on the forum.

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I'm telling you: he undergoes a change, he becomes aware of his place in society. See my last post. If his actions are really that lamentable for you, again, I'm sorry. Fun doesn't equate Anti social behavior.

And as for that last bit...it seems as if you're trying to bait me. I'm sorry won't happen. This is getting kind of petty.

You edited that bit that actually responds to my points after I started responding. The post I quoted was the sum total of what was there when I started replying.

As for the last bit, I'm not trying to be petty, I'm trying to discuss the film. I playfully mentioned your constant prodding of iScottie - Sorry if you take that as an attack, it wasn't meant as one. Perhaps you were even unaware that you do it?

Just because we disagree about this film doesn't mean I have anything against you, I certainly don't - In fact you're one of my favourite posters in this thread.

[Edward J Grug III]

OK, you really need to stick with your posts once you post them ;P

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Also, that's the whole point, he should shake things up. The damage done to him by staying in a lifeless and dull job is worse than whatever he does on the road. That human cost is greater.

But only in a purely selfish, un-socially conscious way.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

You edited that bit that actually responds to my points after I started responding. The post I quoted was the sum total of what was there when I started replying.

As for the last bit, I'm not trying to be petty, I'm trying to discuss the film. I playfully mentioned your constant prodding of iScottie - Sorry if you take that as an attack, it wasn't meant as one. Perhaps you were even unaware that you do it?

Just because we disagree about this film doesn't mean I have anything against you, I certainly don't - In fact you're one of my favourite posters in this thread.

Edited my last post!

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

OK, you really need to stick with your posts once you post them ;P



But only in a purely selfish, un-socially conscious way.

Again, I don't think the actions are that bad, plus at that time, he hadnt gone though his awakening yet. Look at the conversation with the cashier later on in the film. Don't tell me that's not the look of a changed, more socially conscious fellow.

They do

[Edward J Grug III]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Again, I don't think the actions are that bad. Just a little playful is all.

[Show spoiler]She stole enough money to buy a car in cash from the liquor store.

Now maybe you are pretty well to do, but I have to chalk that up to more than just playful mischief! ;P

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by Edward J Grug III

[Show spoiler]She stole enough money to buy a car in cash from the liquor store.

Now maybe you are pretty well to do, but I have to chalk that up to more than just playful mischief! ;P

Lulu is just the catalyst for change, she herself does not need to be a saintly figure.

Now, Charlie undergoes a change does he not? So naturally at first he won't be the sterling ideal of SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS, but towards the end, I feel he really is. He is more open, personable, and much more considerate to those around him. Again, look at the conversation with the clerk (where he changes into the cheap clothes and sunglasses), that level of comfort and humanity would not have defined Charlie at the beginning.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by monorail91

Any thoughts on blind-buying Shoah? I'm thinking about it when the 50% off sale comes... I think the subject matter makes it almost essential viewing, plus at 9 hours it'd be great to be able to watch at my own pace (aka free of a rental period). Anybody who flat-out hates it, and why please?

Rental period? There's no "rental period" on HuluPlus, unless you think you won't get through it in an entire month. (Which is likely...)

It's not "bad", but Spielberg later stole most of the sweeping "essential" social thunder with Schindler's List, as Hollywood as that one may be.
This isn't just mere Ken Burns-type long, it's "Private journey of a filmmaker" long, which means we have to home-movie trudge along with the director following the trail, talking to the witnesses, traveling to the locations, etc. Heartfelt, yes, but it'll be long before three hours that you'll take the pledge and swear off blind-buying for life.

[jw007]

I myself did enjoy watching Something Wild, so thats all I have to say for now. Yes, I know this is a worthless posting, but I'm just giving approval for that movie. If I had ever gotten to writing about this film in my old university, I would have posted my essay here for all to see. It is a good film I might say.

[fdm]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Hey guys,

I wanted to leave you a quick note that there is a 2 for £10 sale at Amazon.UK.

[Show spoiler]There are some outstanding Artificial Eye releases (Wong Kar Wai and Andrzej Wajda's films are simply superb):

These are some terrific Region-Free releases/films:



And if you have a Region-Free player, I cannot recommend highly enough these Region-B "locked" titles (see below). If you end up getting Jerzy Skolimowski's film, I would also recommend adding to your collections Deep End, though you will have to pick up the regular edition now.



All Artificial Eye titles here:

Click me

Lastly, I wanted to wish all of you a Happy 4th

Pro-B

Katyn would be my top pick of those I've seen from those you've shown. I need to go back and watch Army Of Shadows again, it didn't quite hit me right at the time I suspect (was kind of underwhelmed), but I found Katyn to be far more engrossing.

