Code Red Blu-ray Discussion Thread (RIP Bill "Bananaman" Olsen)

[Member-222782]

I thought the film looked better than it ever has, especially the night sequences. Let's face it, there isn't going to be a 4k remaster - this is it. If you're a fan of this film there's no doubt this will be the best there is - go for it.

[fuzzymctiger]

I have this on order, never seen it, but I will most certainly keep it. I'll probably start collecting Code Red blu rays.

I'm not fussed about the quality, because I've just been holding out solely for either a blu ray or an uncut version, and now I've got both.

[reece]

Originally Posted by raybestos

As to JUST BEFORE DAWN... I will not be supporting such a techically inferior encode. Can't believe folks are giving Code Red a pass on it... I mean, an an average video bitrate of 13000 kbps for 1080p material? That's about the lowest I can ever recall for a BD release, save the abominable DEADLY SPAWN fiasco. Folks who are OK with it are supporting the decision to cram 2 cuts on a BD25 with their wallets are telling Code Red and others that it's just fine to release a shoddy product and that it'll sell.

I realize it's a small company and BD50s are 'expensive' but I think he should have forgone the extended cut or charged $5 more to put it on a seperate BD25.

I'm the last person to give a pass to improper encoding and needless compression, but let's take a step back here and just look at this transfer objectively. You can't argue that this thing doesn't look gorgeous - full of natural filmic textures, lush colors, and excellent fine detail given the material. Now, there are is some noticeable black crush places, and if he hadn't crammed both cuts onto a BD25, it wouldn't be an issue. So yeah..that part isn't ideal, but it doesn't change the fact that disc looks far better than countless BD50s out there of similar material that nobody is complaining about. Just sayin...

[HorrorBlu]

^ "I will not be supporting" and the rest of the post implied that they refused to buy the disc based on the technical specs posted here (two versions on a BD25, etc). So it doesn't sound like that person has seen it.

[Goremeister100]

Originally Posted by raybestos

As to JUST BEFORE DAWN... I will not be supporting such a techically inferior encode. Can't believe folks are giving Code Red a pass on it... I mean, an an average video bitrate of 13000 kbps for 1080p material? That's about the lowest I can ever recall for a BD release, save the abominable DEADLY SPAWN fiasco. Folks who are OK with it are supporting the decision to cram 2 cuts on a BD25 with their wallets are telling Code Red and others that it's just fine to release a shoddy product and that it'll sell.

I realize it's a small company and BD50s are 'expensive' but I think he should have forgone the extended cut or charged $5 more to put it on a seperate BD25.

I'm quite surprised that more people aren't *****ing. If this was an Arrow or Shout release, they would never live it down. Even Shriek Show has done better. I guess most people are like "hell, at least it's better than the dvd". I fall in that group but I know they could have done better especially for the price they're asking. No one has commented on the framing yet since I know many complained about that on the Shriek Show dvd. Chapter stops are the least they could do on the main menu. How much work can that be? I guess we should be happy that it has a main menu since VOICES FROM BEYOND doesn't even have one. Anyways, I didn't buy the disc but if I paid over 30 bucks for this I wouldn't be too happy because I am a big fan of the film and I think it deserves better.

As for the compression issue, I guess folks with 50+ inch screens won't be too happy. Those with 40 and under probably won't complain much. The right thing to do would have been to release it on a BD50 or 2 BD25s but your average Joe won't complain about compression artifacts. Especially your average Joe with a smaller tv.

[raybestos]

Originally Posted by reece

I'm the last person to give a pass to improper encoding and needless compression, but let's take a step back here and just look at this transfer objectively. You can't argue that this thing doesn't look gorgeous - full of natural filmic textures, lush colors, and excellent fine detail given the material. Now, there are is some noticeable black crush places, and if he hadn't crammed both cuts onto a BD25, it wouldn't be an issue. So yeah..that part isn't ideal, but it doesn't change the fact that disc looks far better than countless BD50s out there of similar material that nobody is complaining about. Just sayin...

