The Criterion Collection

[smoss469]

Originally Posted by spanky87

They are excellent. I have Touch of Evil and it includes all cuts of the film as well as different ratios, so it's a pretty definitive set. Also have the Double Indemnity blu ray and while it is very good, Criterion might be able to improve the video quality a bit if they release it.

I've found about 5-6 BD releases that I couldn't find US versions for, good to hear they're at least good, if not great in some cases. The Touch of Evil release was one I was checking out and the multiple versions really intrigued me.

[Zen_Amako]

Originally Posted by spanky87

What's so bad about the DVD? I have it on hold at the library.

Actually, if it's the MGM DVD, you're good. The first region 1 DVD was from some company called Razor and that version was really bad. I was thinking of that disc.

[SammyJankis]

Just watched part one of Shoah. Will refrain from judging it as a whole at the moment, but whatever I end up saying by the end will probably be just a reiteration of everything that has already been said. It's not an easy sitting, and it's not something I'm eager to finish soon, but I plan on watching each part every night.

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by Zen_Amako

If Criterion were to release a Zhang Yimou film, I think it should be Raise the Red Lantern. It's available overseas on BD, but not with English subtitles. The DVD that was released years ago in North America was shameful. It's such a great film, and it was shot in three-strip Technicolor.

I want Criterion to due a Blu of Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring. That one is highly anticipated for me. I still have to check out Raise the Red Lantern...have always heard great things about it including amazing cinematography.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon would make a fine Criterion title.

I could see Into the Wild being picked up by the Collection as well.

As much as I would love for The American and The Grey to belong in the Collection, there is nothing wanting about the superb existing Blu-rays for these movies.

Not bad choices. I consider Into the Wild to be more of a drama than an action/adventure, but I own the BD release of this and I consider it excellent.

Originally Posted by EPlay

As far as modern action/adventure films, I would love to see Johnnie To in the Criterion collection. "The Mission" would be a wonderful place to start. I don't believe there has even been a quality DVD release of this anywhere. (I own the very poor Tai Seng release.)

With films like "Election", "Election 2", "Drug War" and "Running Out of Time", To is at the forefront of modern gritty Hong Kong action films.

I also would love to see Tsui Hark's "Time and Tide" as a Criterion, or any Blu release for that matter. While he usually does period films, this is one of the finest modern action films of the 2000's.

I think Asian samurai and period pieces get a lot more critical attention, but there's more to Asia than swords and wire-fu. Sure, "Hard Boiled" had a Criterion release, but there's since been a dry spell for that genre.

It seems like the only hope for Criterion to release any modern day action films would be through Asian cinema (Hong Kong cinema in particular). Are the best action films these days coming out of East Asia?

[brandon_260]

Just finished La Cage aux Folles. It didn't end up being as good as I expected, from both a dramatic and comedic perspective. The first half hour or so was particularity rough. Once the film started to settle in, I enjoyed it a little more, but it's still one of the more disappointing Criterion additions this year. Far from horrible (I think the film actually has some decent comments on gender roles), but I'm uncertain how often or soon I will revisit the film.

Does anyone know why the audio is dubbed and not live recorded?

[jw007]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I think we've had this argument before, but I think there are plenty of big money blockbusters that are good (or even very good) films. The problem, though, vis-à-vis Criterion, is that blockbuster action films that Criterion could afford are ones that they are unlikely to get licensed from the studios that own them.

Depends on how far back you want to go. If you're willing to go back to the days of laserdisc, they've had one Scott (Blade Runner) and one Spielberg (Close Encounters of the Third Kind).

And speaking of going back to the days of laserdisc...I feel I should say that when they were questioned about their inclusion of The Rock and Armageddon, they specifically said (though I'm sure it's more spin than anything else) that their intent was to include them as examples of exactly what you're looking for: big, blockbuster action movies. And 15 years later, they're still getting shît about it.

