Fantastic Four (2015)

[mrrant_33]

Hey lil ones, you hear the latest? Fox is scared poopie-less and is actually considering scrapping the whole fantastic 4 reboot idea.

Baby Laugh Montage - YouTube

[Bolty]

Trank was announced in July '12 and almost immediately the "Jordan is Torch" talk came up.
They had 27 months to start shooting or surrender rights.

They announce plans to shoot in Vancouver and then cancel them and announce plans to shoot in Louisiana---I guess the two are similar in scenic vistas and people.

As of February '14 (19 months later) they STILL had not officially announced any cast.

Along the way they announced that Mark Millar would be cordinating a ''shared universe' with the Fox X-Men movies and several months later he gave an interview stating he 'knew nothing' of any connections between the 2 franchises.

Then the cast is signed and the news is leaked NOT RELEASED by Fox and to my knowledge the cast has still never been officially announced. (Please correct me if I'm wrong and direct us to the official Fox announcement--I'll happily eat crow.)

Then the cast is basically let loose to give interviews where instead of proclaiming their joy and excitement, they give odd statements about 'fan reaction on the internet' ?? Who cares, I admit I am just an anonymous person jabbering on one of my hobbies/interests. Don't give me strength out of proportion to my real power.

Why let them bring up these things in interviews or have them answer loaded questions with dumb/snarky responses? Simple statements of confidence and professional pride would do much better.

Even if you like these actors, like Trank, like Kinberg, like the Ultimates FF---can you say they have done any of this right?

we're a decade and a half into the rejuvenated era of the big budget comic book based movie and this is the most inept launch attempt out of the 30+ CBMs yet made or in the pipeline.

They've alienated a lot more people than old middle age farts like me who want "their version" of the FF done right ONCE before changing, races, genders, ages and team dynamics---which eventually happens to all literary franchises.

[duggie walker]

But I'll tell you something else - whatever's true here, another thing Fox simply couldn't do is back off the casting of Jordan. Somebody black now HAS to play that role (or one of the FF) or they'll look like cowardly racists.

I say this with no attitude. I'm fine with Jordan in the part, it's the other ones that bother me. But I wonder if Trank might have deliberately pushed them by leaking Jordan's casting early to put them in precisely that bind? They wouldn't be happy about that.

Pure speculation, of course, but an interesting scenario, even if fictional.

[Walts Ghost]

There's just a whole lot of mess here. The production has been shut down and restarted, no one is officially announced outside of Trank and the writers, and the movie is supposed to start shooting next month. It's not looking good, i have to say...I think there's more to this rumor than meets the eye. Bleeding Cool is standing by their story too.

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

But I'll tell you something else - whatever's true here, another thing Fox simply couldn't do is back off the casting of Jordan. Somebody black now HAS to play that role (or one of the FF) or they'll look like cowardly racists.

I say this with no attitude. I'm fine with Jordan in the part, it's the other ones that bother me. But I wonder if Trank might have deliberately pushed them by leaking Jordan's casting early to put them in precisely that bind? They wouldn't be happy about that.

Pure speculation, of course, but an interesting scenario, even if fictional.

I disagree strongly---if it reverts Marvel will do a proper casting call, screen tests and the likelihood of it going to a black actor will be fairly small based on a simple numbers game.

If it stays at Fox---the new director will also do regular screen tests and same result.

lastly if either studio feels pressure to cast a black--they'd like cast Reed or Ben as black and put to rest any of the "explain why brother and sister are different races."

Some people say that people need no explanation and those people are wrong--studios go out of their way in spelling out things for audiences and often repeat key info---they're not going to have a bi-racial family and say nothing.

And if they think they can solve it by having one say to the other "What's up step-brother?"---they're gonna have people rolling their eyes thinking, "we get it, it's 2015 and you need to be racially balanced and there's how you did it."

For god's sake if you need a black main cast member just do Reed or Ben and leave Johnny and Sue be or have some real guts and make them both black.

[DisneyBlu]

Long post.

Fox sees all these comic book movies making huge amounts of money and breaking box office records and they want a piece of the pie, but what they don't seem to realize is that you have the make the movies good. You can't just take a comic book property, put out a movie and go, "it's based on a comic book, where's my billion?"

I haven't seen this much vitriol against a comic book movie before we even got a trailer since... I don't even remember. Even Green Lantern had people excited for it before a trailer came out. And even then, it wasn't until the movie came out where people started spewing venom (and rightfully so).

