Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[Mansinthe]

well i liked all his bluray releases (i own them all)


and my favorites are probably the movies that sold pretty bad as well..
vulgaria , woodsman and the rain.. i totally love these.

on his facebook pages he gives comments from time to time what movies he likes, why he likes them, why he wont release this and that movie.
i still think he as a good taste for movies and is releasing some stuff in the western world that no one else ever would, i think thats better then releaseing movies that are already release in the US.

i dont get why people always want horror / gore and revenge movies, there is so much more to asian cinema.

there is already so much mainstream stuff released in the US by well go usa.
CJ entertaiment has a lot of korean revenge movies with english subs
there are still the HK releases of many japanese horror movies as well.

should be no problem for a real fan of these movies to go region free and pay more

but adam is acutally releasing HD releases of movies that get no english friendly release at all !

i would love to see more japanese "drama" movies like woodsman and the rain or HK comedys like Vulgaria but at least the last wont happen since he sold something like 6 copys in the last two months.

and still he keeps releasing awesome stuff even on DVD like
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyes-Spider-...words=serpents

i think thats the ONLY english friendly release of these movies.

[Pooch]

Hi Mansinthe,

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

i still think he as a good taste for movies and is releasing some stuff in the western world that no one else ever would, i think thats better then releaseing movies that are already release in the US.

And that's all well-and-good. And, yes, most of the stuff Third Window Films releases are excellent...

...The problem is, the sales in the UK for non-English language product is minsicule. And if Adam is expecting sales of films that are in Korean, Japanese, Cantonese, or whatever other language are going to be selling in the hundred-of-thousands, then he is naive at best, or deluded at worst!

On top of this, he is choosing films that even most fans of World Cinema haven't necessarily heard of, so most people picking-up these films, are doing so based on:

1) Anything they've heard off of the Internet (dedicated Asian Cinema websites, forums such as Blu-Ray.com, or friends also into these kinds of films) OR
2) Reviews in Western media (which as most of us know, are extremely rare, because most Western print and AV media don't care about non-English language stuff, at the best of times) OR
3) Whatever the description says the film's about, on the back of the DVD/Blu-Ray case, and the cover artwork too.

What I'm getting at, is that Adam's film choices are having to jump through a lot of hurdles, before they get sold. And the hurdles are often the same hurdles that make most films of this kind, sell in very, very low quantities. So the odds of any, but his most well-known films, are stacked well-and-truly against him.

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

i dont get why people always want horror / gore and revenge movies, there is so much more to asian cinema.

That's true, but sex and violence in any medium sells, because sex and violence in entertainment makes money. If you promote something as being "The most explicit / hardcore / extreme title since...", you've got a good chance of selling more titles than if you didn't include this strapline!

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

there is already so much mainstream stuff released in the US by well go usa. CJ entertaiment has a lot of korean revenge movies with english subs there are still the HK releases of many japanese horror movies as well. should be no problem for a real fan of these movies to go region free and pay more

That's also true, but most UK fans aren't multi-region, certainly not when it comes to Blu-Ray. And only hardcore fans of Asian cinema, are likely to have heard of the likes of CJ Entertainment, Well Go USA, or even Palisades Tartan! So the fact you may not find it problematic to go multi-region, doesn't mean that most of the average Joe And Jane Public agree with you. (They don't!) You only need to see how Tartan Video struggled for years bringing edgy, daring, provocative and controversial foreign-language movies onto UK shores! And they had the entireity of World Cinema at their fingertips to choose from, to unleash onto unsuspecting UK film fans. Which titles sold the best? Well, outside of the Kurosawa's and Bergman's of this world, stuff from the likes of John Woo, Takashi Miike and other "extreme" films sold the best!

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

but adam is acutally releasing HD releases of movies that get no english friendly release at all !

And that's incredibly commendable, but it's a very, very risky thing to do in business. Moreso when we've established in the last few posts, that Adam has complained his films aren't selling enough copies, but when people ask him to release certain films, he won't release them because he doesn't like them!