Anyway, if you want more examples of Criterion doing action/adventure films more recent than the late 60s, I would answer with (even though the DVDs are now OOP) Robocop, The Killer, and Hard-Boiled. And if you'll allow examples from the mid-to-late 60s, I'd add Branded to Kill, Tokyo Drifter and Z. Granted, the two Suzuki films are the only ones that Criterion has issued on Blu-ray, but at least in the case of the first three I listed, they are perfect examples of the aforementioned licensing issues. I have no doubt that if they still had the rights to those three, we'd be seeing them on Criterion Blus.

Originally Posted by jayembee

Depends on what you consider "great". That's the problem. I could easily name 5 such that I think are great, and would be good candidates for Criterion, but you might not agree that they are great (we've already argued about the worth of Abrams' Star Trek, for example). Not to mention the question of whether they've already gotten really good releases from their respective studios.

First two on my list would be Zhang Yimou's Hero and House of Flying Daggers. Others would be The Bourne Supremacy (my favorite of an altogether excellent action film franchise), Avatar (yes, I really do think it's a terrific film), and The Mummy (just the first one, though). And that's not even considering any superhero films.

Yes, it probably is a question of money. Criterion isn't a prosperous or blockbuster video distributor (but why not? they charge such high prices for their titles, shouldn't they be making quite the profit?). I guess in the world of video distribution, in order to create a quality product, the sacrifice must be made somewhere, and that is choosing non-blockbuster films to release (since licensing is more expensive). While it is difficult to create a big and successful action/adventure film with lavish sets while shooting with a small budget (obviously I'm referring to "big and successful" action/adventure films on par with the movies of James Cameron - The Abyss, Terminator, Titanic, etc.), it is also difficult to license such blockbuster films as well (if the money isn't there). So if this is all a question of money and Criterion not being able to afford blockbuster film distribution, I can understand this. This is probably a reason why Criterion is a niche distributor.

Perhaps, as you said, Criterion "got shît about it" for releasing movies like Armageddon and The Rock just to say they COULD distribute big blockbuster Hollywood films. Maybe they learned their lesson. And learning lessons costs money. Learning good lessons costs a lot of money. It is all a business after all.

I propose that The Abyss would make for a fine Criterion release and it would also put James Cameron into the Criterion Collection as well. This film STILL does not have a blu-ray release to this day! A movie of this caliber and history (first successful film to incorporate the wide use of CGI into the story I believe?) would be amazing. As far fetched as this sounds, who else thinks it would be amazing to see The Abyss as a Criterion release?

Why stop at Asian action cinema when there is so much more out there? There is plenty of modern American action cinema that can be incorporated into the Criterion Collection and I'm not just talking about Sylvester Stallone, Steven Seagal or Jean-Claude Van Damme films.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Zen_Amako

If Criterion were to release a Zhang Yimou film, I think it should be Raise the Red Lantern. It's available overseas on BD, but not with English subtitles. The DVD that was released years ago in North America was shameful. It's such a great film, and it was shot in three-strip Technicolor.

I can't disagree. That's one of my top wishes for a Criterion release, although it's in a fight for first place with Red Sorghum, which only got a pan-&-scan VHS release here in the US -- no LD, no DVD. Of course, I'd be happy if Criterion released all of his films, especially the older dramas.

Originally Posted by spanky87

What's so bad about the DVD? I have it on hold at the library.

Depends on which DVD. There's an MGM/UA edition from 2007 under their "World Films" banner that I haven't seen. The other one is a 2006 release from Razor Digital that's overcompressed, with dull and muddy colors.

A much better option would be to stream an HD version from

youtube

.

By the way, the Razor Digital edition claims a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, and according to the listing at Amazon, the MGM/UA edition does as well. This is wrong. The film was shot in a 1.85:1 ratio, and that's actually what the Razor edition is in.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jw007

Yes, it probably is a question of money. Criterion isn't a prosperous or blockbuster video distributor (but why not? they charge such high prices for their titles, shouldn't they be making quite the profit?).

They charge high prices, but they don't sell as many copies. Disney charges the same ($39.95) for many of their big titles, and they probably sell a couple of orders of magnitude more copies.

