List of International BDs with Better PQ, AQ, and/or More Extras - ARCHIVED

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by lolwut

I'm not too sure.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ss=1#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ss=1#vergleich

Oh, I agree with you, but if you have the U.S. disc already it's not worth paying extra IMHO as the difference is marginal at best.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by wesslan

What I don't understand is why US discs keep having very high audio bitrate when the same movies often have much lower in europe and lossless is lossless? 24bit vs 16bit could be one reason maybe if 24 demands more.

The more you produce something, the cheaper production per item becomes. Therefore it makes more economic sense to cram all of Europe on to one or two masters, as it will (theoretically at least) be cheaper to just make loads of copies of one master than to make less copies og more masters. It's also cheaper and easier to spread discs between EU countries, as there are trade agreements, which allow the studios to bypass any import taxes or restrictions.

And only a small number of people care anyway, and most of those will just import the US release. (Disney UK even released a statement after the "Avengers Assemble scandal" telling people to import if they were that bothered.) And why does it matter to the studio? Most own worldwide rights anyway...

My understanding is that whilst the tracks are lossless and should still sound similar/the same, a higher bitrate means less compression and less compression means higher quality. 24-bit vs. 16-bit is something to do with how dynamic the track is, but whatever the hell that actually means I don't know...

[GenPion]

If every studio would re-scan their films with new masters, release them with MPEG-4 AVC encoding, and provide 24 bit audio we would have more consistently high quality film releases. If studios would also consider allowing for single Blu-ray disc releases to switch extras from being on the same disc as the feature film to being on a separate, standalone bonus features disc, we would also see an improvement with regards to bit-rates for PQ/AQ. And, lastly, if every tinkering studio would stop altogether with DNR, edge enhancement, and other detrimental video 'improvements' then we could really just sit back and have good presentations for a much higher percentage of releases. This would be amazing.

Until that day - which may not arrive - this is why we have a thread like this discussing bit-rates, encodes, different scans, extras, bit-depth, etc.

I personally hope things will improve with the release of 4K Blu-ray discs (even though I would much prefer for things to just improve on the current Blu-ray format as the high quality potential exists, it's just not being fully utilized).

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by GenPion

If every studio would re-scan their films with new masters, release them with MPEG-4 AVC encoding, and provide 24 bit audio we would have more consistently high quality film releases. If studios would also consider allowing for single Blu-ray disc releases to switch extras from being on the same disc as the feature film to being on a separate, standalone bonus features disc, we would also see an improvement with regards to bit-rates for PQ/AQ. And, lastly, if every tinkering studio would stop altogether with DNR, edge enhancement, and other detrimental video 'improvements' then we could really just sit back and have good presentations for a much higher percentage of releases. This would be amazing.

Until that day - which may not arrive - this is why we have a thread like this discussing bit-rates, encodes, different scans, extras, bit-depth, etc.

I personally hope things will improve with the release of 4K Blu-ray discs (even though I would much prefer for things to just improve on the current Blu-ray format as the high quality potential exists, it's just not being fully utilized).

I don't think anybody was disputing the reason for the existence of this thread, as I understood it the intended questions were as follows:

1. Why does Europe get screwed over, in comparison to the US? (Essentially because it's cheaper)
2. What difference does bit rate and bit depth make on a "lossless" audio track? (A lower bitrate results in higher compression, meaning lower quality, although if my understand is correct, they should sound similar)
3. Does an increase in bit depth take up more space?

Hence my reply about "economies of scale" and a brief explanation of "lossless" audio tracks as I understand them.

I certainly wasn't calling the thread pointless, and if it came across like that I apologise. (I keep making a fool of myself on this thread, don't I?) Goofnut HD does an excellent job, and I very much appreciate his work.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

I don't think anybody was disputing the reason for the existence of this thread, as I understood it the intended questions were as follows:

1. Why does Europe get screwed over, in comparison to the US? (Essentially because it's cheaper)
2. What difference does bit rate and bit depth make on a "lossless" audio track? (A lower bitrate results in higher compression, meaning lower quality, although if my understand is correct, they should sound similar)
3. Does an increase in bit depth take up more space?

Hence my reply about "economies of scale" and a brief explanation of "lossless" audio tracks as I understand them.

I certainly wasn't calling the thread pointless, and if it came across like that I apologise. Goofnut HD does an excellent job, and I very much appreciate his work.

I didn't think you considered the thread pointless. I was just trying to add something to this discussion.

As for the bit-rates and space requirements, 24 bit audio does take up a lot more space. Which is probably part of the reason it isn't always included as studios would rather just fit all of the extras onto one disc.

Europe is not always going to have inferior products (some releases wind up getting better PQ/AQ encodes, it really just depends) but in certain cases it does happen and I would say it has more to do with releasing discs that contain more audio options (with a wider language selection) for a wider market. To solve this, studios could make discs for certain territories with less broad scope, but it would require more work so instead discs are made for distributing to a wider range of potential buyers. Comparatively, many US releases only include English audio or, in addition, Spanish and French audio. Or whatever the native language track is. Of course, many subtitles options are provided. This would be a better solution, IMO as most live-action films really need to be seen in their native language. (I am not as picky with anime and animation and can see why it would have a wider range of language options).

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by GenPion

Europe is not always going to have inferior products (some releases wind up getting better PQ/AQ encodes, it really just depends) but in certain cases it does happen and I would say it has more to do with releasing discs that contain more audio options (with a wider language selection) for a wider market. To solve this, studios could make discs for certain territories with less broad scope, but it would require more work so instead discs are made for distributing to a wider range of potential buyers. Comparatively, many US releases only include English audio or, in addition, Spanish and French audio. Or whatever the native language track is. Of course, many subtitles options are provided. This would be a better solution, IMO as most live-action films really need to be seen in their native language. (I am not as picky with anime and animation and can see why it would have a wider range of language options).