You make a very good point, and it mollifies my attitude somewhat. But, when I see a retail disc released with such inferior encoding and compression, it just screams to me "We don't really know what we're doing with this Blu-Ray thing, we'll go for quantity vs quality, and call this one a cashgrab." Yes, the print of JBD is an excellent quality one, no doubts about that. However, Code Red needlessly muddied very good source material (a well-detailed, good film print) by their overcompressing the theatrical cut. Sure, it looks better than the DVD, but for the want of $5, it could have looked *a lot* better.

[horrorscreamer]

Wow it has got to suck to be a horror distributor these days, I remember when we were complaining about 4:3 DVDs with VHS-looking transfers and yet we bought them because we had no other option. Now here we are complaining about a slightly lower than normal bitrate on a blu-ray in its original aspect ratio which is, let's face it, pretty gorgeous. I have a 60" TV and it looks just fine to me. People really are becoming too spoiled with quality these days, I'm just happy as long as I don't get some upscaled crap (I'm looking at you 3L Entertainment from Germany).

[Undeadcow]

Has there been any indication of how profitable these blu-ray titles have been for Code Red? Hopefully we get more coming from them.

Originally Posted by reece

...it doesn't change the fact that disc looks far better than countless BD50s out there of similar material that nobody is complaining about. Just sayin...

Well said, it's oxymoronic how how brand name pick some cult fans are.

Originally Posted by raybestos

..."We don't really know what we're doing with this Blu-Ray thing, we'll go for quantity vs quality, and call this one a cashgrab" ...for the want of $5, it could have looked *a lot* better.

I don't think Code Red is money grubbing to maximize their profit, given the niche titles they carry, it seems more likely they needed to make an economical decision to release the title at all. Bill was very open about his hesitance to release blu-rays so it makes sense the first release would include some more conservative measures (since it sounds like he expected to take a loss). Given the hiatus of many more requested titles, it's a miracle to see this output on blu-ray at all and as glorious looking as it is.

[captainjoe]

Watched Just Before Dawn last night on a 56 inch DLP and I gotta say there weren't any blatant compression issues. I've seen a lot of scream factory releases with a higher bit rate look more pixelated than this title. I'm sure more disc space given to the movie would've produced better results but I think people skipping out on this release just because it occasionally drops into the low teens are really missing out. It's still worthy of being in your collection if you're a fan of the film like myself.

[Alfredlynch]

Alright! I just received Just Before Dawn in the mail today! Cool.

[sethdlh]

Bit the bullet on these titles last week got them today. I was really debating grabbing these but now that they're in my hands I am glad I went ahead and ordered them.

[Brian81]

Lost my willpower and gave 'Voices from Beyond' another chance. I shouldn't have. Years later, it's just as terrible. I was kind of hoping I'd like it more this time around, given 'Aenigma' seemed more enjoyable the last go-around. Fulci at this stage in his career was worse than Jess Franco in the 80s ('Oasis', 'Faceless', etc). Bad photography, music, screenplay, directing, and acting.

As far as the disc authoring goes, this is the worst authoring job on a disc I've seen in a LONG time. It reminds me of an old Vestron videodisc where there were no chapter stops for the entire movie. There are chapter stops here, however the following things are not enabled by the disc:


Pause
Forward
Reverse
Time Info (so you know where you are at)
Chapter Number


Yes, you can't even PAUSE the disc, or 'rewind' back if you missed a piece of dialogue. What a joke. And going into disc info on the player, no chapter numbers are listed, no time, and the front panel display for my Oppo just says 'Main Menu' for the entire playback of the movie.

The only thing besides Play and Stop that you can do is advance the chapter back and forth.

So, so lazy.


As far as the video transfer goes, it looks alright. Definitely HD looking, though compression looks iffy and credits smear really bad. I don't think it was worth the price I paid from Code Red direct. The lack of Pause , FF/RW, and a time counter is inexcusable.

[redrunner97]

Not true. My disc pauses, I didnt expect it to because I had heard it didnt pause, but I did pause it and it stopped, the pause logo on my ps3 popped up and I went to my kitchen, came back, pressed play and it started again.