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

i would love to see more japanese "drama" movies like woodsman and the rain or HK comedys like Vulgaria but at least the last wont happen since he sold something like 6 copys in the last two months.

That's because of all of the reasons I've already outlined: namely that:-
1) People haven't heard of these films, so are reluctant to try them out.

2) People aren't willing to spend £10 on any film they've not heard of, or know little-to-nothing about these days, because £10 is a lot of money to find out that a film you've chosen is s**t!

3) The British Public are fussy at the best of times, to anything that isn't mainstream, and in the English-language. You only need to look at how badly English-language Independent cinema from the USA does, in cinemas or on DVD/Blu-Ray. It's a niche product.

4) If no one knows about these films, and no one in the mainstream media is willing to advertise, talk about, or write-reviews-of these films, then it's down to Adam to promote the hell out of them, to try and gain sales. But PR and promotions, takes time and money. Both of which, Adam seems unwilling to invest in, because he can't really afford to.

Therefore, I feel as if Adam is essentially asking people to take a gamble, based purely on what he thinks are good films. Well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Ten years ago, maybe I would have. But these days, risking £10 on a film I know nothing about, with almost no press or media coverage, is a BIG risk!

But, as I've already said in previous posts, I do sometimes take that risk, but usually only when the price has come down.

The other problem, is that Fopp are one of the biggest champions of his films, and foreign material in general, but there are only about 10 Fopp stores across the UK anyway, and two of them are in London. As shocking or surprising as this may seem to Adam, not everyone lives in London, or can get to London.

And whilst Fopp is an off-shot of HMV, HMV stores have reduced their World Cinema sections in most stores, because it doesn't make enough money to carry stock that sits on their shelves for months or years at a time.

So, as much as I want to support Adam, and whilst I do my best, Adam seriously needs to reconsider how he runs Third Window Films. He needs to either start releasing stuff that the public wants, and/or doing far more promotion of his films in general - and not just via social media sites! He needs to get the likes of EMPIRE, SIGHT AND SOUND, the BBC, Mark Kermode, THE GUARDIAN, THE INDEPENDENT and I on his side, to help him promote his films so that people DO try them.

Until he does one or more of these, he's going to find himself selling very few copies, if no one's heard about them! Adam can't keep blaming the public for low-sales. Sometimes, the blame has to be put firmly and squarely on you, yourself!


Pooch

[Mansinthe]

well you may be right with a lot of your comments but

But these days, risking £10 on a film I know nothing about, with almost no press or media coverage, is a BIG risk!

really ? is 10 GBP that much of a risk? 0o any average "watch once" new hollywood release is more expensiv. and people still buy it. and they spend even 20 GBP for a stupid steelbook that they probably are not even gonna open

i dont know how much money average joe and jane earn each month and how expensiv living costs are in the UK.

but i think 10 GBP for a new release from a small label is already a pretty good price !

i just received 2 CJ imports from Korea today. price ~20GBP each!
thats a price i would say its a "risk".

[Pooch]

Hi Mansinthe,

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

is 10 GBP that much of a risk?

Yes, it is. £10 doesn't go far these days, as the cost of living has skyrocketed in the past 12 months. This time, last year, I was spending about £15 a week on electricity. I'm now spending £20-£25 a week, and am not using significantly more. The cost of basic foods, such as eggs, milk, bread has increased by 30-45%. That's a massive increase in living costs.

So, yes, £10 is a lot to spend on a film I know nothing or next-to-nothing, and am essentially taking a gamble on. At least to me, it is!

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

and they spend even 20 GBP for a stupid steelbook that they probably are not even gonna open

Well, there'll always be stupid people who have more money than sense.

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

i dont know how much money average joe and jane earn each month and how expensiv living costs are in the UK.

The National Average Wage in the UK, is supposed to be around £23,000 per year. The National Minimum Wage for someone over the age of 21 is £6-19 per hour. (This will be going up to £6-31 per hour from the end of October 2013.)

The National Living Wage, which is the figure you need to earn to have a basic standard of living, is about £7-45 an hour. So you can already see the discrepancy between what most people need to earn, and what they actually normally earn, already!