Us comic book fans alone don't make these movies huge successes, no. But when you see nearly nothing but hate for a movie with no footage, the studio - Fox - has to sit up, reassess the situation, and say, "We have to make a change." No, that doesn't mean that every studio should bow to pressure put on by fans and make a change any time the fans get angry. Were that the case, Ledger would have been pulled out of TDK and we would have missed out on, IMO, the greatest performance in a comic book movie, ever. Your ideal sweet spot is that place where you can please both the general audience and long time fans. Marvel Studios does that pretty well, most would agree.

However, with this Fantastic Four, I see little to no positivity, no matter which site I'm on. And that's not the internet being the internet, because whether it's Avengers: Age of Ultron or Batman/Superman or Ant-Man, there are people who are on board and looking forward to these productions. But Fantastic Four is the only one that is constantly being eviscerated.

A few things can happen.

Fox can go forward with the movie, by some miracle it actually ends up being good, they make a pretty good profit on it. I don't see it getting close to a billion -- it would probably do a bit under Man of Steel numbers. If Superman can't break $700 mil, I doubt the FF could. This point is moot because we really can't predict box office at this point, but the second option:

Fox goes forward, the movie is bad, they lose money. They lose more money than they would have had they let the rights revert or made some deal with Marvel. After three "meh" box office returns for three Fantastic Four movies, Fox finally lets the rights revert. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the situation is: Fox must officially be in production for a FF movie within seven years. If a movie isn't made in that seven years, the rights revert to their rightful owner, Marvel. I could see Fox being petty and saying, "We're going to try again," with no intention of making another FF movie, and only letting Marvel have the rights back seven years later. (You know there's some Fox executive(s) out there worried what would happen if they let Marvel have the rights back and then Marvel turns it into yet another hit movie in a long list of hit movies).

I think Fox's best move - for all of us - would be to give Marvel the rights back with some kind of fee. I've seen people say, "Marvel should give Fox a billion dollars for the Fantastic Four." That's just not going to happen. Marvel cost them $4 bil, and Star Wars cost them $4 bil. They would not dish out one billion for the Fantastic Four alone. That's a gross overpricing, and Marvel Studios wouldn't consider them worth a billion. If they were desperate, sure, but Marvel Studios doesn't need the FF, Spidey, or the X-Men. They have Iron Man, Cap, Thor, The Avengers franchises... they, funnily enough, have managed to be doing better than anyone with characters who were largely at one time "B-list."

Before the Daredevil rights reverted, Marvel was up for playing ball with Fox -- they offered to let them keep Daredevil if Fox handed over Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox said no, Daredevil went to Disney. Disney doesn't need the FF. They want some of the FF characters, but it's obvious they really don't care if they have them or not. Would they like them? Sure. Marvel could take the FF and make another critical and commercial success, I have no doubt about that. Disney would love to have yet another successful franchise. But they're not going to pay out that much for them.

Marvel Studios should give Fox $100 million and a cut of the box office, say 7% (or $___ amount to a certain point). Marvel would own the FF rights outright, all merchandising -- Fox no longer has any claim to the FF, but they get a cut of the money. They get paid for doing absolutely nothing.

If you were a Fox exec, what do you do? Spend $150 - $250 million (or so) on a property that never exactly did gangbusters for you the first two times, in the hopes that your comic book movie will make the kind of money other comic book movies are making these days? Or do you not take that risk, play it safe, and take the payoff + profits for doing nothing? Hell. Focus on X-Men, do X-Men spin offs. Put out two X-Men movies a year. Do smaller budgeted films focusing on characters we haven't seen on screen yet or have seen very little. Expand your "X-Men Universe" without incorporating the FF. Just let the FF go.

I can't blame them for holding on so tightly to one of their two comic book properties in a world where comic book movies now dominate the box office, but if they actually make this movie and it's bad, I hope it bites them in the a$$. In a post Iron Man, post Dark Knight world, we should not be getting crappy comic book movies anymore.

[Bolty]

^^Long post--good post.

I've been saying for a while that Fox should what Universal did with Hulk----let marvel make the movie---integrate it into their shared universe and allow Fox to distribute the movie and any sequels in the theaters and share the home video releases---Fox releases it first and Marvel later releases it as part of a Phase #_ box set.

Marvel gets their property back, Fox makes money for doing not much but has a lot less to lose if they blow it again.

