Zack Snyder's 'Man of Steel'

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Not necessarily. But, then it would be a few steps closer to being a good Superman film.

Well, then that would make it even worse in my opinion since his remorse and regret ends with a simple momentary vocal outburst. Nothing more selfish than acknowledging a semblance of responsibility and then running/flying away without doing anything about it or trying to show those you are protecting the proper way to deal with your own mess.

I wouldn't say it is the worst, but it is part of a decently lengthy list... the "Why Man Of Steel is a terrible Superman film" list.

Clark Kent never hurt anybody in his life. All these kids who bullied him at school? Never fought back.

Yet he's willing to go to the point of killing, not just anyone, but the last member of his race, in order to save a family and humanity.

And you're still calling him selfish? The people asking for him to let the family die to uphold a 'no kill code' want him to be selfish IMO.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Jor-El was also instrumental, even if it was mostly right before or right after he put the suit on, telling his son about all the ideals and values he would use/have as Superman. Jonathan Kent died protecting his son from the fears and prejudices of this world and because he believed what his son was capable of doing was more important than one man's life. I'm done replying to you in this thread though, all it does is irritate me.

Why does it irritate you though? I actually thought that this was an interesting discussion.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Clark Kent never hurt anybody in his life. All these kids who bullied him at school? Never fought back.

Yet he's willing to go to the point of killing, not just anyone, but the last member of his race, in order to save a family and humanity.

And you're still calling him selfish? The people asking for him to let the family die to uphold a 'no kill code' want him to be selfish IMO.

Yes. I still say that he was selfish. However, the foundational support I have for that statement has absolutely NOTHING to do with the

[Show spoiler]killing of Zod

. I fully support that element of the film despite its anti-Superman quality. It was definitely something that had to be done and was clearly presented in such a way that it was a very difficult quick decision for the character. At least we can agree on that!

[mredman]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Am I talking about Donner? NO. I'm talking about what this character is supposed to represent. I don't care if he is just starting out as a Superhero. The character went through several very important life lessons with his father (Jonathan Kent) that clearly left him with a moral centre. Within the context of JUST THIS FILM, I feel that the character of Jonathan Kent was there to help create the man. And, Jonathan's scenes were very adept at that. In the end, with the way Kal-El behaves during/after the final battle, I feel as though the character of Jonathan was completely wasted and/or countered. Jonathan and his sacrifice deserve far more than how his son behaved in the aftermath.

So tell me what he did wrong ?
Because i saw no immoral behavior from Clark in this one

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Yes. I still say that he was selfish. However, the foundational support I have for that statement has absolutely NOTHING to do with the

[Show spoiler]killing of Zod

. I fully support that element of the film despite its anti-Superman quality. It was definitely something that had to be done and was clearly presented in such a way that it was a very difficult quick decision for the character. At least we can agree on that!

How is it anti-Superman? Hes killed in the comics before. He killed Zod. He killed Doomsday.

And I see you're saying hes selfish because he doesnt help with the cleanup. Are these people upset hes not helping with the cleanup? No, they dont mind the overtime. Obviously it bothers you much more then it bothers Metropolis. They're just glad they're not completely destroyed

Potholes - Super Bacon Cheeseburger only at Carl's Jr. - YouTube

[Drewbee87]

So, exactly what version of Superman is "Superman" to you Petra_Kalbrain? Because the Superman I saw in MOS was pretty damn close to what I've read in the comics over the past 12 years. And he's also a lot different from some of those comics I've read.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by mredman

So tell me what he did wrong ?
Because i saw no immoral behavior from Clark in this one

Well he DID smash that guy's truck instead of just stopping him and calling the cops, you'd think the guy would've noticed something was up when he went to punch him and got knocked back by his Kryptonian "force field", though.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by mredman

So tell me what he did wrong ?
Because i saw no immoral behavior from Clark in this one

Originally Posted by Drewbee87

So, exactly what version of Superman is "Superman" to you Petra_Kalbrain? Because the Superman I saw in MOS was pretty damn close to what I've read in the comics over the past 12 years. And he's also a lot different from some of those comics I've read.