According to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, who do lots of research into the cost of living in the UK, an average, single adult man/woman in 21st Century Britain needs to be earning £200 a week as a bare minimum, after taxes, to have a reasonable standard of living. (Which is defined as the ability to pay for average groceries; pay an average weeks worth of gas and/or electricity, as well as water; pay their Council Tax, plus rent/mortgage, and have a little bit left over for luxuries.)

However, most jobs these days pay National Minimum Wage, which for someone over the age of 21, and working 35-40 hours a week, means you'll earn about £10,000 after all your taxes, or about £192 a week.

So, to live reasonably, as opposed to comfortably, you need to earn £200, but most people earn no more than £192 a week. The £8 difference doesn't sound much, but over a year, that's a huge difference!

Thus, if you are an average member of the public, and you earn £10,000 in this day-and-age, then you're earning's are peanuts, and you won't (and can't) have a reasonable standard of living!

And all of this applies to those working full-time hours. A lot of people are finding their hours have been slashed, as companies can no longer afford to keep people on full-time hours. So, in fact, many average adults in the UK, are actually earning even less than £10,000 a year, and probably nearer to £7000-£8000 instead!

By that fact, that means many adults are earning just 1/3rd of the money that they actually need to live on!

And, just to add insult-to-injury, we were still experiencing snow, and sub-zero weather conditions, in May 2013. In June, July and August, we had a proper Summer, with temperatures in the 20-30 degrees range, but in the past couple of days, those temperatures have halved to around 12-15 degrees, and people are now having to put on their heating again, and it's only mid-September! If you spend more than 10% of your monthly income on electric/gas, then you are considered to be in "fuel poverty". As I spend about double that, then I, and many other households in the UK, are in fuel poverty.

So, trust me, when I say, that spending £10 on a film you know nothing about, is not something many people can afford to do in Britain today.


Pooch

[Mansinthe]

10.000 GBP , thats 11882€.
wow below 1000€ each month, thats really not that much considering the high living costs for food and stuff you got there.

[logboy]

interesting to see so much focus on adam and his sensible policy of having to like a film to want to release it. i know for the fans it's all about them, but from a business perspective, a good starting point is your own personal sense of how good a film is - and it's doubly hard to try to push any film (or catalogue of films) if you're not certain of your own interest. it's proven a perfectly good guide for american labels like blue underground, synapse, code red, scream / shout factory and pretty much any small label you care to mention. difference with films from any asian country is that it both seems to have a younger, less experienced fanbase, and it tends to expect lots of effort to be put in for it, rather than discussing and researching possibilities. have a feeling there's a sense this is a huge, largely hidden and apparently impenetrable field of interest, and, as a result, people have found ways to give the impression of being knowledgeable and sophisticated without the means or motivation to go about gathering a knowledge of something that's so well-hidden behind a language barrier.

now, i know plenty would say they spend an age on figuring out their purchases of asian films, but i'd be interested to see how many folk feel they (or any site(s) they read) know about something they feel they're not seeing much discussion of - a film you like the look of that nobody seems to be covering, something that's not getting much attention - and then try to imagine how little overall activity there actually is versus how much there sometimes seems to be when you hang around the few dedicated specific places that seem to cover films from across asia; there's few, and they certainly contain discussion of very very few of the (literally) hundreds of films made each year in the continent.

i personally spent about five years trying to increase my sense of the overall production output of japan in particular. currently output there seems to be 400 - 600 films in total made each yea; if you think it's mostly crap, you're right, but there's always far more really impressive stuff you'll never knew passed us all by; about a decade ago, the output was around half that, apparently. i'd imagine that the figure for the amount that see any kind of outing abroad (festival, home video release) is in little more than single figures as a percentage. for me, i'd say there needs to be far more exploration and variation, argument, discussion, consideration and just plain old *work* from the fans (myself included, of course) to increase the interest, expectation, diversity, sophistication of understanding.

