Prometheus (2012)

[Early Memphis]

Hey, let's hear it for Coors Light!!!

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Hey, let's hear it for Coors Light!!!

Swill! Redneck swill!
To the end of the line with yah!

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I know this. So what? It just further proves that they used all the tricks at their disposal to make the Space Jockey look huge. It was intentional that it appeared as big as it did in the film.

I was talking to Early Memphis. He was pointing out the techniques used to make the Jockey appear larger in Alien, and neglected to mention that there were kids in the suits. I was just chiming in with that bit of info. No need to get all snippy about it. Especially since I wasn't talking to you.

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

That link was good for a few laughs. Basically it's "Alien was PERFECT, Prometheus was CRAP!" by repeating the same trash over and over. Alien SFX people had to work for their money, Prometheus they just flipped the computer on and it looks so computered? OK then.

Which is pretty funny when you consider that a ton of the FX in Prometheus are actually practical FX...especially when you compare to other recent sci-fi films, which rely much more heavily on CGI.

Originally Posted by Krelldog1977

EXACTLY-you've stole the words out of my mouth! The anti-Cameron fans can barely read, let alone write a script.

I guess IQ's are starting to drop rapidly.....as Ripley's prophecy proclaims.

Yes, anyone who doesn't share your opinion of James Cameron's writing talents (or lack thereof) is clearly illiterate. That's a fair assessment.

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

I think you've pretty much explained the reason why.

The Nostromo is essentially a mobile factory in space, it's not really going to be pristine looking or be in the best of conditions.

It makes more sense that a science vessel would look much better and be in better condition.

For all we know the Nostromo could be older than the Prometheus.

Trying to compare the technological prowess of the Nostromo vs. the Prometheus is like trying to compare the cab of a trucker's semi to the back of a luxury limousine, or an oil refinery to a medical laboratory. Just because one is cleaner and has more advanced equipment and/or comfortable quarters, does not necessarily mean that it is newer.

[oakhill]

this movie had some great bass in it

[Early Memphis]

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Swill! Redneck swill!
To the end of the line with yah!

Guinness is where it's at haha!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

I was talking to Early Memphis. He was pointing out the techniques used to make the Jockey appear larger in Alien, and neglected to mention that there were kids in the suits. I was just chiming in with that bit of info. No need to get all snippy about it. Especially since I wasn't talking to you.

I wasn't getting snippy. I was asking why that mattered. I wasn't aware you were just responding to another person's mention of filming techniques. I didn't know who you were talking to since you didn't address anybody specific. My apologies.

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I wasn't getting snippy. I was asking why that mattered. I wasn't aware you were just responding to another person's mention of filming techniques. I didn't know who you were talking to since you didn't address anybody specific. My apologies.

Lets end this discussion- we have all voiced our opinions. Time to move along now.

" this bickering is pointless "

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Is there any reason why you sound so angry? It's just a discussion. Everything people post in here is opinion for the most part. That should be obvious. We can do without the attitudes in here.

And no, the moon isn't useless. That's not an opinion.

I'm not angry. I'm laughing. The blog was pathetic and I find most sharing that opinion, especially when they run around stating it as fact, to be ridiculous. I called out the blogger and you rushed to defend. Don't get testy with me for calling you out.

No, the moon isn't useless. Not entirely. The point was that at this stage of human existence man hasn't ventured beyond and hasn't even gone back for 30 years. It's not as if we are gallivanting around the galaxy only 40 years after landing on a foreign body. Yet so much else on our planet has changed.

The only thing that bugged me about Prometheus after rewatching it last night was how tough the face shields of the space suits were during the sandstorm and bouncing around the planet trying to outrun the crashing ship, yet how easily they shattered like brittle glass during the fight in the loading dock.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Hey, let's hear it for Coors Light!!!

Coors Light? I'll take New Castle, Lazy Magnolia, and Heineken in that order.

