British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[EddieLarkin]

Got my Phantom disc, a few thoughts:

Unlike the Park Circus/Image disc that comes with two versions of the 1929 version at different speeds, this disc contains one. It is the slower 20fps version, though the box claims it is in 1080p24. Presumably it has frame duplication like Passion of Joan and Battleship Potemkin etc. I checked and indeed the majority of the film runs at 5 unique frames, 1 repeat, and so on, for a total of 20 unique, 4 repeat frames per second (strangely, parts of the film run differently; unsure what's going on there).

For those who don't like this method, the Park Circus/Image disc 20fps is interlaced, so a comparison might be apt.

Comparing the two 20fps versions, the new BFI disc shows much less damage. It's practically pristine compared to the Park Circus/Image disc. The 24fps version on the latter looks a lot better, but still not as good as the BFI.

The biggest and most important change (imo), is the superior Photoplay tinting. On the Park Circus/Image disc, almost the whole film is in sepia (including the pillar bars, which was VERY distracting), whilst the BFI disc has a lovely varied palette; deep blues and purples, strong greens and yellows. It is far more pleasurable a viewing experience.

The biggest negative of the BFI disc is that the Bal Masque sequence, plus a few other shots, are heavily windowboxed for some reason. This obviously has something to do with the Photoplay restoration, but I'm unsure why it couldn't be fixed for the Blu-ray. Definition during the Bal Masque sequence is quite poor compared to the Park Circus/Image release, though colour is still vastly superior. The Park Circus/Image disc looks very washed out and drab during the Bal Masque, whilst the BFI disc is much more striking and rich (though obviously has severe colour bleeding, and perhaps is over saturated).

You've got one score on the BFI disc, by Carl Davis. The Park Circus/Image had 3 score options across the two 1929 versions. I can't comment which I prefer yet, though Carl Davis is probably the bigger name out of all four, and I've always found his work exemplary.

The 1925 version, here as a bonus feature, looks pretty awful. It has poor definition and very heavy damage. Still, it's in HD and is more than watchable, something which could not really be said for the SD version included on the Park Circus/Image disc. It is in the wider ratio of 1.33:1, entirely in black and white.

It too appears to run at 20fps, in 1080p24, with 5 unique frames, 1 repeat. It's interesting to note that the SD version on the Park Circus/Image disc runs 10 minutes longer than this release. I don't think the BFI disc can have less footage since they're both from the one surviving 16mm print, so presumably the Park Circus/Image SD version runs even slower than 20fps (indeed, if you calculate the percentage difference between the run times, it's pretty much 10%, which would mean the SD one runs at 18fps)

Anyway, it's a great disc that I personally think is much better than the Park Circus/Image one, but perhaps not great enough to replace it entirely.

[insomniac013]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

[Show spoiler]Got my Phantom disc, a few thoughts:

Unlike the Park Circus/Image disc that comes with two versions of the 1929 version at different speeds, this disc contains one. It is the slower 20fps version, though the box claims it is in 1080p24. Presumably it has frame duplication like Passion of Joan and Battleship Potemkin etc. I checked and indeed the majority of the film runs at 5 unique frames, 1 repeat, and so on, for a total of 20 unique, 4 repeat frames per second (strangely, parts of the film run differently; unsure what's going on there).

For those who don't like this method, the Park Circus/Image disc 20fps is interlaced, so a comparison might be apt.

Comparing the two 20fps versions, the new BFI disc shows much less damage. It's practically pristine compared to the Park Circus/Image disc. The 24fps version on the latter looks a lot better, but still not as good as the BFI.

The biggest and most important change (imo), is the superior Photoplay tinting. On the Park Circus/Image disc, almost the whole film is in sepia (including the pillar bars, which was VERY distracting), whilst the BFI disc has a lovely varied palette; deep blues and purples, strong greens and yellows. It is far more pleasurable a viewing experience.

The biggest negative of the BFI disc is that the Bal Masque sequence, plus a few other shots, are heavily windowboxed for some reason. This obviously has something to do with the Photoplay restoration, but I'm unsure why it couldn't be fixed for the Blu-ray. Definition during the Bal Masque sequence is quite poor compared to the Park Circus/Image release, though colour is still vastly superior. The Park Circus/Image disc looks very washed out and drab during the Bal Masque, whilst the BFI disc is much more striking and rich (though obviously has severe colour bleeding, and perhaps is over saturated).

You've got one score on the BFI disc, by Carl Davis. The Park Circus/Image had 3 score options across the two 1929 versions. I can't comment which I prefer yet, though Carl Davis is probably the bigger name out of all four, and I've always found his work exemplary.

The 1925 version, here as a bonus feature, looks pretty awful. It has poor definition and very heavy damage. Still, it's in HD and is more than watchable, something which could not really be said for the SD version included on the Park Circus/Image disc. It is in the wider ratio of 1.33:1, entirely in black and white.

It too appears to run at 20fps, in 1080p24, with 5 unique frames, 1 repeat. It's interesting to note that the SD version on the Park Circus/Image disc runs 10 minutes longer than this release. I don't think the BFI disc can have less footage since they're both from the one surviving 16mm print, so presumably the Park Circus/Image SD version runs even slower than 20fps (indeed, if you calculate the percentage difference between the run times, it's pretty much 10%, which would mean the SD one runs at 18fps)

Anyway, it's a great disc that I personally think is much better than the Park Circus/Image one, but perhaps not great enough to replace it entirely

.

Thank you for this review. How are the special features and how do they compare to the other versions? It doesn't include everything the previous versions did it seems but it does have a Lon Chaney documentary which sounds interesting.

