Zulu (1964) - January 22, 2014 - Limited to 3,000 copies

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I guess we will have agree to disagree here. I'd give both transfers 7/10 for different reasons as they have two different sets of problems as I noted on the previous page.

Other than possibly the condition of the print, there's not a single thing that is better on the UK release than on Twilight Time's. Does it look more vibrant, more "vivid", as some other poster said? Of course it does, it has been contrast-boosted to hell. It hurts my eyes to look at it, literally.

Twilight Time's is weak, but Paramount's UK release is a joke. I could reluctantly put up with the former, but the latter is unbearable.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Roy Batty

Other than possibly the condition of the print, there's not a single thing that is better on the UK release than on Twilight Time's. Does it look more vibrant, more "vivid", as some other poster said? Of course it does, it has been contrast-boosted to hell. It hurts my eyes to look at it, literally.

Twilight Time's is weak, but Paramount's UK release is a joke. I could reluctantly put up with the former, but the latter is unbearable.

The TT disc is just too dark. As I said before this is broad daylight in the middle of South Africa, but it does not appear that way. Also, the print damage appears to be at least moderate. Then the colors are just wrong, which is probably due to the transfer being entirely too dark. Then you've got almost no extras and heavy EE on top of the aforementioned problems. The U.K. disc wins hands down. It would be dead even IMHO if the TT disc had more extras and was $10-15.

[Roy Batty]

Originally Posted by bigbadwoppet

The Paramount DOES have DNR, no bones about it but it DOES have grain as well.

No, there's not a single instance of grain there. There's only some electronic noise due to the DNR+sharpening, which is completely different.

Originally Posted by bigbadwoppet

What is completely laughable is the colour issue. Those who find the Paramount boosted, they do so in comparison to the MGM DVD/TT BD, not on knowledge of the theatrical exhibition. Real Technicolor was indeed THAT saturated.

That may well be, but certainly not that contrast-boosted.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The TT disc is just too dark. As I said before this is broad daylight in the middle of South Africa, but it does not appear that way. Also, the print damage appears to be at least moderate. Then the colors are just wrong, which is probably due to the transfer being entirely too dark. Then you've got almost no extras and heavy EE on top of the aforementioned problems. The U.K. disc wins hands down. It would be dead even IMHO if the TT disc had more extras and was $10-15.

Sure, I was referring to the transfer only.

To me, at the end of the day, one looks like film, the other does not. That's paramount in my book.

As you put it, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Roy Batty

No, there's not a single instance of grain there. There's only some electronic noise due to the DNR+sharpening, which is completely different.



That may well be, but certainly not that contrast-boosted.



Sure, I was referring to the transfer only.

To me, at the end of the day, one looks like film, the other does not. That's paramount in my book.

As you put it, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It would appear so.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

The TT disc is just too dark. As I said before this is broad daylight in the middle of South Africa, but it does not appear that way. Also, the print damage appears to be at least moderate. Then the colors are just wrong, which is probably due to the transfer being entirely too dark. Then you've got almost no extras and heavy EE on top of the aforementioned problems. The U.K. disc wins hands down. It would be dead even IMHO if the TT disc had more extras and was $10-15.

You keep saying it's too dark, but I presume you're using the caps as a basis and haven't actually seen the TT for yourself. Viewed on its own merits on a properly calibrated display, it's fine. If looked at cap-by-cap, of course it'll seem dull compared to the highlight-crushing excesses of the UK transfer.

You're also ignoring the fact that the TT shows more image on all sides of the frame and isn't vertically stretched, and the latter aspect gets more and more obvious the more I watch and compare the two.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You keep saying it's too dark, but I presume you're using the caps as a basis and haven't actually seen the TT for yourself. Viewed on its own merits on a properly calibrated display, it's fine. If looked at cap-by-cap, of course it'll seem dull compared to the highlight-crushing excesses of the UK transfer.

You're also ignoring the fact that the TT shows more image on all sides of the frame and isn't vertically stretched, and the latter aspect gets more and more obvious the more I watch and compare the two.

How do you feel about the color timing of the TT disc? Do the uniforms look reddish/orange on your display?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

How do you feel about the color timing of the TT disc? Do the uniforms look reddish/orange on your display?

Depends on the shot. The location footage definitely has a slight orangey tinge to the tunics, whereas they're more of a 'proper' red in the studio scenes. The colour isn't something I'm disputing, mind.