[Darkstream]

It is so obvious that Ridley Scott re-envisioned and revised the concepts and designs of Alien with Prometheus. That's a fact! There should be no debate there. And I'm actually fine with that --- if Ridley wants to make things different, whatever --- but I don't see how anyone can say that there isn't anything that contradicts one movie from the other. I suspect without Dan O'Bannon or H.R. Giger, Ridley decided to take some of the ideas that were introduced to him and used on Alien, and make them more his own thing. Simple as that! Unfortunately, the writing, despite the attempt to be highbrow and intellectual, comes off pretentious and poorly executed.

Like I said, despite the contradictory changes, I think Prometheus was visually beautiful. My biggest issue is with the story and characters. Prometheus had the dumbest crew of scientists played by some of the best actors out there, who were obviously stifled in their roles. I truly believe that Paul W.S. Anderson's Alien vs. Predator and Event Horizon are two very underappreciated films that had better written and portrayed characters than what we see in Prometheus.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

...and Heineken

I used to like Heineken, until I realized how weak of a brew it actually is. It's decent if you want to be able to casually toss back a few without thinking about what you're drinking, but if you're into the taste then there's lots out there that are better.

Come to Portland, Oregon! We have the most microbreweries in the country! Plenty of options out here.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

I used to like Heineken, until I realized how weak of a brew it actually is. It's decent if you want to be able casually to toss back a few without thinking about what you're drinking, but if you're into the taste then there's lots out there that are better.

Come to Portland, Oregon! We have the most microbreweries in the country! Plenty of options out here.

I agree, which is why I drink more of New Castle than anything. You should check out our local MS beer Lazy Magnolia. It's a middle of the road beer that is just right.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I agree, which is why I drink more of New Castle than anything. You should check out our local MS beer Lazy Magnolia. It's a middle of the road beer that is just right.

If I ever see it out here (or are in your vicinity), I'll give it a go. *keeping it on my radar*

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

It is so obvious that Ridley Scott re-envisioned and revised the concepts and designs of Alien with Prometheus. That's a fact! There should be no debate there. And I'm actually fine with that --- if Ridley wants to make things different, whatever --- but I don't see how anyone can say that there isn't anything that contradicts one movie from the other. I suspect without Dan O'Bannon or H.R. Giger, Ridley decided to take some of the ideas that were introduced to him and used on Alien, and make them more his own thing. Simple as that!

H.R. Giger was still involved, he designed the giant relief sculpture below:




He also did some sketches for creature designs, the first of these wasn't used (unfortunately), but the second resemble the "Deacon" at the end and the third resembles the alien worm creatures (I'm not sure if he did these sketches before or after other designers had taken a crack at the things described in the script though, this page seems to say the latter was true in the case of the 'Deacon'):





I got these images from the page at https://prometheusforum.net/discussi...-prometheus/p1 which also shows how a bunch of elements in Prometheus took inspiration from other artwork Giger had done in the past (whether for Alien or unrelated to the movies), like the domes with the Alien-looking heads on top of them (apparently a concept from Jodorowsky's Dune, see here):



That page also shows the following mural Giger had done for the original Alien, suggesting that the original concept for the trunked "Space Jockey" was actually some sort of humanoid wearing a helmet with a tube connected to something like an oxygen tank on the bank, even if it had become less obviously humanoid by the time they designed the finished Space Jockey model:



It seems they may have even filmed a scene in Alien of the crew looking at this mural in the derelict, they show some footage about 30 seconds into this interview with Dan O'Bannon from one of the Alien extras:

Rare deleted Giger Mural scene in Alien. - YouTube

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

H.R. Giger was still involved, he designed the giant relief sculpture below:

For Alien, Giger was involved as a conceptualist, even if not credited as such. He was the original artist/designer of all the visual Alien elements. His early paintings influenced everything else, and then he was hired to rework them for the movie the way he saw fit, taking most cues from Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett's story. Ridley Scott basically directed everything in Alien based around those designs and concepts.

