DTS-HDMA vs. Uncompressed PCM

[mdm1699]

Originally Posted by zweet77

I beleive if you mean dtshd-ma that the ps3 still will not bitstream it but there is no need or loss in quality because the ps3 will do the decoding something i think no player on the market right now can do

I AM AT PEACE!

[jkwest]

Originally Posted by saprano

how am i wrong? you cant expect to buy a HTIAB sytem and here the difference in losless audio. thats what i ment.

but, thats not what the OP asked, is it?

He asked if he would hear any difference between PCM and DTS-HD MA....you can't, plain and simple.

[Memnoch]

I have one of the first 605s to hit the market WAY back with they were up for preorder. I am pretty sure I don't have the newest firmware update for the 605. I was under the impression that the firmware update fixed some decoding issues with this DTS-HDMA stuff so I was going to wait until the PS3 could actually bitstream DTS-HDMA to the receiver to bother upgrading it. So since we are getting that capability in a week, do I need this upgrade?

[Pelican170]

hahaha, sorry. either way, the clarity would be the same. just turn up the juice a little more!

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Memnoch

I have one of the first 605s to hit the market WAY back with they were up for preorder. I am pretty sure I don't have the newest firmware update for the 605. I was under the impression that the firmware update fixed some decoding issues with this DTS-HDMA stuff so I was going to wait until the PS3 could actually bitstream DTS-HDMA to the receiver to bother upgrading it. So since we are getting that capability in a week, do I need this upgrade?

The PS3 won't be bitstreaming DTS-HD MA. It will be decoding it and sending it out as PCM over HDMI.

If you're using a PS3 as your player over HDMI, the DTS decoding capability of your player never comes into play, so whether it works or not, you'll never know nor care because it'll be receiving a PCM signal from the PS3.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by Icemage

The PS3 won't be bitstreaming DTS-HD MA. It will be decoding it and sending it out as PCM over HDMI.

If you're using a PS3 as your player over HDMI, the DTS decoding capability of your player never comes into play, so whether it works or not, you'll never know nor care because it'll be receiving a PCM signal from the PS3.

This is not true, like i said before, it sends the decoded DTS-HDMA signal via PCM, which is a way of sending a signal, not to be confused with Lossless audio Uncompressed PCM

[CptGreedle]

Yeah, the PS3 does not Bitstream DTS-HD MA, it will internally decode it into PCM and stream that to the receiver. it will sound the same since they essentially the same information, just encoded differently.
This means that all our DTS HD MA movies that do NOT have PCM or TrueHD will finally be lossless on the PS3.

Break out the Fox and NewLine titles.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Yeah, the PS3 does not Bitstream DTS-HD MA, it will internally decode it into PCM and stream that to the receiver. it will sound the same since they essentially the same information, just encoded differently.
This means that all our DTS HD MA movies that do NOT have PCM or TrueHD will finally be lossless on the PS3.

Break out the Fox and NewLine titles.

I dont agree with this either. How is the ps3 going to decode the DTS-HDMA, then convert it to a Uncompressed PCM file, then decode that then send? If you look, press select when LPCMing DD True HD. Its shows what is being decoded and sent via pcm to the receiver. It will say DD True HD, which is what is being heard. If im wrong, please explain...

[JasonR]

TrueHD and DTS-HDMA are basically zip files. The PS3 unzips them, decodes them, and sends them via LPCM to the player. No bitstreaming involved.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by JasonR

TrueHD and DTS-HDMA are basically zip files. The PS3 unzips them, decodes them, and sends them via LPCM to the player. No bitstreaming involved.

Yes, someone understands.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by JasonR

TrueHD and DTS-HDMA are basically zip files. The PS3 unzips them, decodes them, and sends them via LPCM to the player. No bitstreaming involved.

DTS HD MA is more complicated than a zip file.. what they do is :

1- Compress the CORE Lossy 1.5mbits
2 - The encoder than compare the 1.5mbits lossy core to the PCM track
3 - extra informations are zipped inside the MA tag

DTS HD MA decode uncompress the 1.5mbits lossy core and add the extra information on top of it in real time. That's why it takes extra power

TrueHD is like a ZIP file...

[CptGreedle]

Sorry, I was one letter wrong.. LPCM
All I know is that it INTERNALLY decodes DTS-HD MA, and sends the decoded signal to the receiver. The receiver does not get DTS-HD MA, it should get LPCM.
Either way it takes a lossless format, converts/decodes it to another lossless format, and sends that. We should hear no difference except that there are no discs that have both formats on it so it is a studio choice which to support.