Gentlemen, feel free to read my recent previous posts in this thread. Having me reconstitute my statements in point form could lead to the perception by MODs that I am trolling. And, since that is neither my purpose nor my intent, I respectfully decline to repeat myself.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Well he DID smash that guy's truck instead of just stopping him and calling the cops, you'd think the guy would've noticed something was up when he went to punch him and got knocked back by his Kryptonian "force field", though.

Oh... I didn't mention that one previously. That can be added to the list. Although, I did find that amusing enough to let it slide at that stage of the film. That trucker deserved some retribution. What Clark did was an exaggeration of what would be considered "fair," but I understood the point even if it was presented in hyperbole.

[bluearth]

The amount of scrutiny this film has received is incredible. People are going over it with a fine toothed comb and magnifying glasses searching for any crack or weakness.

Why wasnt this done to other films? I've seen reviewers praise other films this summer despite openly acknowledging the massive plot holes and defiance of reality that they demonstrate, but when it comes to Man of Steel they get out the Microscope and get to work.

So what does it mean? Man of Steel was incredible

Honestly I cant even remember how the final fight of Star Trek into Darkness went down. And I doubt many care because for sure it was likely just another cookie-cutter ending where the bad guy trips and falls onto a spike or the bad guy is knocked unconscious and arrested.

Man of Steel was different, and for that I thank Zach Snyder for standing up against CHristopher Nolan's phantom zone ending. And Nolan the hypocrite

[Show spoiler]Batman Begins he lets Al Ra die and in The Dark Knight Batman pushes Harvey Dent 50 feet to his death

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by bluearth

The amount of scrutiny this film has received is incredible. People are going over it with a fine toothed comb and magnifying glasses searching for any crack or weakness.

Why wasnt this done to other films? I've seen reviewers praise other films this summer despite openly acknowledging the massive plot holes and defiance of reality that they demonstrate, but when it comes to Man of Steel they get out the Microscope and get to work.

So what does it mean? Man of Steel was incredible

Honestly I cant even remember how the final fight of Star Trek into Darkness went down. And I doubt many care because for sure it was likely just another cookie-cutter ending where the bad guy trips and falls onto a spike or the bad guy is knocked unconscious and arrested.

Man of Steel was different, and for that I thank Zach Snyder for standing up against CHristopher Nolan's phantom zone ending. And Nolan the hypocrite

[Show spoiler]Batman Begins he lets Al Ra die and in The Dark Knight Batman pushes Harvey Dent 50 feet to his death

People(like me) wanted a Superman they had never seen before, since they know it will have a huge say in whether or not we get a lot of DC characters to the big screen. As someone who has become a huge DC fan over the last 10 years I am glad this movie did pretty well but wish it had done a bitter better, both in the box office and with audiences and critics.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Drewbee87

North Carolina, our local Drive In said they would love to play Warner Bros. films but they won't allow Drive In Theaters to play them unless they charge each person a fee. I'm starting to think they lied! lol

Not necessarily Drew, we pay per person at our drive in. It comes to about $18 and our 4 year old is free for another year, then he's like $6? Back on topic. The problem with Superman is he has a long history, same as some of the other superhero movies out there. So everyone has their interpretation of what he is to them. I've read Superman from the late 60's up until The Return of Superman and I thought they did a nice job. The unfortunate part is too many people want to compare it to the Donner movies, rather than the source materials. As others pointed out, this is a origin story and there will be more than enough time for the character to evolve into what we know to be Superman today.

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

People(like me) wanted a Superman they had never seen before, since they know it will have a huge say in whether or not we get a lot of DC characters to the big screen. As someone who has become a huge DC fan over the last 10 years I am glad this movie did pretty well but wish it had done a bitter better, both in the box office and with audiences and critics.

Its the most successful Super Hero origin film only behind the Two Spider Man movies. Its at 580m Batman Begins only made 360m. It was never going to pull down Iron Man 3 numbers because it was a new franchise. The sequel will push 1B though

I honestly dont care anymore what the critics think. One of them thinks Iron Man 3 is a jewel in the comic book movie genre. I didnt hate Irion Man 3, but really, its one of the best comic book movies? I'd have to disagree.

But just as important as box office numbers, most fans liked it. Or at least enough fans. Definitely enough to spawn a sequel. A- cinemascore, 7.8 IMDB, 8/10 and 78% approval by fans at rotten tomatoes.

