Reference Level?

[jcs913]

I am curious as to what people define as 'reference level' on their receiver? If I am correct, reference level is generally defined as 0 on their receiver, no + or - db at all. When I listen to movies or music, 0 is never in the picture, as it is too loud. Not counting dial norm and any other additives, is generally 0 the reference level for that receiver?

[Lucy Diamond]

The position of the dial really only matters with tubes. (in that case, depending on the configuration, you really start to get sick tone at about 12 o'clock)

With solid state receivers, I'd set the level to one that allows both dialogue and sound effects at a dramatic yet enjoyable level.

If it is pleasing to you, then that is all that matters.

Enjoy.

[HDJK]

Reference level would be 85dB, but that's pretty darn loud.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

The position of the dial really only matters with tubes. (in that case, depending on the configuration, you really start to get sick tone at about 12 o'clock)

With solid state receivers, I'd set the level to one that allows both dialogue and sound effects at a dramatic yet enjoyable level.

If it is pleasing to you, then that is all that matters.

Enjoy.

I don't understand your assertion that the "position of the dial really only matters with tubes", so could you please clarify it? I have a tube preamp and tube monoblocs, and I don't get anytning that could be described as a "sick tone" at any volume!

[m6bigdog]

Reference levels (i.e. 0dBm, 0dBV, etc.) are only relevant to the audio signal levels internal to and between the audio equipment. Speakers have such a wide variation in efficiency (reference input is 1 watt produce a SPL - from below 85 to over 104 dB @ 1 meter) that any and all references between the equipments internal signal levels (to include the power amplifier gain) and the speaker acoustic output in SPL @ 1 watt are irrelevant. Therefore, the knobs position may give an indication of relevance from one mark to the next (i.e. +/-2 or +/-3 dB) but would have no significance to the actual loudness or acoustic sound pressure level (human hearing reference) in the room.
Every 3 dB increase in sound pressure level requires twice the amplifier power into the speaker and this is considered just perceivable with the human ear.
That is, if the speaker has a SPL output of 85 dBw @ 1 meter the speaker will require 64 watts to produce a SPL of 102 dB, 124 watts to produce a SPL of 105 dB and 248 watts for 108 dB SPL. An average SPL of 105 dB is very loud however for peak SPL it is well within the normal SPL dynamics of an action move sound track and for the low frequency effects 102 dB is just getting started since the acoustic threshold of feeling (pain) is 120 dB.

[m6bigdog]

Originally Posted by jcs913

... When I listen to movies or music, 0 is never in the picture, as it is too loud. Not counting dial norm and any other additives, is generally 0 the reference level for that receiver?

Here is a web page that explains human hearing and abolute SPL.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...itivity-part-1

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Reference level would be 85dB, but that's pretty darn loud.

For hometheater reference level is 105db peak for the mains and surrounds, and 115db peak for the LFE. Calibration level is 75db.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

For hometheater reference level is 105db peak for the mains and surrounds, and 115db peak for the LFE. Calibration level is 75db.

Of course you're right.

Originally Posted by hometheaterhifi

Reference level is by any definition, objective or subjective, quite loud. It basically mirrors the dynamic range of the studio system, which in the case of all movie sound tracks, is 105 dB. Any single channel of the system is calibrated to play 0 dB FSD (the loudest sound the sound track can contain) at 105 dB (115 dB for the LFE channel).

But I was writing from memory to what I calibrated my system. Sorry

Originally Posted by SVS

As the tones start, alternating, speaker to speaker (watching your sound meter now) set each speaker’s volume to 75 dB or 85dB (depending on your tone source), using the receiver’s channel controls. Not all test disks or receivers are the same when it comes to calibration tones however, if using a test DVD like Video Essentials should allow you to calibrate reference level at 75dB. Ovation's "Avia" DVD is recorded at a higher level to improve signal to noise ratios during calibration, so you need to measure instead to 85dB for all channels if you use it and not Video Essentials).

I have AVIA

[ClaytonMG]

So basically, if you play a test tone from a certain channel once everything is set up (as in speaker levels), to acheive the reference level would require you to turn the sound up until the SPL reads 85, right? If that's right, than that's about 10-15db higher than what I watch my movies in. But I am not sure if I am doing it right...

[rogman]

Originally Posted by jcs913

I am curious as to what people define as 'reference level' on their receiver? If I am correct, reference level is generally defined as 0 on their receiver, no + or - db at all. When I listen to movies or music, 0 is never in the picture, as it is too loud. Not counting dial norm and any other additives, is generally 0 the reference level for that receiver?

You are correct that the reference level on a receiver is "0", and you're correct that it's REALLY loud. Someone else mentioned 85db which is what I've heard, but "0" on your receiver will vary in actual decibal level depending on the resistance of your speakers. The higher the resistance, the lower the volume. If you're using a THX receiver and THX receiver, then I suppose you'd get exactly 85db (though I'm not sure at what distance that's measured.)

The reference level of 85db is supposedly what the sound engineers use when they're mixing the audio. So, at 85db you're hearing what they're hearing when they mix. However, if mixing is done on a large soundstage, that's a bit different the the average home theater.

I've had my Pioneer Elite VSX92-TXI up to +3 while listening to the PCM track of AC/DC Live. I doubt I'd do that again. I wanted to see how loud it really was, and if that volume would introduce any distortion in the speakers (Aperion 533T, 533VAC, 534SS, 12" sub) or receiver. The sound was crisp and clean! I had my SPL meter out, I think it hit about 95db, but I'm not real sure. I don't think I'll try it again to confirm.

I've found I watch most movies at -15db to -18db, and that's loud enough to hear dialogue clearly yet still get the full effect from explosions, etc. When I'm home alone, I'll go a bit higher. With the AC/DC disc I mentioned, I usually listen to that around -8db and that's plenty loud!

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by rogman

You are correct that the reference level on a receiver is "0", and you're correct that it's REALLY loud. Someone else mentioned 85db which is what I've heard, but "0" on your receiver will vary in actual decibal level depending on the resistance of your speakers. The higher the resistance, the lower the volume. If you're using a THX receiver and THX receiver, then I suppose you'd get exactly 85db (though I'm not sure at what distance that's measured.)

The reference level of 85db is supposedly what the sound engineers use when they're mixing the audio. So, at 85db you're hearing what they're hearing when they mix. However, if mixing is done on a large soundstage, that's a bit different the the average home theater.

I've had my Pioneer Elite VSX92-TXI up to +3 while listening to the PCM track of AC/DC Live. I doubt I'd do that again. I wanted to see how loud it really was, and if that volume would introduce any distortion in the speakers (Aperion 533T, 533VAC, 534SS, 12" sub) or receiver. The sound was crisp and clean! I had my SPL meter out, I think it hit about 95db, but I'm not real sure. I don't think I'll try it again to confirm.

I've found I watch most movies at -15db to -18db, and that's loud enough to hear dialogue clearly yet still get the full effect from explosions, etc. When I'm home alone, I'll go a bit higher. With the AC/DC disc I mentioned, I usually listen to that around -8db and that's plenty loud!

Thanks, as that was the answer to my question, in general terms, not scientific. I also have the 92 and have listened to the Dave Matthews BD disc at +5 before my NHT's started to sound distorted. I did push it to the 0, but it was so loud I couldn't hear the music that well anyway.