[wrsprow]

Originally Posted by DutchBoy

Maybe he's asking if we already can do uncompressed PCM (like it comes on some discs -- the 5.1 PCM) why do we need another codec that will be converted into the same thing we already have...?

Not sure -- maybe doesn't understand that 5.1 PCM, and something coverted to PCM don't necessarily sound the same (like how DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 don't).

I'm not really sure what's being asked...sorry.

5.1 PCM is uncompressed, therefore lossless, and if that is what is on the disc, it takes up a large chunk of space. However if the disc was encoded with DTS-HD-MA it is in a compressed format on the disc, taking up far less space than PCM. When you play this disc (DTS-HD-MA), the decoder on either your player or receiver as the case may be, picks up the compressed encoding on the disc and uncompresses it back to a lossless signal.

Being digital, nothing should get dropped in the translation.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by ryoohki

DTS HD MA is more complicated than a zip file.. what they do is :

1- Compress the CORE Lossy 1.5mbits
2 - The encoder than compare the 1.5mbits lossy core to the PCM track
3 - extra informations are zipped inside the MA tag

DTS HD MA decode uncompress the 1.5mbits lossy core and add the extra information on top of it in real time. That's why it takes extra power

TrueHD is like a ZIP file...

I realize that, I was trying to explain in terms everyone would understand.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Sorry, I was one letter wrong.. LPCM
All I know is that it INTERNALLY decodes DTS-HD MA, and sends the decoded signal to the receiver. The receiver does not get DTS-HD MA, it should get LPCM.
Either way it takes a lossless format, converts/decodes it to another lossless format, and sends that. We should hear no difference except that there are no discs that have both formats on it so it is a studio choice which to support.

I still do not believe or have ever heard of anything doing this. If what you are saying is true, where the DTS-HDMA is being decoded and converts it to another lossless audio, that would mean that we are never really hearing DD True HD or DTS HDMA with the PS3 but instead, we are always hearing an Uncompressed PCM? I do not believe that...

[CptGreedle]

Actually... I think that is true. the PS3 already internally decodes TrueHD. I will go check on this to make sure... if I'm wrong I will correct myself, if I am not I will provide a link...

[CptGreedle]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08...or-ps3-owners/

** Dolby TrueHD can still be decoded inside the PS3 and sent as uncompressed audio to the AV receiver, but if the AV receiver has an integrated decoder it can't be used instead of the PS3's decoder. **

** This was confirmed by a Sony representative.**

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=9319

http://jakkaj.wordpress.com/2008/03/...-hd-ma-on-ps3/

The PS3 internally transcodes the TrueHD etc to PCM. Once this setting is enabled, the OSD on the TV says TrueHD!! Yaay.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Actually... I think that is true. the PS3 already internally decodes TrueHD. I will go check on this to make sure... if I'm wrong I will correct myself, if I am not I will provide a link...

No, i know the PS3 internally decodes the True HD. then sends the decoded True HD VIA multichannel PCM, but doesnt convert it to Uncompressed PCM. Uncompressed PCM is a type of file format and LPCM is a way of sending a signal to the receiver.

[DutchBoy]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

I still do not believe or have ever heard of anything doing this. If what you are saying is true, where the DTS-HDMA is being decoded and converts it to another lossless audio, that would mean that we are never really hearing DD True HD or DTS HDMA with the PS3 but instead, we are always hearing an Uncompressed PCM? I do not believe that...

I'm not technically minded enough to understand all of the inner workings of it, but I don't see why this wouldn't be possible (and by the way, this is how I understand it to work too).

If it's taking the TrueHD or DTS-HD and converting it, sound for sound, to another format (PCM), it's going to sound exactly the same as before the convert.

That's why receiver's getting those codecs from the PS3 don't show "TrueHD" or "DTS-HD" on their screens -- they're getting PCM signals from the PS3 that are identical to the original codecs that have been converted.

Now I'M confuseded...

edit: just read your last post -- I gotcha now. I misunderstood the tech. lingo of it all, though I got the gist of it. I'm glad this thread got started -- LOL.

I wonder, would it even be possible for the/a machine to do an internal file-convert like that (say to a PCM) that sounded exactly the same?

[Sith]

so is all you need to get truehd and dtshdma a receiver that has a hdmi in....

Please help, i am ready to buy some new equipment for my birthday...