at the moment, i don't actually think fandom for any kind of asian film goes beyond a very small handful (maybe) of specialists, usually hidden and un-engaged in the more obvious public discussions (on the whole) when it comes to a really impressive knowledge - it's essentially dominated by a very casual, young audience that seems to have often been lost and replenished with a similarly-populated group that doesn't seem to be able to collectively get past the problems it has and can't acknowledge : that it\s not so much about how labels go about things, or how companies prevent films from being licensed, but about how insular and repetitive, cyclical the fanbase is, how easily led it is towards the same few film styles, director names, story elements, stylistic flourishes, and anything else that seems to be representative but ultimately only gives the slightest hint at the actual content of the films people are watching - and how easily it is then disappointed to feel as though it's been painted into a corner, become stale and boring.

[Sky_Captain]

Someone get the violins out for Pooch.

[Pooch]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Sky_Captain

Someone get the violins out for Pooch.

Thanks for the patronising response, Sky Captain. I'm not wanting your sympathy, I was merely explaining to Mansinthe, why £10 is quite a lot of money, and answering his questions on living costs in the UK. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you can afford to gamble at lots of titles you know nothing about, that's fine. But there are other people who can't afford to do so. Paying my bills, eating healthily, and covering my transport costs to/from work take precedent over luxuries such as DVD's and Blu-Ray's. So please try and be a little more sympathetic and tolerant towards those who aren't as lucky/buoyant/financially-sound as you might be.

Originally Posted by logboy

interesting to see so much focus on adam and his sensible policy of having to like a film to want to release it.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Adam's policy. It's just that he's complaining that no one buys his films, and then when fans suggest releases of films they would like him to release, he says he won't release them, because he doesn't like them.

That's a majorly flawed business plan, in my view. If every company-owner only sold stuff they personally liked, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer companies in this world!

I'm sure every company deals with stuff that they don't personally like/agree with, but which there is a demand from their customers for. If companies want customers to buy stuff from them, these companies need to sell stuff we customers want!

Adam's trying to have his cake and eat it, which isn't going to work. Even moreso when people have less money to "gamble" with on risky titles they know little about. People are being more selective these days, as they have less money to spend on luxuries, and are less-willng to take a gamble. It's fine to gamble when you rent stuff, but not when you're buying something outright.


Pooch

[Mansinthe]

i received their newest release today Eyes of the Spider / Serpent's Path while im happy to get these movies at all for a fair price, i dont get why they didnt use 1 disc for each movie , instead of putting both movies (running time is 168 min !) on 1 disc !

its only a DVD release but still, 2 discs would have been probably better for the AV quality


maybe it would be possible for them to do dual format releases of the bluray movies ?
isnt MoC and Criterion doing that to save money ?

[Modman]

Originally Posted by Pooch

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Adam's policy. It's just that he's complaining that no one buys his films, and then when fans suggest releases of films they would like him to release, he says he won't release them, because he doesn't like them.

Pooch

Agreed, If you only wish to release films you like that's fine, however, you can't complain if buyers in return only buy the films they like. The difference being that a seller has the necessity to at least cover their costs if not make a reasonable profit, whereas a buyer is not bound by any necessity.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by Pooch

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with Adam's policy. It's just that he's complaining that no one buys his films, and then when fans suggest releases of films they would like him to release, he says he won't release them, because he doesn't like them.

That's a majorly flawed business plan, in my view. If every company-owner only sold stuff they personally liked, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer companies in this world!

I'm sure every company deals with stuff that they don't personally like/agree with, but which there is a demand from their customers for. If companies want customers to buy stuff from them, these companies need to sell stuff we customers want!

Adam's trying to have his cake and eat it, which isn't going to work. Even moreso when people have less money to "gamble" with on risky titles they know little about. People are being more selective these days, as they have less money to spend on luxuries, and are less-willng to take a gamble. It's fine to gamble when you rent stuff, but not when you're buying something outright.