Essentially, mine did pause.

[redrunner97]

Originally Posted by Undeadcow

Has there been any indication of how profitable these blu-ray titles have been for Code Red? Hopefully we get more coming from them. Well said, it's oxymoronic how how brand name pick some cult fans are. I don't think Code Red is money grubbing to maximize their profit, given the niche titles they carry, it seems more likely they needed to make an economical decision to release the title at all. Bill was very open about his hesitance to release blu-rays so it makes sense the first release would include some more conservative measures (since it sounds like he expected to take a loss). Given the hiatus of many more requested titles, it's a miracle to see this output on blu-ray at all and as glorious looking as it is.

Not all of this is a direct response to you, but bear with me:

[Show spoiler]You are forgetting that Code Red sells direct. They are rolling in money charging the high prices and keeping 100% of the profit.

Shout or Scorpion typically charge way less and keep under half of the profit.

Therefore, Code Red is overcharging. Its very simple.

People need to stop treating Code Red like its underfunded. Hes tricking MORE people into buying more of his products thinking they are helping save his company or something.

Hes actually practicing good business, but this is just silly that people are falling for it.

and he's sold at least 600 copies of JBD, but still claiming he isnt moving any product? How? Thats a lot for selling them overpriced on an exclusively pay-pal only, limited, direct-selling, website.

Thats about 18,000 dollars. Definitely more than he paid prepping these, especially considering all of the corners he cut.

Im not hating on Code Red, these are just simple facts. I think they are being pretty smart on the business front.

[tenebre6]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

Not all of this is a direct response to you, but bear with me:

[Show spoiler]You are forgetting that Code Red sells direct. They are rolling in money charging the high prices and keeping 100% of the profit.

Shout or Scorpion typically charge way less and keep under half of the profit.

Therefore, Code Red is overcharging. Its very simple.

People need to stop treating Code Red like its underfunded. Hes tricking MORE people into buying more of his products thinking they are helping save his company or something.

Hes actually practicing good business, but this is just silly that people are falling for it.

and he's sold at least 600 copies of JBD, but still claiming he isnt moving any product? How? Thats a lot for selling them overpriced on an exclusively pay-pal only, limited, direct-selling, website.

Thats about 18,000 dollars. Definitely more than he paid prepping these, especially considering all of the corners he cut.

Im not hating on Code Red, these are just simple facts. I think they are being pretty smart on the business front.

you are forgetting costs of licensing, production, duplication, art, authorizing, mastering, encoding, and taxes .... regardless of quality all that has to be paid for

I have distributed films. none of this is free (even if you do it yourself you time counts not to mention the investment in equipment). He certainly is not rolling in any money.

[Undeadcow]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

...Code Red sells direct. They are rolling in money charging the high prices and keeping 100% of the profit...

Code Red produces smaller quantities of their titles, so their output is limited. Companies like Scream Factory or even Synapse Films can make less profit per film because they are selling larger quantities of the film to general audiences (this might also help reduce their per item cost for licensing, production, etc). Also keep in mind the MSRP of many other blu-ray labels is more expensive than the CR asking price.

I respect that Code Red is willing to release less in demand niche titles and feel that commands some premium in price (versus other studios who snub fan favorites because they "won't make enough money").

Originally Posted by redrunner97

...he's sold at least 600 copies of JBD, but still claiming he isnt moving any product? ...Thats about 18,000 dollars...

It doesn't seem like other publishers would be as thrilled about selling just 600 copies as you make it sound to be, that's hardly the yellow brick road to success. Assuming selling price is all profit, and it's not, less than 18k isn't really financial viability if that represents the prime income of a company, or even just one individual.

[Kentai]

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd guess that $18,000 would barely cover 35mm telecine (for 2 separate prints, remember), BD authoring, and disc replication costs on top of a potentially hefty licensing fee. Even if you can do everything "in house" with a minimal staff - which, I promise you, is the only sane way to rub a company like this - anyone who thinks Code Red is swimming in Scrooge McDuck cash really needs to look at the big picture, where DVD labels could release relatively well-known niche/cult films and still come up short selling less than 2,000 copies, even with Best Buy and Amazon in their corner.