Generally it's the major studios that do it, most local or European based studios are perfectly fine (although Studiocanal apparently have some banding issue).

The trouble is, that whilst some countries prefer subtitles, the big ones (with the notable exception of the UK) prefer dubs, and low quality dubs aren't good enough. The French want lossless dubs wherever possible, and they will moan if they don't get them.

And in order to make discs containing a high quality French or German dub viable they need to reduce production costs and the easier way to that is order more and palm those "crappier" disks off on other countries that aren't as fussed about dubs.

I would argue dubbing is also acceptable for comedy, as

[Tech-UK]

The average audio bit-rate is dependant on the bit-depth, but more efficient encoders are released, thus reducing the bitrate but keeping the bit-depth intact after decoding.

The problem with bit-depth and lossless/lossy audio codecs, is that it isn't always accurate to know the exact bit-depth until its being decoded to produce PCM.

BDinfo do say on their site that audio bit-depth isn't always correct. I don't know how they derive the bit-depth exactly, because the codec isn't decoded (BDinfo scan would need to have DTS and DD decoders), but I believe bit-rate is used to conclude the bit-depth.

Another aspect is that the lossless track maybe 19/20-bit and once decoded produces 24-bit (a mechanism to reduce data rate thus reduce total size of the track).

As mentioned a few UK/EU releases only feature 16-bit because of multiple audio tracks, all of which take up more disc space, and push the A/V bitrate closer to the maximum allowable on BD.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

... I certainly wasn't calling the thread pointless, and if it came across like that I apologise. (I keep making a fool of myself on this thread, don't I?) Goofnut HD does an excellent job, and I very much appreciate his work.

Uh, by the way, that's HD Goofnut ...

[thebard]

Originally Posted by Jompa

Donnie Darko

US - AVC Theatrical: 18.99 Mbps, DTS-HD MA 5.1 2147 24-bit, BD50 / Director's Cut: AVC 18.86 Mbps, DTS-HD MA 5.1 4153 24-bit, BD50
AU - AVC Theatrical: 30.99 Mbps, DTS-HD MA 5.1 2108 16-bit, BD50 / Director's Cut: AVC 31.00 Mbps, DTS-HD MA 5.1 2211 16-bit, BD50

Does anyone have screencap comparisons of this?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Uh, by the way, that's HD Goofnut ...

...and apologize. Folks sure misspell that one quite a bit.

[jordanwalkert]

Originally Posted by thebard

Does anyone have screencap comparisons of this?

I don't think it really matters much. The master of Donnie Darko is so terrible and is in DESPERATE need of a re-master. It's one of few blu rays I own that after all this time... Still looks like an upgraded DVD. No amount of encoding is going to fix it.

[thebard]

Originally Posted by jordanwalkert

I don't think it really matters much. The master of Donnie Darko is so terrible and is in DESPERATE need of a re-master. It's one of few blu rays I own that after all this time... Still looks like an upgraded DVD. No amount of encoding is going to fix it.

I was afraid of that...

[jordanwalkert]

Originally Posted by thebard

I was afraid of that...

I have the UK version which has the "upgraded" video but only for the director's cut. It's ever so slight though that it's hardly worth it. I imagine it would be the same for the AU one on the theatrical cut, but then you lose the 24 bit audio (not sure if that matters to you). This actually has really great lossless sound, especially the directors cut. Such a shame we can't get good video to go with it, which has always surprised me since it has such an enormous cult following. I really thought we would get some type of HD remaster for the 10 anniversary.. But no dice

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

...and apologize. Folks sure misspell that one quite a bit.

Well, they still remember you as SD Goofnut.

[casspir]

Is this UK release 23.976 or 24.00 fps?:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/They-Live-Blu-ray/9140/
I guess, it is the former, I just would like to be sure. I know the Italian is 24 fps, US is 23.976, what about the UK one?

If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks!

[knifethrower]

Originally Posted by casspir

Is this UK release 23.976 or 24.00 fps?:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/They-Live-Blu-ray/9140/
I guess, it is the former, I just would like to be sure. I know the Italian is 24 fps, US is 23.976, what about the UK one?

If anyone knows, please let me know. Thanks!

The UK disc was an upscale much like the StudioCanal Escape from New York. I do not think that the UK release ever made it to retail but I know that review screeners did get sent out (to awful reviews).

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

...and apologize. Folks sure misspell that one quite a bit.

Massively off topic, but are you sure they're misspelling it?

In British English you may use either an "s" or a "z" for "-ize" words (with an "s" generally being preferred), whereas in American English you would always use a "z".

I'm British, which is why I originally used "apologise"...

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Massively off topic, but are you sure they're misspelling it?

In British English you may use either an "s" or a "z" for "-ize" words (with an "s" generally being preferred), whereas in American English you would always use a "z".

I'm British, which is why I originally used "apologise"...

+1. Apologize just doesnt seem right to me either!

[casspir]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Massively off topic, but are you sure they're misspelling it?

In British English you may use either an "s" or a "z" for "-ize" words (with an "s" generally being preferred), whereas in American English you would always use a "z".

I'm British, which is why I originally used "apologise"...

I think, Goofnut was just joking, was teasing you a bit more. (or at least that's how I interpret it...)

[casspir]

Originally Posted by knifethrower

The UK disc was an upscale much like the StudioCanal Escape from New York. I do not think that the UK release ever made it to retail but I know that review screeners did get sent out (to awful reviews).

Knife, thank you!