I guess in the world of video distribution, in order to create a quality product, the sacrifice must be made somewhere, and that is choosing non-blockbuster films to release (since licensing is more expensive). While it is difficult to create a big and successful action/adventure film with lavish sets while shooting with a small budget (obviously I'm referring to "big and successful" action/adventure films on par with the movies of James Cameron - The Abyss, Terminator, Titanic, etc.), it is also difficult to license such blockbuster films as well (if the money isn't there). So if this is all a question of money and Criterion not being able to afford blockbuster film distribution, I can understand this. This is probably a reason why Criterion is a niche distributor.

It's not just a question of money, but a willingness to license it on both parties' parts. The cost of a blockbuster action movie means that it's going to be largely restricted to the major studios, who aren't going to want to license the titles out to another label. Doing it themselves means more money for them. Disney, for example, might be happy to license out something like Armageddon or maybe even John Carter, but I can't see them being convinced to license out The Avengers.

Perhaps, as you said, Criterion "got shît about it" for releasing movies like Armageddon and The Rock just to say they COULD distribute big blockbuster Hollywood films. Maybe they learned their lesson. And learning lessons costs money. Learning good lessons costs a lot of money. It is all a business after all.

Well, releasing those two movies on LD and DVD was actually a good business decision. Those were popular titles, and since Disney's distribution arm, Buena Vista, distributed them to the marketplace, they got wider exposure than anything else Criterion produced. They made a lot of money, which Criterion used to finance all of the other titles that only the cinephiles were interested in.

When I said that they "got shît about it", I meant the criticisms from people who felt that Criterion might've sold out, and was perhaps soiling their reputation as a purveyor of cinematic art.

I propose that The Abyss would make for a fine Criterion release and it would also put James Cameron into the Criterion Collection as well. This film STILL does not have a blu-ray release to this day! A movie of this caliber and history (first successful film to incorporate the wide use of CGI into the story I believe?) would be amazing. As far fetched as this sounds, who else thinks it would be amazing to see The Abyss as a Criterion release?

I think it'd be a great choice. I'm not sure that Criterion could come up with any worthwhile extras that Fox didn't already do for their Special Edition LD and DVD, though.

Why stop at Asian action cinema when there is so much more out there? There is plenty of modern American action cinema that can be incorporated into the Criterion Collection and I'm not just talking about Sylvester Stallone, Steven Seagal or Jean-Claude Van Damme films.

The advantage of Asian action movies is that they're not owned by the big studios. Then again, you have things like the latest SF/blockbuster to come out of Asia (Snowpiercer) that got bought by the Weinsteins, and apparently, like The Grandmaster, will be chopped down by 20 minutes for US release.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by Roninblues

Nice timing. I just watched the extras on To's Mad Detective and The Mission was mentioned. I had to pull out my DVD and re-watch it as it had been a couple of years. I may have pull out The Heroic Trio tomorrow.

The Heroic Trio, The Executioners, and Wing Chun are three of my favorite Michelle Yeoh films. I own very old dvd editions of them.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

The Heroic Trio, The Executioners, and Wing Chun are three of my favorite Michelle Yeoh films. I own very old dvd editions of them.

I own even older LD editions of them.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by jw007

I'm not asking for movies like that, I'm just asking for more newer action/adventure films to be represented in the collection. The fact that Criterion once released The Rock, Robocop and Armageddon in their collection is proof that they actually believe in the big blockbuster-Bruckheimer-type movies and think they have "a place" in their collection. Let's see some blu-ray upgrades then!

There are stories about the Rock and Armageddon releases (I love The Rock as a film), that CC did them as a result of their close relationship with Michael Bay, in a symbiosis wherein CC would make good sales with which to fund their pet projects, while Bay's and the movie's virtues would get touted. IIRC, This was back in the day when CC was still finding its feet in terms of there being a sustainable market for quality cinema on premium price definitive home video releases. Also, then few of the major studios were doing substantial bonus features for their DVD releases.
But now when bonus features and premium packaging on most major blockbusters are a given (except when they sell them off to various exclusive retailers ), there would be no unique stamp given by Criterion to these releases.

[jlk5844]

I noticed in the thread for Leaving Las Vegas that the director is talking to Criterion about extras for it's 20th anniversary release next year (even though it came out in 1995). Could this film actually be getting a Criterion next year?