Pooch

i think asking fans would be a mistake - the fans don't have as broad a knowledge or experience of what's out there; adam sees more of what's coming as companies give him those opportunities in hope he'll like and release them.

you'd get so many possible directions by asking others, how would you gauge which one to go in - most votes? you'd not even get as many votes as he already has sales. i'd say stick to what you like, and not only that - ignore what the reviews say they've liked of what you've just released, as they're just trying to keep you happy enough to keep sending out free dvds, and they certainly don't know how dysfunctional it is to be determined to support something if you're not entirely honest about having a substantial reason for supporting it.

biggest flaw for me is the relative lack of knowledge within fans - labels that release 'small market' films are predominantly working with communities that have lots of experience and knowledge of a films long before a company gets a chance to release it. asking for their advice is fine is you're into low budget horror from italy, for example. we're stuck not knowing that much about any asian countries history because of the lack of a history in being able or willing to release it. there's just too much of it by comparison.

[drees5761]

I agree with Pooch. While it is great to see obscure titles being released he should really subsidize that with more popular Asian titles such as the early John Woo films like The Killer or Hard Boiled or maybe some of the Jackie Chan type titles, at least the general public are more aware of these films. If these sell well it can help the company keep releasing less well known titles.
I have been in contact with a few niche labels in the UK asking if they would release these type of movies onto Blu ray and help out if required but none seemed interested at the moment. When a big title such as Wu Xia (aka Dragon) just gets a DVD only release in the UK without any publicity then its an uphill struggle.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by drees5761

I agree with Pooch. While it is great to see obscure titles being released he should really subsidize that with more popular Asian titles such as the early John Woo films like The Killer or Hard Boiled or maybe some of the Jackie Chan type titles, at least the general public are more aware of these films. If these sell well it can help the company keep releasing less well known titles.

i'd imagine those really well-known titles aren't as widely-known as to provide enough income. in other words, in certain circles they're well-known, in the wider public they're known to some extent, but not as much as they might seem to be. and i don't think people double-dip as frequently as double-dippers might imagine they would, either.

lots of companies go for asian films made relatively cheaply that can be portrayed as (or compared to) films made in the west that would be very expensive to produce. there's a culture of presenting films in marketing materials as more accessible and impressive than they would be to a wider crossover market. even companies like this have fallen flat and disappeared, because the trick only works so many times before people see through it and get tired of it.

i'm sure plenty of people would also imagine the most well-known current crop of asian directors would find an easy large audience, but even those don't necessarily sell that well. at it's peak, from what i remember being quoted, even in america, you could expect the most successful asian films released on dvd to sell on in the low thousands. these days, i can't imagine how few most stuff sells.

of course, you can never guarantee good films are being picked - because opinions vary. always.

[Mansinthe]

didnt the UK label tartan went to the US becouse of the high cost for the BBFC and even their big amount of known asian horror films didnt sell all that great?

in the US they can release everything again as unrated and will probably make more money.

i just watched on of the movies on the new double release of third window films Serpent's Path. video quality is better then i did expect
i hope these movies will do well.

[thirdwindowfilms]

DEAR ALL - PLEASE EXCUSE THIS VERY LONG REPLY!! SORRY! If you have the time to read it all it would be appreciated! Of course, at any time, anybody please feel free to email me directly at adam@thirdwindowfilms.com and I will answer your email as soon as possible!

Hi all, sorry for jumping in on this conversation, but don't really check back here too often, and thought it would be a good idea to jump in so we can have a healthy discussion about this all and maybe talk about some misinformation or misunderstandings that seem to be happening.

Just like to address some issues here, as I'd like to clear up the concept of Third Window Films and what we are doing.

