Defraging a ps3's hard drive - Blu-ray Forum

Gamekid · 04-23-2008, 04:09 PM

One of the biggest enemies of a hard drive is fragmentation. This is a big problem with using a desktop computer or a laptop. When using a ps3, is the hard drive subject to fragmentation and if so, is it a concern?

The Don · 04-23-2008, 04:21 PM

it's not a concern since the PS3 does not require all those files...everything is in it's place...

Gamekid · 04-23-2008, 04:23 PM

I didn't know that.

un4gvn94538 · 04-23-2008, 04:23 PM

ive read where peoples ps3 would automatically go to "rebuilding data base" then be normal. im thinking this might be ps3s own defrag. but no one can say what it really does

dk3dknight · 04-23-2008, 04:25 PM

That sounds more like the hard drive index collapsed on itself, and it had to rebuild the tables..

alphapyro · 04-23-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don

it's not a concern since the PS3 does not require all those files...everything is in it's place...

I'd really like to see supporting facts regarding such a general statement. Perhaps the PS3 indexes all the files on the hard drive... but if you are able to delete files on the hard drive and add files to the hard drive, it's invariably going to cause gaps between data. So the question is does the PS3 automatically compensate for this, and if so, how?

Kuraudo · 04-23-2008, 04:50 PM

I'm not so sure about any of this.
You see , on the MAC osx, the hard drives if used exclusively in OSX
do not fragment the same way and not as much.

If PS3 OS is any bit similar (based closer to unix/linux than windows)
then perhaps it won't be a problem.

If there is any clarity out there , I'd like to know.

CptGreedle · 04-23-2008, 04:53 PM

I agree. It doesn't have an entire computer OS architecture to deal with, and it is not windows based... so it is likely to not have the same problem. I defrag my PC every month, I rarely defrag my mac... I think I do that once a year.
The PS3 mostly has the OS, game/music/movie/photo data, and updates. It should be easy enough to prevent fragmenting on the game/music/movie/photo files.

owa · 04-23-2008, 05:02 PM

Maybe a backup, format, restore would work (if it -- defrag -- is even needed and I doubt that it is).

Anyway, I use to have a really good link on this that explained why it's more of an issue for Windows and not that much of a problem for linux/UNIX. I can't seem to find it now though.

Here's another explanation that I just found on why Linux (and UNIX) computers don't normally have to deal with this.

http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/ind..._defragmenting

If you look up defragmentation on wiki, it touches on it as well.

Is the PS3 based on linux or do they just support it being installed and use some custom/proprietary solution. If it's not based on linux, the above may not be applicable but without an option to defrag, I'd think they must be handling it in some manner or they're using something that doesn't need it.

brett_day · 04-23-2008, 05:13 PM

every hard drive regardless of the OS or the system that it is installed in will fragment over time! It is an evil that will not go away due to the way that information is stored on them.

If you have a brand new hard drive and save a file to it that is 5k. that save file will take up spaces 1 thru 5. now if you save another file that is 5k it will take up the next 5 spaces. so you now have the first 10 spaces of that hard drive taken up.

Now if you delete the the first save you made the first 5 spaces will open up again. Next thing you save is 6k.....the comp will look and will see that the first 5 spaces are open and will place 5k of the 6k in those spaces, the extra 1k will go after the second save you made and will be placed in space 11, giving you fragmentation.

no matter what system you are using this will happen....not thru fault of the os but it is a limitation of hard drive technology. So wether you have xp or osx or just a few folders to deal with like the ps3 (movie/music) etc you will get fragmentation, which over time will slow down your system....i bet that in a future firmware update a defrag option will be available

Gamekid · 04-23-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett_day

every hard drive regardless of the OS or the system that it is installed in will fragment over time! It is an evil that will not go away due to the way that information is stored on them.

If you have a brand new hard drive and save a file to it that is 5k. that save file will take up spaces 1 thru 5. now if you save another file that is 5k it will take up the next 5 spaces. so you now have the first 10 spaces of that hard drive taken up.