[MacEachaidh]

Interesting to hear your thoughts, Eddie, thanks.

So: neither one is a definitive release, eh?

A question about the framerate: do you get the pulldown video artefacts, as you can often spot with NTSC DVDs?

[EddieLarkin]

Well, perhaps neither one is the definite release on paper, but I'll be happily selling off my Park Circus release.

I'm not very sensitive to frame rate issues when the duplication method is used; on this disc it's completely imperceptible to me when the film is playing normally. The only disc I noticed some (very minor) issues was Cohen's Thief of Bagdad. I hear making sure to watch in 24hz mode, rather than 60hz, will help.

As for supplements, I haven't gone through them yet, though they seem far superior to the Park Circus/Image release. A nice booklet, a long classic Brownlow documentary, and some additional newly discovered sound footage.

[rapta]

Ordered Institute Benjamenta last night for just under £6 from Play.com...for some reason a bunch of stuff was quite low-priced including a handful of BFI titles. Interested to see what it's like!

[dumb_dutchman]

Originally Posted by rapta

Ordered Institute Benjamenta last night for just under £6 from Play.com...for some reason a bunch of stuff was quite low-priced including a handful of BFI titles. Interested to see what it's like!

I enjoyed it, but it took me 2 nights to watch it in its entirety. To me...it is/was a completely different viewing experience from the Quay Brothers animated shorts (which I love and revisit often). Both are maddening, in a brain twisting sort of way, but Benjamenta has a much more slow and deliberate pacing throughout.

[RandyK]

Thanks for the review Eddie. Looking into picking up the disc and it looks like I'll pick up this version.

[Clare2904]

Hi there.

Can anyone point me in the direction of where I can find the list of all the BFI releases?

[joie]

Originally Posted by Clare2904

Hi there.

Can anyone point me in the direction of where I can find the list of all the BFI releases?

BFI Video (136 Titles)

[rapta]

Originally Posted by dumb_dutchman

I enjoyed it, but it took me 2 nights to watch it in its entirety. To me...it is/was a completely different viewing experience from the Quay Brothers animated shorts (which I love and revisit often). Both are maddening, in a brain twisting sort of way, but Benjamenta has a much more slow and deliberate pacing throughout.

From the clips I've seen, it seems like I'll have more patience with it than their shorts. Of all the animators I admire, the Quay Brothers are toughest to get on with but that's largely down to a good plot. Will be interested to see how it goes. At under £6 it's a bargain anyway...almost got it for £8 recently so very pleased

[Clare2904]

Originally Posted by joie

BFI Video (136 Titles)

Many thanks

[Hintermann]

Originally Posted by joie

BFI Video (136 Titles)

Nice list. Of these I already have

The Edge Of The World
The Innoicents
Gaslight

Now I am thinking of getting:

Tess
The Phantom OF The Opera
M Hulot's Holiday
The Valley
A Day In The Life

Any comments on those 5 titles?

[dumb_dutchman]

Originally Posted by rapta

From the clips I've seen, it seems like I'll have more patience with it than their shorts. Of all the animators I admire, the Quay Brothers are toughest to get on with but that's largely down to a good plot. Will be interested to see how it goes. At under £6 it's a bargain anyway...almost got it for £8 recently so very pleased

Curious to hear what you ultimately think of it. In some ways Benjamenta reminded me of Tarkovsky's Stalker in that (for me) it was an "active" viewing experienced where I had to remain engaged with the film, rather than just passively viewing it.

It was't an easy watch for me, but then I had to take an extended break from watching The Killing of a Chinese Bookie , as the first half had my head swimming. It didn't help that I was recovering from oral surgery and dosed on pain meds. Thank God I stopped before Timothy Carey came into the film, that would have left me with some permanant scars.

[theprestige85]

What's the chances of BFI releases some Rainer Werner Fassbinder stuff?

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

What's the chances of BFI releases some Rainer Werner Fassbinder stuff?

Arrow released some of his stuff on DVD (and pretty darn good editions they were), so perhaps they can do something. It remains to be seen if the masters they had access to are suitable for making HD encodes.

[Opdef]

After reading Kevin Brownlow's excellent book on Abel Gance's silent epic Napoleon, it seems that the major problem with it having a DVD / Blu-ray release is due to Francis Ford Coppola's nepotism about having his dad's score on there, rather than Carl Davis' vastly superior score, as well the fact that it's on a much longer version. it seems the BFI had a lot to do with Brownlow's original reconstruction of the film, so it Coppola eventually relented (or, dare I say it, fell off his perch), could the BFI then theoretically release it? Or is it never going to happen. After seeing it in London last week it seems criminal that it can't be more widely appreciated.

[Yami]

The main problem is no longer Coppola but how to encode the triptych sequence on home video. Robert Harris and Criterion have hinted that a release will be coming - eventually.

[rapta]

I'm still anticipating the Herzog releases. Aguirre will be day one...might even make a special Herzog shrine in a corner of the room for the releases.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Hintermann

Nice list. Of these I already have

The Edge Of The World
The Innoicents
Gaslight

Now I am thinking of getting:

Tess
The Phantom OF The Opera
M Hulot's Holiday
The Valley
A Day In The Life

Any comments on those 5 titles?

My only comment would be to grab M Hulot's Holiday as soon as you can, the other Tati's are looking a bit pricey from some places so I wouldn't be amazed if that goes OOP too.

[Chad Plainview]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

What's the chances of BFI releases some Rainer Werner Fassbinder stuff?

That would be incredible.