I can see that many people are saying that I don't always choose the suggestions that you give, which is of course going to happen, but it doesn't mean that I disregard them off the bat. Yes, I like to distribute films I like, because I am not setup in some sort of purely commercial 'numbers' enterprise, and this whole company is setup with my passion and love for promoting ALL genres of Asian cinema to the West, and with the hope to change people's perception of what Asian cinema is. I understand that this can be thought of as 'naive', and maybe it is, but I cannot work without passion or else I have no enthusiasm and therefore cannot truly market a film. Third Window Films is a 1 man company. I have no office and the only other 'staff' is my flatmate who also works for Terracotta Distribution. So all I can do is promote films with my heart and soul, but I am not a 'used-car salesman' or a highly skilled 'seller' in the respect that I need to feel fully behind a product or else I cannot sell it. I want people to see my passion behind what I am doing and hopefully people will take a chance on titles that they wouldn't have heard of if they can feel the same passion as me. Of course I realise that in this respect not everyone will agree with what I select, so when I am accused of only releasing what I like, or wanting to have my cake and eat it to, then of course I can only hold myself to blame, and for this I am sorry if I caused any problems.

What I want to expel though, is the idea that I only release comedies and don't focus solely on cult or genre films for the sake of making money. Firstly, to be honest, I personally try to create a balance with titles. Since around this time last year I have released many different genres in this order:

Himizu (dark, from a cult director)
Kotoko (even darker horror from a famous cult director)
Tetsuo (first time ever on blu-ray of a well known film, with 3 new remasters in a slipcase)
Isn't Anyone Alive (black, absurd comedy from a famous cult director)
The Foreign Duck... (intelligent thriller, drama from a well-known director)
The Woodsman & the Rain (award-winning and well received comedy with big names from a talented upcoming director)
Vulgaria (winner of many audience awards and highest grossing hong kong film of the year from a director who is highly acclaimed)
For Love's Sake (musical comedy/action from a famous cult director)
The Land of Hope (award-winning drama from a famous cult director)
Eyes of the Spider/Serpent's Path (2 films that have never before been released with english subtitles from a famous cult director)

and have new remastered blu-rays (released for the first time ever) of Tokyo Fist and Bullet Ballet out later this year.

So to be honest I believe it's a pretty decent variety of films to cover many genres.

Also, in the past I have released many other 'genre' films such as PTU, Friend, Say Yes, Teenage Hooker Became a Killing Machine, Cold Fish, No Blood No Tears, etc, plus many films which went on to be big Asian favourites such as Love Exposure, Kamikaze Girls, Confessions, Fish Story, Adrift in Tokyo...

and secondly, actually the comedies do surprisingly well. Some titles such as Fine Totally Fine, Funuke: Show Some Love You Losers, Turtles are Surprisingly Fast Swimmers, Sawako Decides, etc have all done very good numbers, which is why I continue to release many comedies (also, because I like to laugh...).

Though when it's said that it's bad practice to not listen to the consumers, I believe there may a certain level of naivity on the other hand. To be honest I receive requests EVERY DAY about films to pickup. Should I pick them all up?? Actually, many titles that I have picked up were BECAUSE of requests. In fact, titles like VULGARIA and WOODSMAN & THE RAIN were picked up because I had many requests for them. Vulgaria was a huge success in Hong Kong, where it was the highest grossing film of the year (which is very hard for a comedy against so many genre titles in HK). It also did incredibly well at many film festivals and was even RELEASED IN CINEMAS IN AMERICA. Actually, I would say that it could have even been TOO mainstream compared to the many MINOR titles such as Fine Totally Fine which is even totally unknown in Japan and sold 4,000 copies in the UK (which is about how many OUTRAGE has sold). If you think about it, Vulgaria is actually a lot more mainstream than you'd think, and the many genres it covers, from being a satire on the film industry to a gross-out vulgar comedy allow it to tap into many genres. Also, WOODSMAN & THE RAIN was released because it was incredibly popular at a couple UK festivals where I asked many audience members directly and took scores from the totals who all rated the film incredibly high, so it's

Quoting POOCH - "If no one knows about these films, and no one in the mainstream media is willing to advertise, talk about, or write-reviews-of these films, then it's down to Adam to promote the hell out of them, to try and gain sales. But PR and promotions, takes time and money. Both of which, Adam seems unwilling to invest in, because he can't really afford to."