[jw007]

Originally Posted by jayembee

They charge high prices, but they don't sell as many copies. Disney charges the same ($39.95) for many of their big titles, and they probably sell a couple of orders of magnitude more copies.

When I said that they "got shît about it", I meant the criticisms from people who felt that Criterion might've sold out, and was perhaps soiling their reputation as a purveyor of cinematic art.

Yes... I noticed Disney's Wall-E was priced at $40 at Barnes & Noble today. That makes sense that Criterion just doesn't sell as much as a company such as Disney would.

I can also see how Criterion was "experimenting" (if that is the right word to use) with those blockbuster films back in the DVD days. I think "selling out" is a big fear for sure. I can see how critics ate Criterion up.

Good points made on everything else.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by ravenus

There are stories about the Rock and Armageddon releases (I love The Rock as a film), that CC did them as a result of their close relationship with Michael Bay, in a symbiosis wherein CC would make good sales with which to fund their pet projects, while Bay's and the movie's virtues would get touted. IIRC, This was back in the day when CC was still finding its feet in terms of there being a sustainable market for quality cinema on premium price definitive home video releases. Also, then few of the major studios were doing substantial bonus features for their DVD releases.
But now when bonus features and premium packaging on most major blockbusters are a given (except when they sell them off to various exclusive retailers ), there would be no unique stamp given by Criterion to these releases.

Thanks for that explanation as it makes sense. I think it would be far more difficult today trying to create original bonus features and "supplements" as Criterion calls them with all the licensing and copyright issues from the major movie studios. If critics thought Criterion had almost started selling out about 10 years ago with those M. Bay releases, well that was corrected pretty fast. I won't criticize Criterion anymore on the lack of action/adventure films. As simplistic as this sounds, they are a niche distributor and that means you're not going to get newer mainstream Hollywood films (but maybe every now and then you could see one pop up in the collection).

[ravenus]

^It is of course possible that they could do modern action-ers from non-Hollywood sources, assuming those are worthy of doing. It would be amazing if they could do the Thai blockbuster Bang-Rajan, a terrific example of a kickass guerilla war film made on a tiny budget. I have the lovely 2-DVD set from UK's Premier Asia, but I don't think there has been a worthy US release of this film (there's a shabby 1-DVD release that as per Amazon's running time of 71 min is cropped of some 40 min worth of footage ).

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by jlk5844

I noticed in the thread for Leaving Las Vegas that the director is talking to Criterion about extras for it's 20th anniversary release next year (even though it came out in 1995). Could this film actually be getting a Criterion next year?

The word around the campfire is that Mike Figgis mentioned a possible Criterion release of Leaving Las Vegas for its 20th anniversary, but nothing is written in stone yet.

I rented Leaving Las Vegas on VHS back in 1996 or so. I thought that it was a superb and emotionally-wrought film, but once is enough for me.

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by EPlay

As far as modern action/adventure films, I would love to see Johnnie To in the Criterion collection. "The Mission" would be a wonderful place to start. I don't believe there has even been a quality DVD release of this anywhere. (I own the very poor Tai Seng release.)

You rock!

It's rare for me to find anyone else who likes that film. I have suggested it to Criterion several times over the years. I would love to see a decent release of it. I just own the horrible HK DVD release which is on par with the Tai Seng. But at least I got to see it in the cinema in a Johnnie To retrospective some 10-12 years ago.

[blkhrt]

Originally Posted by Lordy

I've sent an e-mail to Amazon asking why the Criterion Collection's Jan. 2014 announced releases for blu-ray are not yet available for pre-order. Somebody at Amazon has dropped the ball.

How do you know it is Amazon's fault? The rumor is that Criterion is changing distribution companies, so I imagine it has something to do with that.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I rented Leaving Las Vegas on VHS back in 1996 or so. I thought that it was a superb and emotionally-wrought film, but once is enough for me.

I saw it in the theater. To quote a friend of mine about another movie: "It's one of the best films I've ever seen, and I hope to God I never see it again."