If people are getting a nostalgic thrill from seeing such vivid hues, great, but to my eyes pretty much everything else works against the Par transfer, from the blown-out contrast to the obvious filtering, plus the cropped/stretched image.

Trouble is, I can't pretend that the TT transfer is in any way perfect, what with the EE and the slightly more unstable look that it has, not to mention the colour.

As a wise man once said, with Zulu you've gotta pick your poison.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Depends on the shot. The location footage definitely has a slight orangey tinge to the tunics, whereas they're more of a 'proper' red in the studio scenes. The colour isn't something I'm disputing, mind.

If people are getting a nostalgic thrill from seeing such vivid hues, great, but to my eyes pretty much everything else works against the Par transfer, from the blown-out contrast to the obvious filtering, plus the cropped/stretched image.

Trouble is, I can't pretend that the TT transfer is in any way perfect, what with the EE and the slightly more unstable look that it has, not to mention the colour.

As a wise man once said, with Zulu you've gotta pick your poison.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=238

[Geoff D]

Erm, I was talking about you. No need to quote it again.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You keep saying it's too dark, but I presume you're using the caps as a basis and haven't actually seen the TT for yourself. Viewed on its own merits on a properly calibrated display, it's fine. If looked at cap-by-cap, of course it'll seem dull compared to the highlight-crushing excesses of the UK transfer.

You're also ignoring the fact that the TT shows more image on all sides of the frame and isn't vertically stretched, and the latter aspect gets more and more obvious the more I watch and compare the two.

I've seen this film probably over 50 times in the last 25 years on many different formats. I've also seen British uniforms from the same time period with my own eyes in broad daylight. I can tell with you with nearly total certainty that the TT transfer is simply too dark and the colors are wrong. Yes, I'll grant you the slightly zoomed/stretched nature of the U.K. disc, but I was aware of that years ago when it was released and it is indeed slight.

[Sinbad75]

My, my. Awful lot of angels dancing on the head of this pin!

[blu-bry]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I've seen this film probably over 50 times in the last 25 years on many different formats. I've also seen British uniforms from the same time period with my own eyes in broad daylight. I can tell with you with nearly total certainty that the TT transfer is simply too dark and the colors are wrong. Yes, I'll grant you the slightly zoomed/stretched nature of the U.K. disc, but I was aware of that years ago when it was released and it is indeed slight.

I'm with you. The off-color would stand out for me through the entire film and somewhat spoil it. Obviously both versions are far from perfect, but the UK edition looks like Technicolor. Color trumps slight DNR, EE, contrast, etc. for me. I'm staying with my UK disc for now. Besides, I'd rather spend $30 on a Criterion film than to get a different version of a movie I already own.

[BJQ1972]

The red dyestuffs in common use around that time period had different degrees of colour fastness, and so it would be extremely unlikely that all uniforms would be the same shade of red. There is also the phenomenon of metamerism to consider.

If anybody who has visited a museum is comparing either release to what they saw on display, they should consider that the curators have probably chosen to display a uniform that conforms to the 'recognised' colour of a British Army uniform, under the lighting conditions in which it is being displayed. The same uniform could look very different in daylight.


I would say that is is difficult to say which release has the most 'accurate' colour.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BJQ1972

The red dyestuffs in common use around that time period had different degrees of colour fastness, and so it would be extremely unlikely that all uniforms would be the same shade of red. There is also the phenomenon of metamerism to consider.

If anybody who has visited a museum is comparing either release to what they saw on display, they should consider that the curators have probably chosen to display a uniform that conforms to the 'recognised' colour of a British Army uniform, under the lighting conditions in which it is being displayed. The same uniform could look very different in daylight.


I would say that is is difficult to say which release has the most 'accurate' colour.

Not really. Their uniforms were not red-orange, period. They were red. It was the same with the Coldstream Guards in the Napoleonic Era as well.

[BJQ1972]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Not really. Their uniforms were not red-orange, period. They were red. It was the same with the Coldstream Guards in the Napoleonic Era as well.

They were red where? In Britain? In Africa? I can guarantee that the various dyestuff formulations would not have been the same colour under different light sources.

Have you never bought a shirt, only to get it home and realise it wasn't the colour you thought it was?

What red on this chart is the closet to the colour of British Army Red?

http://www.ralcolor.com