- actually, I spend an awful lot on advertising. Right now I have a full page ad in Sight and Sound. Last month and before then full pages in Total Film magazine. I also regularly advertise in Little White Lies, SCIFI Now, Neo Magazine and occasionally EMPIRE Magazine. When I had bigger releases I even advertised all over the London Underground and in major Newspapers! I also run trailer advertising on all major sites such as MSN, NME, YAHOO, etc; so I don't know about being "unwilling to invest in". Also reviews do always make it into the Evening Standard, Short List and other newspapers, plus magazines and many websites, but you must be aware that MOST magazines and newspapers REFUSE to review films which don't play in the cinemas. If you check Sight and Sound, Empire, Total Film, etc etc, you'll see that there are about 20 pages devoted to Theatrical Reviews and 1 or 2 pages devoted to DVD reviews, with about 200 films competing for 10 slots every month. Why do you think big companies put a film in the cinema and then the day after put it on DVD??? It's ONLY to get theatrical press and they LOSE money on purpose for that press. It's very hard to get films into cinemas for that press, especially with the BBFC fees and the fact that Cineworld have taken over Picturehouse who in turn were vacuuming up indie cinemas across the UK, so it's not easy even being willing to lose LOTS of money. Things are a lot more complicated than you think.

On a note regarding TETSUO 3: You say that "I know the first two didn't do that well for them" - well why would anybody release the third of a trilogy when the first two, which are MILES better, didn't do well?? First off, the third film is just not good, which isn't just my personal taste. Secondly, it's already available with english subtitles and in very nice editions in many territories, so if first 2, which aren't available ANYWHERE else in the world (and packaged with his student film for a cheap price) didn't do well, then why would it be a good idea to buy the third?? Lastly, and maybe most important: the third in the series is owned by a big sales agent and therefore the film is EXPENSIVE, so the risk is even higher especially when thinking about the above points

and bringing onto the final point of this all (sorry for this very long message, but just want to clarify things):

Bigger films are EXPENSIVE. VERY expensive. You say "another obvious choice, would be a Blu-Ray set of all of BRUCE LEE'S major works!"

maybe that would be 'obvious' if I was Warner Brothers, but how do you expect a 1 person company without even an office or real staff to release a massive blu-ray set of Bruce Lee films??? Do you have any idea the cost of that?? Do you think that Warner Brothers would just hand over the rights to Enter the Dragon??? Then what about securing deals to all the major companies who own all his films?? Then compiling a blu-ray box of them all?? Blu-rays are NOT cheap to make. They cost 6 times the cost of a DVD to get out there. Just the set itself would cost probably tens of thousands to get out there. Remember I am not SONY, and therefore I cannot negotiate cheaper manufacturing deals as larger companies who can bring the prices down because they manufacture millions of discs a year. It's not as easy as that.

titles like The Killer, Hard Boiled, Jackie Chan films. Of course they would be nice, but they're VERY EXPENSIVE. and also, older titles can be VERY complicated to handle. Of course i'd love to release some older classics, even some older obscure classics, but it's really not as easy to think that "that film is old and obscure so therefore it must be easy and cheap to release" -it's really not as easy as that.

Once again I must apologise for the length of this message. Anybody can at anytime email me at adam@thirdwindowfilms.com and discuss further. I just want to try and clear up some things, and I DO UNDERSTAND that I cannot be complaining if sales fail, so I do not want to come across as naive or ungrateful, but the whole point of Third Window is to try and release films that people wouldn't have the chance to watch otherwise and therefore can hopefully find a new experience of Asian cinema. I have been working for many years trying to find this balance in bringing in obscure titles in between more major ones. Maybe I've focused more on obscure titles and become disillusioned, but I'm trying very hard to open up people's eyes to ALL genres of Asian cinema so I hope that people don't just focus on the same old same old.

I don't want any sort of problems with anyone, so I hope we can have a discussion about these things, but I just want to try and clarify some things as it seems like I'm being attacked when information is just plain wrong or miscued. I hope that this message hasn't been so long that nothing is being read into, plus please try and understand some points and you're welcome to ask questions on the rest.

