British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[Norbie]

Just so that I clearly understand, the Werner Herzog Collection will have all the extras that will be on the Steelbook editions on Nosferatu and Aquirre... Yes?

[rapta]

Originally Posted by Norbie

Just so that I clearly understand, the Werner Herzog Collection will have all the extras that will be on the Steelbook editions on Nosferatu and Aquirre... Yes?

In short, yes. Makes sense for BFI to do it that way. I'm going for the set...might get Aguirre separately but not much point if they're the same disc (which seems pretty certain right now).

[MacEachaidh]

Hmmm, dilemma.

I like most of Herzog's films that I have seen, though that's a minority of his output. (And, confession, I only really liked the first two-thirds or so of Aguirre, and then it totally lost me. Maybe I simply need to watch it again, but I haven't sought it out.) I know I want Fitzcarraldo and Nosferatu; most of the rest of the boxed set would be a blind-buy.

So: do I buy the box, and take a chance (given that one of the three I've seen so far didn't really do it for me), or just buy the ones I already know and miss out on the possibility of loving some of the others?

Can anyone else relate to my thoughts?

[tenia]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Hmmm, dilemma.

I like most of Herzog's films that I have seen, though that's a minority of his output. (And, confession, I only really liked the first two-thirds or so of Aguirre, and then it totally lost me. Maybe I simply need to watch it again, but I haven't sought it out.) I know I want Fitzcarraldo and Nosferatu; most of the rest of the boxed set would be a blind-buy.

So: do I buy the box, and take a chance (given that one of the three I've seen so far didn't really do it for me), or just buy the ones I already know and miss out on the possibility of loving some of the others?

Can anyone else relate to my thoughts?

For not even £50, I prefered to pre-orde the full boxset. I feel that even if there are some movies I don't like, it should be much more interesting price-wise.

[DukeOfPrunes]

I agree with tenia. Really, £50 was quite unexpected, such a low price for this great collection. I don't think you can go wrong with a filmmaker like Herzog. His short films have a lesser impact but there are at least six featured classics which are mandatory in any movie buff collection (Land of Silence and Darkness, Aguirre: The Wrath of God, The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, Stroszek, Nosferatu the Vampyre and Fitzcarraldo). A friend of mine told me how much he loved Heart of Glass, too.

[crazyman]

I'd prefer to have all the shorts on a bonus disc and more film specific extras on the movies' discs.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Hmmm, dilemma.

I like most of Herzog's films that I have seen, though that's a minority of his output. (And, confession, I only really liked the first two-thirds or so of Aguirre, and then it totally lost me. Maybe I simply need to watch it again, but I haven't sought it out.) I know I want Fitzcarraldo and Nosferatu; most of the rest of the boxed set would be a blind-buy.

So: do I buy the box, and take a chance (given that one of the three I've seen so far didn't really do it for me), or just buy the ones I already know and miss out on the possibility of loving some of the others?

Can anyone else relate to my thoughts?

I had a similar reaction to Aguirre (and a worse one to Woyzeck) but Enigma of Kasper Hauser and Heart of Glass are both very good films. Add those two to Noseferatu and Fitzcarraldo (and lets face it, Aguirre will look stunning in HD) and you only really need 1 more good movie to justify a 50GBP asking price.

[Norbie]

Originally Posted by nitin

I had a similar reaction to Aguirre (and a worse one to Woyzeck) but Enigma of Kasper Hauser and Heart of Glass are both very good films. Add those two to Noseferatu and Fitzcarraldo (and lets face it, Aguirre will look stunning in HD) and you only really need 1 more good movie to justify a 50GBP asking price.

If Fitzcarraldo wasn't included in the box set then I would have gone for the individual releases.

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by nitin

I had a similar reaction to Aguirre (and a worse one to Woyzeck) but Enigma of Kasper Hauser and Heart of Glass are both very good films. Add those two to Noseferatu and Fitzcarraldo (and lets face it, Aguirre will look stunning in HD) and you only really need 1 more good movie to justify a 50GBP asking price.