Maybe as you say Fox just has this nihilistic approach--"We succeed or the property is ruined forever!"

Like a spouse who destroys the marital dwelling before giving it up.

I like the part about it being past the time for really sh**ty CBMs! It's true--since marvel jumped in it should be clear what the framework is. I can see a studio releasing a 7 star movie, but any more of the 3 or 4 out of 10 movies are signs of serious neglect and ineptitude. I hope Fox has some exec with a spine who says, "Wait a second...."

[thunderforce]

Marvel should get the rights back . Fox has had years to cash in on the FF but didn't do jack . Fox should just give the rights back because if they make it they will only loose money since they have no clue what they are doing . Marvel should take them to court for trying to destroy the FF brand that Marvel has been building up for decades .

[Brodo Faggins]

Originally Posted by thunderforce

Marvel should get the rights back . Fox has had years to cash in on the FF but didn't do jack . Fox should just give the rights back because if they make it they will only loose money since they have no clue what they are doing . Marvel should take them to court for trying to destroy the FF brand that Marvel has been building up for decades .

Brilliant. You should email both companies with your advice. Expect them to fight for your services.

[thegoat]

100% agree with Disneyblu and Bolty. Fox needs to cut a deal with Marvel. I think a distribution deal would be ideal for both. Fox has done a great job with X-men (though most credit should be given to Singer and the casting), but they just don't have a clue what makes a superhero movie successful (ironic, since X-men is a major reason for the cinematic superhero era). The notion of an xmen and FF cross over just shows that they saw Avengers numbers but failed to understand its appeal. The X-men universe alone is large enough to work with, especially with two separate timelines, that they should stick with that. It's established with relateable characters and themes that translate well to film.

FF is a little more out there, and it requires some expertise. If Marvel can make Thor a fly-off-the-shelves title (and we'll see, but Guardians will likely fare well), the FF should be almost effortless.

[Darkstream]

Fox allowing Marvel to produce the FF movie while they retained distribution rights (much like the Universal/Marvel deal with The Incredible Hulk), is a great idea --- But it might be viewed as a sign of weakness on Fox's part. That they needed Marvel is something the Fox people may not want to admit. But if you ask any fan, that's how it looks now anyway. If the project is in such a bad position and mired with so many issues, I think in the long run, rather than making a bad film, destroying the property and making your own studio look bad, it would be in everyone's best interest to collaborate on the film with the House that created the property and could better help make a more successful film franchise. It may look like a desperate act on Fox's part, but eventually, it will make them look smart and appreciated, instead of stubborn and villainous.

I always gave Fox a lot respect for the films they produced or that they were involved with in some capacity, because they did a lot of great sci-fi concepts I love --- franchises like Planet of the Apes, Fantastic Voyage, The Fly, Alien, Predator, Star Wars, X-Files, X-Men, etc. -- Sure, there were a lot of misfires that resulted in bad films, but there were some great ones too, and I just wish they had a better handle on how to produce these properties with the right people behind them and with consistent high quality. It would be a real shame for Marvel's First Family to go down in history as one of the worst comic book concepts, because the people behind the films could never execute the proper vehicle to gain any real appreciation from the general movie-going masses.

[thunderforce]

Originally Posted by thegoat

100% agree with Disneyblu and Bolty. Fox needs to cut a deal with Marvel. I think a distribution deal would be ideal for both. Fox has done a great job with X-men (though most credit should be given to Singer and the casting), but they just don't have a clue what makes a superhero movie successful (ironic, since X-men is a major reason for the cinematic superhero era). The notion of an xmen and FF cross over just shows that they saw Avengers numbers but failed to understand its appeal. The X-men universe alone is large enough to work with, especially with two separate timelines, that they should stick with that. It's established with relateable characters and themes that translate well to film.

FF is a little more out there, and it requires some expertise. If Marvel can make Thor a fly-off-the-shelves title (and we'll see, but Guardians will likely fare well), the FF should be almost effortless.

Thor is awesome and people can laugh at me but I think that Guardians of the Galaxy has the potential to be as big as the Avengers . I see it as a little funnier version of Star Wars but with super heroes and awesome music of the 80's , are you kidding me . The FF should be a major force at the box office but because of Fox they sit and do nothing , what a waste .

[Bolty]

^^Very true, Darkstream.

I think if they do strike a deal--it's actually win-win for FOX.