[jonboy24]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

DEAR ALL - PLEASE EXCUSE THIS VERY LONG REPLY!! SORRY! If you have the time to read it all it would be appreciated! Of course, at any time, anybody please feel free to email me directly at adam@thirdwindowfilms.com and I will answer your email as soon as possible!

Hi all, sorry for jumping in on this conversation, but don't really check back here too often, and thought it would be a good idea to jump in so we can have a healthy discussion about this all and maybe talk about some misinformation or misunderstandings that seem to be happening.

Just like to address some issues here, as I'd like to clear up the concept of Third Window Films and what we are doing.

and bringing onto the final point of this all (sorry for this very long message, but just want to clarify things):

Bigger films are EXPENSIVE. VERY expensive. You say "another obvious choice, would be a Blu-Ray set of all of BRUCE LEE'S major works!"

maybe that would be 'obvious' if I was Warner Brothers, but how do you expect a 1 person company without even an office or real staff to release a massive blu-ray set of Bruce Lee films??? Do you have any idea the cost of that?? Do you think that Warner Brothers would just hand over the rights to Enter the Dragon??? Then what about securing deals to all the major companies who own all his films?? Then compiling a blu-ray box of them all?? Blu-rays are NOT cheap to make. They cost 6 times the cost of a DVD to get out there. Just the set itself would cost probably tens of thousands to get out there. Remember I am not SONY, and therefore I cannot negotiate cheaper manufacturing deals as larger companies who can bring the prices down because they manufacture millions of discs a year. It's not as easy as that.

titles like The Killer, Hard Boiled, Jackie Chan films. Of course they would be nice, but they're VERY EXPENSIVE. and also, older titles can be VERY complicated to handle. Of course i'd love to release some older classics, even some older obscure classics, but it's really not as easy to think that "that film is old and obscure so therefore it must be easy and cheap to release" -it's really not as easy as that.

Great reply!

I was also wondering why people were complaining about about a lack of bigger titles. It didn't help cine-asia did it?

May I ask a question. Is there any chance of more Miki Satoshi works in the future? Maybe his newest film?

[Mansinthe]

quoting the whole post ? oh well ;D

adam you should add german subs to your releases. lot of people want these sion sono movies but i think only guilty of romance got a bluray release here (and its still more expensiv then every thirdwindow bluray!)

splendid is releasing a lot of newer korean movies here (stuff from CJ entertaiment as well), is it possible to work together with such a label? split costs , share distrubtion rights etc...

[jonboy24]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

quoting the whole post ? oh well ;D

adam you should add german subs to your releases. lot of people want these sion sono movies but i think only guilty of romance got a bluray release here (and its still more expensiv then every thirdwindow bluray!)

splendid is releasing a lot of newer korean movies here (stuff from CJ entertaiment as well), is it possible to work together with such a label? split costs , share distrubtion rights etc...

A long day

Why German subs on a UK release? Surely it wouldn't be worth the extra cost to please a small number of German fans

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by jonboy24

Great reply!

I was also wondering why people were complaining about about a lack of bigger titles. It didn't help cine-asia did it?

May I ask a question. Is there any chance of more Miki Satoshi works in the future? Maybe his newest film?

Actually, may be helping someone else release it in the UK, but it won't come out under our name. Actually, have a couple comedies for next year which were REQUESTED by many people, especially How to Use Guys with Secret Tips which won the audience award at the Udine Far East Film Festival, so will try and balance those with some darker or more genre films as to not have too many comedies. Will help this other company as much as possible and they plan on releasing in many territories so I'm sure you'll see it soon!

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

quoting the whole post ? oh well ;D

adam you should add german subs to your releases. lot of people want these sion sono movies but i think only guilty of romance got a bluray release here (and its still more expensiv then every thirdwindow bluray!)

splendid is releasing a lot of newer korean movies here (stuff from CJ entertaiment as well), is it possible to work together with such a label? split costs , share distrubtion rights etc...

unfortunately things like adding multiple subs on a release is a whole different ballgame and NOT simple...

splitting costs does happen, though it's not so easy to work out. Things are unfortunately never as easy as understanding it's a good idea and then implementing it. wish it was!