Thanks nitin, and I don't disagree (though I do need a little more from Aguirre than its merely scrubbing up well in HD! ). I wasn't suggesting the price of this set was a problem, except that if there are only really two films in the box that I ever spend time watching, an outlay of £50 and a fair chunk of ever-diminishing shelf space don't sound like so much of a bargain.

When I first started buying Blu-rays, I kept (in my initial enthusiasm) buying titles that I "should" have, or that were made by people whose other works I admire, or because they looked impressive in HD, and a lot of them have only ever been spun up once — some of them not even for the whole film. Now I'm realising just how many discs I have that I'll probably never watch again, I'm becoming less interested in buying titles just in case I like them.

Anyway. I guess I should seek out some more Herzog films and see how they sit with me before making a decision. I really enjoy his documentaries, but they're probably a whole different beast.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Thanks nitin, and I don't disagree (though I do need a little more from Aguirre than its merely scrubbing up well in HD! ). I wasn't suggesting the price of this set was a problem, except that if there are only really two films in the box that I ever spend time watching, an outlay of £50 and a fair chunk of ever-diminishing shelf space don't sound like so much of a bargain.

When I first started buying Blu-rays, I kept (in my initial enthusiasm) buying titles that I "should" have, or that were made by people whose other works I admire, or because they looked impressive in HD, and a lot of them have only ever been spun up once — some of them not even for the whole film. Now I'm realising just how many discs I have that I'll probably never watch again, I'm becoming less interested in buying titles just in case I like them.

Anyway. I guess I should seek out some more Herzog films and see how they sit with me before making a decision. I really enjoy his documentaries, but they're probably a whole different beast.

His documentaries are indeed more 'perfected' in their executions, but indeed they are apples and oranges. If I were you, I'd either borrow some off a friend, buy a couple of the cheap ones on DVD (I found some in Fopp a couple of times, £3 each...Fitzcarraldo and Nosferatu...his later films like Rescue Dawn and Bad Lieutenant are easy/cheap to get hold of) or maybe one of the Anchor Bay DVD sets. I've seen enough to know I will love this set - it will be 'up there' with Apocalypse Now and my MoC collection as my most treasured blu-rays!

[Filmbloke]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

the bfi eyes without a face cover looks so amazing

would make a awesome poster !

Day one for me anyway as the film is a belter, but this would have made an awesome steelbook!

[Bruce Morrison]

Originally Posted by rapta

His documentaries are indeed more 'perfected' in their executions, but indeed they are apples and oranges. If I were you, I'd either borrow some off a friend, buy a couple of the cheap ones on DVD (I found some in Fopp a couple of times, £3 each...Fitzcarraldo and Nosferatu...his later films like Rescue Dawn and Bad Lieutenant are easy/cheap to get hold of) or maybe one of the Anchor Bay DVD sets. I've seen enough to know I will love this set - it will be 'up there' with Apocalypse Now and my MoC collection as my most treasured blu-rays!

Absolutely! I was especially delighted to see that the set will include 'Burden Of Dreams', the documentary about the shooting of Fitzcarraldo. This is just as fascinating as the film itself.

One early film that I noticed will not be included is 'Even Dwarfs Started Small' - I'm not sure why they couldn't include it, but this should still be an awesome set.

[Olmo]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

The BBFC cut over two minutes out of it last time (animal cruelty), which might have been a factor in deciding not to bother.

This seemed to happen often in 70's European cinema, there are two scenes in Bertolucci's 1900 that I have to skip. The pig being slaughtered and the frogs being implaled on the spike atop Olmo's hat.

Coppola's filming of the ritual slaughter of cattle, cut with Kurtz's death is particularly hard to watch also. Won't even go near Cannibal Holocaust.

[Opdef]

Originally Posted by Olmo

Won't even go near Cannibal Holocaust.