Keep in mind he's also shipping the product and losing about 5% of every dollar to Paypal with that $30, so it's not like every penny goes straight back into Bill Olsen's pocket. Making money on films like this is brutal these days, and at this point he might be using these titles to test the waters, judge if there really is a market for HD releases or if the added costs are just not worth it. We'll see when - or rather, if - they announce a second wave of Blu-ray titles.


To put this another way, if studios like Scorpion Releasing and Vinnegar Syndrome are only selling 600 copies a piece, they won't be doing Blu-ray for much longer.

[redrunner97]

obviously, no one agrees with me, BUT whatevs.

Code Red knows how to make people want their product by stirring up controversy and making it seem like they need your money more than they do (although they do, they are a business, businesses run on money) , and that means they are accomplishing their goal as a business. Doesn't really matter how they do it.

again, not hating on code red, this is just my view on the entire situation:

Originally Posted by Kentai

We'll see when - or rather, if - they announce a second wave of Blu-ray titles.


To put this another way, if studios like Scorpion Releasing and Vinnegar Syndrome are only selling 600 copies a piece, they won't be doing Blu-ray for much longer.

- The spine numbers indicate that he already has plans for other blurays, and he's "announced" them too. He also traded Evilspeak for a new Nightmare interview. So, its safe to assume thats coming.

- Yeah, Walter (Scorpion) has already said selling direct and limited should be cheaper than 20 bucks, and if he ever sold direct they would certainly be. So, he could go down a few bucks if he wanted to.

and 600 is not his total sales number, they've only been available about 3 weeks. Plus, they are limited, so its not like they could sell 5 thousand copies or anything, and its doubtful any cult title would ever sell that many. 600 is big for Code Red and for an EXTREMELY EXCLUSIVE title at that.

[fuzzymctiger]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

obviously, no one agrees with me, BUT whatevs.

Code Red knows how to make people want their product by stirring up controversy and making it seem like they need your money more than they do (although they do, they are a business, businesses run on money) , and that means they are accomplishing their goal as a business. Doesn't really matter how they do it.

again, not hating on code red, this is just my view on the entire situation:



- The spine numbers indicate that he already has plans for other blurays, and he's "announced" them too. He also traded Evilspeak for a new Nightmare interview. So, its safe to assume thats coming.

- Yeah, Walter (Scorpion) has already said selling direct and limited should be cheaper than 20 bucks, and if he ever sold direct they would certainly be. So, he could go down a few bucks if he wanted to.

and 600 is not his total sales number, they've only been available about 3 weeks. Plus, they are limited, so its not like they could sell 5 thousand copies or anything, and its doubtful any cult title would ever sell that many. 600 is big for Code Red and for an EXTREMELY EXCLUSIVE title at that.

I thought what he said was that he only had 600 copies left, because they sold out at one point, and he posted about having 600 copies some where to out back up.

So if the estimates of how limited it is were right. He's sold 1400-2400.

And that is certainly a good job considering the price, even with the rest taken into account. If 600 copies just scrapes cost, then he was about another 800 minimum of just disc costs and profit?

[BrianS]

Originally Posted by Brian81

. There are chapter stops here, however the following things are not enabled by the disc:


Pause
Forward
Reverse
Time Info (so you know where you are at)
Chapter Number


Yes, you can't even PAUSE the disc, or 'rewind' back if you missed a piece of dialogue. What a joke. And going into disc info on the player, no chapter numbers are listed, no time, and the front panel display for my Oppo just says 'Main Menu' for the entire playback of the movie.

The only thing besides Play and Stop that you can do is advance the chapter back and forth.

So, so lazy.

.

I can confirm that on my Sony & Panasonic blu-ray players that I can pause, fast forward, reverse, and there IS a time counter telling me exactly where I am.