The Big Picture was pretty interesting too (but probably not quite as much as the others pictured). May pick up Angels Of Evil and something else, not sure which. Still need to watch Ashes Of Time...

[merlinjones]

I'd love to see Criterion license Walt Disney's classic "Song of the South" (1946) for DVD/Blu - 70th anniversary is fast approaching.

-- with lots of extras including original and reissue trailers, Disneyland TV episode "The Joel Chandler Harris Story,'' animated Br'er Rabbit Nash 50's car commercials, etc. -- and why not the CD soundtrack album (also never available from the IP holder)?

I also seem to hazily recall a half-hour syndicated TV promo special with surviving cast/voices, animators (most gone now) interviews, etc. was made to support the 1980 (or 1987?) reissue.

[Edward J Grug III]

Sorry for the interruption there - Finished work, came home, putting baby to bed etc. (Now you are no doubt asleep)

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Lulu is just the catalyst for change, she herself does not need to be a saintly figure.

Now, Charlie undergoes a change does he not? So naturally at first he won't be the sterling ideal of SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS, but towards the end, I feel he really is. He is more open, personable, and much more considerate to those around him. Again, look at the conversation with the clerk (where he changes into the cheap clothes and sunglasses), that level of comfort and humanity would not have defined Charlie at the beginning.

I agree Charlie goes through a change - Into being a worse person. But we're not going to agree on what 'worse' is.

The convenience store clerk exchange,

[Show spoiler]where he purchases things he needs and addresses the guy by name, often not even looking at the guy as he talks to him, as he is too busy in his own affairs? Not much of a change in my opinion, as he always addresses service people by name and is perfectly friendly to them. This is established very early in the film.

Him changing his cloths in a convenience store might make him more 'open,' but it doesn't make him a better person.

So what IS the change he made? He is now comfortable stealing from his company. This is a) further decline of his character, in my opinion. b) Not even particularly cool or rebellious as he already was told by the accounts guy that he'd just cover for him anyway.

And, you're right, Lulu isn't redeemed, but he drops out to be with this reprehensible 'character' knowingly, so it's still on him.

[mrjohnnyb]

I have been thinking that Criterion will be announcing another surprise horror release for the upcoming October announcements. Last year, Rosemary's Baby was the big surprise.

Here is a list of potential candidates:

Nosferatu (Lang or Herzog or both)
Don't Look Now (Roeg)
Vampyr upgrade (Dreyer)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene)
Freaks (Browning)
Eraserhead (Lynch)
Hour of the Wolf (Bergman)
Eyes Without a Face upgrade(Franju)
The Tenant (Polanski)
Posession (Zulawski)
I Walked with a Zombie (Tourneur)
Night of the Demon (Tourneur)
The Thing from Another World (Hawks/Nyby)

Thoughts?

[Judex]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I have been thinking that Criterion will be announcing another surprise horror release for the upcoming October announcements. Last year, Rosemary's Baby was the big surprise.

Here is a list of potential candidates:

Nosferatu (Lang or Herzog or both)
Don't Look Now (Roeg)
Vampyr upgrade (Dreyer)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene)
Freaks (Browning)
Eraserhead (Lynch)
Hour of the Wolf (Bergman)
Eyes Without a Face upgrade(Franju)
The Tenant (Polanski)
Posession (Zulawski)
I Walked with a Zombie (Tourneur)
Night of the Demon (Tourneur)
The Thing from Another World (Hawks/Nyby)

Thoughts?

Doesn't Kino own the rights to the original Nosferatu and Caligari? the latter is getting a premier of a new print at next years Berlin film festival so thats a definite no.

I'd love an upgrade of Eyes Without a Face

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I have been thinking that Criterion will be announcing another surprise horror release for the upcoming October announcements. Last year, Rosemary's Baby was the big surprise.

Here is a list of potential candidates:

Nosferatu (Lang or Herzog or both)
Don't Look Now (Roeg)
Vampyr upgrade (Dreyer)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene)
Freaks (Browning)
Eraserhead (Lynch)
Hour of the Wolf (Bergman)
Eyes Without a Face upgrade(Franju)
The Tenant (Polanski)
Posession (Zulawski)
I Walked with a Zombie (Tourneur)
Night of the Demon (Tourneur)
The Thing from Another World (Hawks/Nyby)

Thoughts?

Note: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Posse...Blu-ray/75282/

Some great choices there, boss Most of those would make the month very special indeed.

[Yami]

Rosemary's Baby was hinted at though so it wasn't a out-and-out surprise

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

I really wish I could attend that screening. It would rank as the greatest theater going experience I have ever had.

What's your opinion on Red Desert?