Now if you delete the the first save you made the first 5 spaces will open up again. Next thing you save is 6k.....the comp will look and will see that the first 5 spaces are open and will place 5k of the 6k in those spaces, the extra 1k will go after the second save you made and will be placed in space 11, giving you fragmentation.

no matter what system you are using this will happen....not thru fault of the os but it is a limitation of hard drive technology. So wether you have xp or osx or just a few folders to deal with like the ps3 (movie/music) etc you will get fragmentation, which over time will slow down your system....i bet that in a future firmware update a defrag option will be available

If Sony does a defrag option, will that be any good? Not every program out there does a good job of defraging a hard drive.

Shin-Ra · 04-23-2008, 05:16 PM

That's like asking if GTA V will be any good.

CptGreedle · 04-23-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owa

Maybe a backup, format, restore would work (if it -- defrag -- is even needed and I doubt that it is).

Anyway, I use to have a really good link on this that explained why it's more of an issue for Windows and not that much of a problem for linux/UNIX. I can't seem to find it now though.

Here's another explanation that I just found on why Linux (and UNIX) computers don't normally have to deal with this.

http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/ind..._defragmenting

If you look up defragmentation on wiki, it touches on it as well.

Is the PS3 based on linux or do they just support it being installed and use some custom/proprietary solution. If it's not based on linux, the above may not be applicable but without an option to defrag, I'd think they must be handling it in some manner or they're using something that doesn't need it.

great explanation.
Thanks for the link.

Yes hard drives of all types will/can fragment if they get too full, but windows is particularly bad at it and needs a defrag tool to keep things running smoothly, while other systems don't need it as much.

If it ever gets to a point that your stuff won't fit on your PS3 or it gets fragmented, backup everything and put in a bigger drive.
If the backup tool stores the fragmenting than you should backup stuff manually. I doubt that would be a problem though. I just added a 160GB to my PS3 and love it!

Gamekid · 04-23-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

That's like asking if GTA V will be any good.

The only reason that I'm asking is because say that Sony does include a defrag option in the future, would everyone like it? Would it do a good job of defraging the hard drive?

Shin-Ra · 04-23-2008, 05:19 PM

We can't see into the future.

Snowgod · 04-23-2008, 05:22 PM

They may use write combining where files are optimized each time they are used (like the MacOSX) so that they are not fragmented.

Lucy Diamond · 04-23-2008, 05:23 PM

Um...PS3...Ultimate Power in the Universe.

brett_day · 04-23-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamekid

The only reason that I'm asking is because say that Sony does include a defrag option in the future, would everyone like it? Would it do a good job of defraging the hard drive?

i am pretty sure sony would not include something that would/could compromise the ps3. I am sure their group of developers will be more than capable of making a good defrag program

dk3dknight · 04-23-2008, 06:44 PM

Well that asks a very important question, does a hypervisor need defragging?

richieb1971 · 04-23-2008, 09:43 PM

The operating system is stored in flash memory right? Therefore the only files that would be defragged are those that you put on it. If I defrag my external drive it hardly does anything and thats got tons of files on it.

If all the files you put on it are huge, defragging isn't going to be a problem. The PS3 performance so far is perfect, I don't see how much better performance could be.

04-23-2008, 04:09 PM	#1
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	Defraging a ps3's hard drive One of the biggest enemies of a hard drive is fragmentation. This is a big problem with using a desktop computer or a laptop. When using a ps3, is the hard drive subject to fragmentation and if so, is it a concern?

04-23-2008, 05:02 PM	#9
owa Blu-ray Knight Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 96	Maybe a backup, format, restore would work (if it -- defrag -- is even needed and I doubt that it is). Anyway, I use to have a really good link on this that explained why it's more of an issue for Windows and not that much of a problem for linux/UNIX. I can't seem to find it now though. Here's another explanation that I just found on why Linux (and UNIX) computers don't normally have to deal with this. http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/ind..._defragmenting If you look up defragmentation on wiki, it touches on it as well. Is the PS3 based on linux or do they just support it being installed and use some custom/proprietary solution. If it's not based on linux, the above may not be applicable but without an option to defrag, I'd think they must be handling it in some manner or they're using something that doesn't need it. Last edited by owa; 04-23-2008 at 05:05 PM.