1. If they let marvel produce the film and it's a hit-they get some money and the exec(s) who struck the deal get lots kudos for a good decision.

2. If the Marvel produced movie FAILS---then people will say, "Fox was smart, if Marvel couldn't produce a successful movie of their own property with their experience, then Fox would have had a much lesser chance."

[thunderforce]

Originally Posted by Bolty

^^Very true, Darkstream.

I think if they do strike a deal--it's actually win-win for FOX.

1. If they let marvel produce the film and it's a hit-they get some money and the exec(s) who struck the deal get lots kudos for a good decision.

2. If the Marvel produced movie FAILS---then people will say, "Fox was smart, if Marvel couldn't produce a successful movie of their own property with their experience, then Fox would have had a much lesser chance."

I doubt that is going to happen but I wish it would . If Marvel made a FF movie in the MCU it would be a huge deal and make massive amounts of money just because it would be happening in the MCU . I think Fox knows this and would not want that to happen .

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by thunderforce

I doubt that is going to happen but I wish it would . If Marvel made a FF movie in the MCU it would be a huge deal and make massive amounts of money just because it would be happening in the MCU . I think Fox knows this and would not want that to happen .

Sometimes it's better to have a piece of the pie, than no pie at all.

[thunderforce]

I bet Fox would rather just put out a crap movie quickly just to keep the rights . If they do I hope Marvel can take them to court to get the rights back because that would not be in the spirit of what Marvel agreed to .

[StevenHarvey1990]

I think every man and their dog knows full well that Fox just can't do a worthy Fantastic Four movie... so they are just being stubborn.

It's inevitable that Fantastic Four will revert to Marvel eventually, Fox just want to delay it as long as possible.

If they wanted to be REALLY petty, they could just cast unknowns, do a low-budget $5-10m version and hope the name 'Fantastic Four' brings them their $10m back... and that's 7 more years of time Marvel can't get their hands on the franchise.

Either way something's got to give. Given the response to the current cast etc the execs at Fox HAVE to be smart enough to know that if they keep on keeping on with Trank & Co they'll have a huge bomb on their hands.

Personally think the story is true, as they can't be THAT stupid.

[The Nice Guy]

Originally Posted by thunderforce

I bet Fox would rather just put out a crap movie quickly just to keep the rights . If they do I hope Marvel can take them to court to get the rights back because that would not be in the spirit of what Marvel agreed to .

Fantastic Four - 1994 Roger Corman Original Movie Trailer! - YouTube

[thunderforce]

Originally Posted by The Nice Guy

Fantastic Four - 1994 Roger Corman Original Movie Trailer! - YouTube

Marvel should have took them straight to court after that mess . They could probably win too . They sold the movie rights so movies would be made and they get a percentage . That movie was made just to be made and that is so wrong .

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

[Show spoiler]Fox allowing Marvel to produce the FF movie while they retained distribution rights (much like the Universal/Marvel deal with The Incredible Hulk), is a great idea --- But it might be viewed as a sign of weakness on Fox's part. That they needed Marvel is something the Fox people may not want to admit. But if you ask any fan, that's how it looks now anyway. If the project is in such a bad position and mired with so many issues, I think in the long run, rather than making a bad film, destroying the property and making your own studio look bad, it would be in everyone's best interest to collaborate on the film with the House that created the property and could better help make a more successful film franchise. It may look like a desperate act on Fox's part, but eventually, it will make them look smart and appreciated, instead of stubborn and villainous.

I always gave Fox a lot respect for the films they produced or that they were involved with in some capacity, because they did a lot of great sci-fi concepts I love --- franchises like Planet of the Apes, Fantastic Voyage, The Fly, Alien, Predator, Star Wars, X-Files, X-Men, etc. -- Sure, there were a lot of misfires that resulted in bad films, but there were some great ones too, and I just wish they had a better handle on how to produce these properties with the right people behind them and with consistent high quality. It would be a real shame for Marvel's First Family to go down in history as one of the worst comic book concepts, because the people behind the films could never execute the proper vehicle to gain any real appreciation from the general movie-going masses.

Statement bolded for truth. Fox produces a lot of quality cinema. They tend to run into trouble when they get over-involved in the creative process.

I think studio politics would take a backseat to potential profit when it comes down to it. If they can quickly bring in a team who actually appreciates and is inspired by the source material, rather somebody to just get the job done, then they should still be okay. Otherwise, I completely agree that they would be smart to work with Marvel.