For Prometheus, Giger was brought in after Ridley Scott reconceived the concepts with other designers. Scott basically had Giger rework the ideas the way Scott wanted them this time. Giger had very little input as a conceptualist and was basically just an artist for hire on Prometheus. The designs still drew from Giger's earlier work, but Giger himself was pretty much an afterthought. I'd hate to sound cynical, but I think Scott knew he needed Giger on board to validate everything he wanted to do, and with some respect, he threw Giger a bone by hiring him.

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

For Alien, Giger was involved as a conceptualist, even if not credited as such. He was the original artist/designer of all the visual Alien elements. His early paintings influenced everything else, and then he was hired to rework them for the movie the way he saw fit, taking most cues from Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett's story. Ridley Scott basically directed everything in Alien based around those designs and concepts.s,

For Prometheus, Giger was brought in after Ridley Scott reconceived the concepts with other designers. Scott basically had Giger rework the ideas the way Scott wanted them this time. Giger had very little input as a conceptualist and was basically just an artist for hire on Prometheus. The designs still drew from Giger's earlier work, but Giger himself was pretty much an afterthought. I'd hate to sound cynical, but I think Scott knew he needed Giger on board to validate everything he wanted to do, and with some respect, he threw Giger a bone by hiring him.

This may be true, but how much do you think would have been different if Giger had been doing design at all stages, in terms of the aspects of Prometheus that people have complained about on this thread?

--The various alien creatures might have been a bit more interesting looking, but Alien fans typically aren't saying the creatures designs are inherently bad but rather complaining that they seem too disconnected from the familiar xenomorphs of the original films, and if it was part of Scott's concept that the designs shouldn't be too similar to those of the old films ('the alien himself is too familiar now, it’s no longer frightening'), I'm sure Giger would have been willing to oblige with new designs.

--People have also complained about the notion that the Space Jockey was really a basically human-looking creature in a space suit, but as the mural above shows this is in fact closer to Giger's original design concept, and his art is full of biomechanical beings with very human faces (see the top image here for example) so it seems unlikely he'd have objected to this.

--There have also been complaints about the level of human technology, but Giger was never really involved in that aspect of Alien, that was done mostly by Ron Cobb and Chris Foss and Moebius, see here.

--Finally I've seen few if any complaints about the architecture of the Engineers' complex, and that's already so heavily based on previous Giger designs (from Alien for the interiors, from Jodorowsky's Dune for the exteriors) that, had he been hired to "rework" those existing designs I doubt they would have looked very different.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

People have also complained about the notion that the Space Jockey was really a basically human-looking creature in a space suit, but as the mural above shows this is in fact closer to Giger's original design concept, and his art is full of biomechanical beings with very human faces (see the top image here for example) so it seems unlikely he'd have objected to this.

Seriously. The designs are not as much of a departure as people claim they are. Once again, Geiger's art is highly open to interpretation because of how integrated machine is with organism.

There have also been complaints about the level of human technology, but Giger was never really involved in that aspect of Alien, that was done mostly by Ron Cobb and Chris Foss and Moebius, see here.

I really do not understand these complaints, but if they hate the human tech in ALIEN, they're going to loathe The Forever War if it gets a faithful adaptation.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

This may be true, but how much do you think would have been different if Giger had been doing design at all stages, in terms of the aspects of Prometheus that people have complained about on this thread?

Well, that's not really the point I was trying to make, but rather that I think Ridley Scott worked better as a director following the lead that was established by Dan O'Bannon's script and H.R. Giger's designs, instead of taking the lead as he did in Prometheus and re-envisioning everything his way.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Well, that's not really the point I was trying to make, but rather that I think Ridley Scott worked better as a director following the lead that was established by Dan O'Bannon's script and H.R. Giger's designs, instead of taking the lead as he did in Prometheus and re-envisioning everything his way.

"I really don't know how a lot of this stuff works. I'm really just a systems management man. I say build me a laser this, design me a a molecular analyzer that, and they do and I just stick them together."

-Seth Brundle