That's wise - it's easy to see something, but very difficult to un-see something. On the Shameless Blu-ray of Cannibal Holocaust it boasts of the "Director's Re-Edit", apparently removing the more shocking footage of animal slaughter. Even this version was appalling to me, and I'd never been particularly bothered by on-screen slaughter before. Consequently, I really struggle to watch anything with a hint of animal cruelty/slaughter etc. now. It's with trepidation that I cautiously welcome the upcoming MoC release of Wake in Fright, which I would never had felt had I not seen Cannibal Holocaust.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by Opdef

That's wise - it's easy to see something, but very difficult to un-see something. On the Shameless Blu-ray of Cannibal Holocaust it boasts of the "Director's Re-Edit", apparently removing the more shocking footage of animal slaughter. Even this version was appalling to me, and I'd never been particularly bothered by on-screen slaughter before. Consequently, I really struggle to watch anything with a hint of animal cruelty/slaughter etc. now. It's with trepidation that I cautiously welcome the upcoming MoC release of Wake in Fright, which I would never had felt had I not seen Cannibal Holocaust.

Yeah, I'm worried about WAKE IN FRIGHT as well. I really want to see it but I think the kangaroo slaughter is going to burn hideous images into my brain. Cowardly and hypocritical, I know - I'm a total carnivore - but I can't help it.

I'm worried about AU HASARD BALTHASAR too and I'm presuming all the cruelty in that is simulated.

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Yeah, I'm worried about WAKE IN FRIGHT as well. I really want to see it but I think the kangaroo slaughter is going to burn hideous images into my brain. Cowardly and hypocritical, I know - I'm a total carnivore - but I can't help it.

I'm worried about AU HASARD BALTHASAR too and I'm presuming all the cruelty in that is simulated.

I've never seen Wake In Fright. Is it worse than, say, Walkabout?

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by rock, stone

I've never seen Wake In Fright. Is it worse than, say, Walkabout?

Worse in what sense? I've seen WALKABOUT but I don't remember any animal cruelty. Could be wrong, though.

Anyway, I can't comment. As I said, I've not seen WAKE IN FRIGHT.

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

Worse in what sense? I've seen WALKABOUT but I don't remember any animal cruelty. Could be wrong, though.

Anyway, I can't comment. As I said, I've not seen WAKE IN FRIGHT.

Sorry, although I quoted you, I meant it as more of a question for the "room".

Walkabout has a kangaroo bludgeoning that is pretty much my personal limit. I've been surprised by some unexpected animal deaths in the past, Profound Desire of the Gods has some lizard smooshes and a pig getting tossed to a shark, for example. So I figure it is better to know what to expect.

At least Milo & Otis had most of that sort of thing happening off camera.

Edited to add:

The difference for me is movie magic depicted animal death vs just killing an animal for the sake of getting a shot. Which I expect is not uncommon.

[duggie walker]

Originally Posted by rock, stone

Sorry, although I quoted you, I meant it as more of a question for the "room".

Walkabout has a kangaroo bludgeoning that is pretty much my personal limit. I've been surprised by some unexpected animal deaths in the past, Profound Desire of the Gods has some lizard smooshes and a pig getting tossed to a shark, for example. So I figure it is better to know what to expect.

At least Milo & Otis had most of that sort of thing happening off camera.

Edited to add:

The difference for me is movie magic depicted animal death vs just killing an animal for the sake of getting a shot. Which I expect is not uncommon.

Wow - I don't remember that from WALKABOUT. Maybe I'm not as sensitive as I thought!

I'm with you on the last point. The counter-argument is often "well you don't mind seeing humans killed". Uh - yes, I do. I wouldn't watch any film of a human being killed unless it was in a very particular context. I'm happy to watch simulated killing, even with animals; the difference is, when a film-maker kills a human, they're usually put on trial. When they kill an animal, nobody gives a damn.

That said, I do see the difference between filming something that's happening in real life (the case with WAKE IN FRIGHT, I believe) and killing th eanimal specifically for the film, which I find immoral.

[Lutz]

I have the Kino releases but I hope with the Derek Jarman retrospective this year that at some point the BFI do a big blu ray boxset with more of his films.

(Maybe the long standing format joke of BLUE getting an upgrade will finally be realised? )