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04-23-2008, 04:21 PM	#2
The Don Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Apr 2006 Blu-ray reviews:12 Trading Score:2	it's not a concern since the PS3 does not require all those files...everything is in it's place...

04-23-2008, 04:23 PM	#3
Gamekid Power Member Member since:Feb 2006	I didn't know that.

04-23-2008, 04:23 PM	#4
un4gvn94538 Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Limbo (Bakersfield, Ca.) 4K collection:143 Blu-ray collection:811 DVD collection:54 Digital collection:1494 Trading Score:277	ive read where peoples ps3 would automatically go to "rebuilding data base" then be normal. im thinking this might be ps3s own defrag. but no one can say what it really does

04-23-2008, 04:25 PM	#5
dk3dknight Blu-ray Ninja Member since:May 2007 Location:Arlington, Texas PSNetwork: dk3dknight PostCount: 0001 Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews: 2	That sounds more like the hard drive index collapsed on itself, and it had to rebuild the tables..

04-23-2008, 04:50 PM	#7
Kuraudo Active Member Member since:Feb 2008	I'm not so sure about any of this. You see , on the MAC osx, the hard drives if used exclusively in OSX do not fragment the same way and not as much. If PS3 OS is any bit similar (based closer to unix/linux than windows) then perhaps it won't be a problem. If there is any clarity out there , I'd like to know.

04-23-2008, 04:53 PM	#8
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	I agree. It doesn't have an entire computer OS architecture to deal with, and it is not windows based... so it is likely to not have the same problem. I defrag my PC every month, I rarely defrag my mac... I think I do that once a year. The PS3 mostly has the OS, game/music/movie/photo data, and updates. It should be easy enough to prevent fragmenting on the game/music/movie/photo files.

04-23-2008, 05:13 PM	#10
brett_day Blu-ray Guru Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Moore, Oklahoma Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray collection:45 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	every hard drive regardless of the OS or the system that it is installed in will fragment over time! It is an evil that will not go away due to the way that information is stored on them. If you have a brand new hard drive and save a file to it that is 5k. that save file will take up spaces 1 thru 5. now if you save another file that is 5k it will take up the next 5 spaces. so you now have the first 10 spaces of that hard drive taken up. Now if you delete the the first save you made the first 5 spaces will open up again. Next thing you save is 6k.....the comp will look and will see that the first 5 spaces are open and will place 5k of the 6k in those spaces, the extra 1k will go after the second save you made and will be placed in space 11, giving you fragmentation. no matter what system you are using this will happen....not thru fault of the os but it is a limitation of hard drive technology. So wether you have xp or osx or just a few folders to deal with like the ps3 (movie/music) etc you will get fragmentation, which over time will slow down your system....i bet that in a future firmware update a defrag option will be available

04-23-2008, 05:16 PM	#12
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	That's like asking if GTA V will be any good.

04-23-2008, 05:19 PM	#15
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	We can't see into the future.

04-23-2008, 05:22 PM	#16
Snowgod Active Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Central NH	They may use write combining where files are optimized each time they are used (like the MacOSX) so that they are not fragmented.

04-23-2008, 05:23 PM	#17
Lucy Diamond Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Apr 2008 Location:The Tomb of Annihilation 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Digital collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:3	Um...PS3...Ultimate Power in the Universe.

04-23-2008, 06:44 PM	#19
dk3dknight Blu-ray Ninja Member since:May 2007 Location:Arlington, Texas PSNetwork: dk3dknight PostCount: 0001 Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews: 2	Well that asks a very important question, does a hypervisor need defragging?

04-23-2008, 09:43 PM	#20
richieb1971 Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 4K collection:89 Blu-ray collection:706 Trading Score:16	The operating system is stored in flash memory right? Therefore the only files that would be defragged are those that you put on it. If I defrag my external drive it hardly does anything and thats got tons of files on it. If all the files you put on it are huge, defragging isn't going to be a problem. The PS3 performance so far is perfect, I don't see how much better performance could be.

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