[Drewbee87]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Not necessarily Drew, we pay per person at our drive in. It comes to about $18 and our 4 year old is free for another year, then he's like $6? Back on topic. The problem with Superman is he has a long history, same as some of the other superhero movies out there. So everyone has their interpretation of what he is to them. I've read Superman from the late 60's up until The Return of Superman and I thought they did a nice job. The unfortunate part is too many people want to compare it to the Donner movies, rather than the source materials. As others pointed out, this is a origin story and there will be more than enough time for the character to evolve into what we know to be Superman today.

That's what I was looking for! lol My local Drive In charges $10 a carload. They said they would love to play Warner Bros. films, but they didn't feel right charging each individual adult in the car a fee. And to the rest, perfectly said!

[Dorklord]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

People(like me) wanted a Superman they had never seen before, since they know it will have a huge say in whether or not we get a lot of DC characters to the big screen. As someone who has become a huge DC fan over the last 10 years I am glad this movie did pretty well but wish it had done a bitter better, both in the box office and with audiences and critics.

Ummmmmmmm... The movie is considered a success from the vast majority of movie goers... and a success at the box office as well (It's expected to reach 700 million world wide and 300 million domestic which is great for a superhero origin flick). Sure it was a split with the critics... some called it amazing... some did not... but it didn't dive bomb with critics like The Lone Ranger.

Where are you getting your information? Just check the numbers out there on a number of sites... and you're proven wrong here.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Dorklord

Ummmmmmmm... The movie is considered a success from the vast majority of movie goers... and a success at the box office as well (It's expected to reach 700 million world wide and 300 million domestic which is great for a superhero origin flick). Sure it was a split with the critics... some called it amazing... some did not... but it didn't dive bomb with critics like The Lone Ranger.

Where are you getting your information? Just check the numbers out there on a number of sites... and you're proven wrong here.

I'm aware it did very well but was hoping it had done better and am still amazed at the number of people who either thought it was mediocre or bad. They're definitely in the minority though and the "funny" part is you can bet a lot of those people will still see the sequel in theatres, whether they're willing to admit it or not and I bet Snyder would call that a win in itself.

[Dorklord]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

I'm aware it did very well but was hoping it had done better and am still amazed at the number of people who either thought it was mediocre or bad. They're definitely in the minority though and the "funny" part is you can bet a lot of those people will still see the sequel in theatres, whether they're willing to admit it or not and I bet Snyder would call that a win in itself.

Ok, gotcha. Just making sure. Because I think Man of Steel is actually doing rather well considering how Superman Returns disappointed overall with it's box office number back in 2006.

I do think the MOS sequel will do even better at the box office.

[Yoku]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Did I say that he needed a Kleenex in order to show remorse and show that he cared? No. There are variations of those traits which could easily be reflected with other actions or words that don't involve cuddling up and crying.

In fact, the character did NOTHING to inspire humanity after the tragedy was averted. Sure, the act of stopping the tragedy from being a complete massacre is all fine and good. However, there was nothing that he did to get people inspired to rebuild and restart. He is a character designed to offer humans that inspiration. None was provided in this case.

You want a long speech of Superman after the disaster to show he really cared about humans
IMO Snyder did the right thing by not showing what happened after the destruction. What happens usually after destruction in movies: People happily posing for camera, giving interviews about who their favorite superhero is, and our heroes eating Shawarma -> is this supposed to be inspiration? A destruction of this scale leaves no good memories for anybody caught in the middle. You either show the complete detail of how the city is rebuilt else dont even bother about it.

[RyanPom]

Originally Posted by Dorklord

Ok, gotcha. Just making sure. Because I think Man of Steel is actually doing rather well considering how Superman Returns disappointed overall with it's box office number back in 2006.

I do think the MOS sequel will do even better at the box office.

It's funny. People say they didn't like SR cause Superman wasn't Superman. Now they say they hate MOS cause Superman wasn't Superman. I wish these people would make up there minds.

[Dorklord]

Originally Posted by RyanPom

It's funny. People say they didn't like SR cause Superman wasn't Superman. Now they say they hate MOS cause Superman wasn't Superman. I wish these people would make up there minds.

I actually wasn't dissing on Superman Returns there fyi. I actually enjoyed it. I was just disappointed by it's box office returns... and the fact that they didn't give it another go. So I actually like Superman Returns and Man of Steel. Just glad to have Superman back.